Choir

Card Text: +1 stealth action mel: Put this card into play. Burn this card during your influence phase. MEL: (D) Burn X Choir cards you control (not counting this one) to burn 2X pool from your prey's pool. Is it just me or is this card really funky. You may as well not even play 1 unless you have at least 2 in your hand. And why would you ever block the inf action when all you have to do is block the sup action and all the actions pre- ceeding it were just a waste. It seems to me as if the inf version should be doing some thing other than just set up for the subsequent sup version. Sorrow --- If you're frightened of dying and... and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.

In message <u15glei...@corp.supernews.com>, Sorrow <cbo...@apdi.net> writes: >Card Text: >+1 stealth action >mel: Put this card into play. Burn this card during your >influence phase. >MEL: (D) Burn X Choir cards you control (not counting >this one) to burn 2X pool from your prey's pool. > >Is it just me or is this card really funky. You may as well >not even play 1 unless you have at least 2 in your hand. As a possible cycling, it could be useful to just get it out of your hand. It might also draw a few block attempts, so you could possibly throw down a Dawn Operation or something. >And why would you ever block the inf action when all you >have to do is block the sup action and all the actions pre- >ceeding it were just a waste. Well, assuming that you're playing an intercept deck and so want to bash a vampire in every now and then, you might not be able to take out an annoying vampire if she's the one doing the inferior version. Context is important. -- James Coupe PGP 0x5D623D5D It's been a long road, getting from there to here EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA213D7E It's been a long time, and my time is finally near 668C3695D623D5D I will see my dream come alive at last, I will touch the sky And they're not gonna hold me down no more, no they're not gonna change my mind

Sorrow wrote: > [Re: Choir] > And why would you ever block the inf action when all you > have to do is block the sup action and all the actions pre- > ceeding it were just a waste. Some DoC have Fortitude, which could mean it will be hard to block that final sup action. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

On Sat, 8 Dec 2001 19:46:40 -0800, "Sorrow" <cbo...@apdi.net> wrote: >Is it just me or is this card really funky. You may as well >not even play 1 unless you have at least 2 in your hand. I welcome any new ways to reduce pool. If you build a weenie Choir deck, it cannot be bounced or reduced. Save your Day Op for the last Choir at superior. It's not as easy as bleeding, nor should it be. But it is a viable alternative, much like Enticement is, to give Auspex and Dominate the finger.

Sorrow <cbo...@apdi.net> wrote: > Card Text: > +1 stealth action > mel: Put this card into play. Burn this card during your > influence phase. > MEL: (D) Burn X Choir cards you control (not counting > this one) to burn 2X pool from your prey's pool. > Is it just me or is this card really funky. You may as well > not even play 1 unless you have at least 2 in your hand. > And why would you ever block the inf action when all you > have to do is block the sup action and all the actions pre- > ceeding it were just a waste. > It seems to me as if the inf version should be doing some > thing other than just set up for the subsequent sup version. You can use Choir to psyche your opponent out. If you play inferior Choirs, your prey won't block them. No reason to, and they can save a blocker for the "trigger" Choir. So as long as theyre saving a blocker, you can perform other, less-threatening-yet-still-damaging actions, til you've gotten another one or two of them in your hand, or you just let it fizzle and laugh that your prey declined to block your bleed for 3 in fear of a Choir for 4. :)

"Sorrow" <cbo...@apdi.net> wrote in message news:u15glei...@corp.supernews.com... > Card Text: > +1 stealth action > mel: Put this card into play. Burn this card during your > influence phase. > MEL: (D) Burn X Choir cards you control (not counting > this one) to burn 2X pool from your prey's pool. > > Is it just me or is this card really funky. You may as well > not even play 1 unless you have at least 2 in your hand. > And why would you ever block the inf action when all you > have to do is block the sup action and all the actions pre- > ceeding it were just a waste. > It seems to me as if the inf version should be doing some > thing other than just set up for the subsequent sup version. A bit tricky to use since it's only at +1 stealth and like you said you only need to block the SUP to stop it having it's desired effect. Fotrunately for a Choir using deck all the daughters are quite small so getting a lot of them out shouldn't be too hard. Since the daughters have Fortitude, ignoring the inf actions can be dangerous. Imagine how your prey would feel being on 6 pool and lets you get 3 inf Choirs out only to have the SUP choir action taken with a Day Op. Oh dear, you can't block that, or bounce it, or reduce it or Archon Investigate it. Thank you, come again. :) Oh yeah, works well with Protected Resources too. I'm envisaging a Toreador/Daughters Choir/Tele Counter/Protected Resources/Day Op deck.

> I welcome any new ways to reduce pool. If you build a weenie Choir > deck, How can you build a weenie Choir deck with only 3 weenies and 1 mid cap? Treble (pun intended :p) the vamps in your crypt? And if you do use alot of Choirs but don't draw any Daughters? Your SoL cuz they aren't burnable like the clan cards are. It just seems like it should do something else. Like put it into play OR do 1x for each already in play, either or. SUP: As above but for 2x. > it cannot be bounced or reduced. Save your Day Op for the last > Choir at superior. Still, you can do just as well using regular bleed actions and not have to worry about whether or not you have enough to put into play to make them actually usable. [ quoted text not captured ]

> > And why would you ever block the inf action when all you > > have to do is block the sup action and all the actions pre- > > ceeding it were just a waste. > Some DoC have Fortitude, which could mean it will be hard to > block that final sup action. At significant cost. Sorrow --- "I am Jack's wasted life." - Narrator

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3C12C6F1...@white-wolf.com... > Some DoC have Fortitude, which could mean it will be hard to > block that final sup action. Two Words... Dee Eye. oAFLORD

On Sat, 8 Dec 2001 21:17:04 -0800, "Sorrow" <cbo...@apdi.net> wrote: >> I welcome any new ways to reduce pool. If you build a weenie Choir >> deck, > >How can you build a weenie Choir deck with only 3 weenies and 1 mid >cap? ??? Embrace and Sanguinous Instruction (3 DoC have superior Mel). I figured you of all people would recognize that option ;-) >> it cannot be bounced or reduced. Save your Day Op for the last >> Choir at superior. > >Still, you can do just as well using regular bleed actions and not have >to worry about whether or not you have enough to put into play to >make them actually usable. Play with 30-35 Choirs, 10 Embraces, 6-8 Day Op/Daring Dawn, 10 Sang Instr, 8-10 Freak Drive, and whatever else toolbox you want to add, and you can hit for a lot of pool damage that Bleed defenses are useless against. With weenies embracing on turn 2, you should be rolling for 6+ pool damage by turn 4. Sure it's fragile with no defenses, but you might oust your prey before you get ousted. If you could Deflect a Choir, or Telepathic Counter a Choir, I would agree with you. However knowing how much bleed defense goes into decks nowadays, being able to devise a strategy that jams their hand while pounding my prey is not something I'm gonna ignore. Ethan Burrow - Prince of Austin saa...@yahoo.com http://whitestar.ddg.com/vtes/

In message <mJBQ7.1021$fg7....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>, "oaflord" <oaf...@sprint.ca> mumbled something about: [ quoted text not captured ] Major-league corner-case. I don't consider DI a suitable defense against ANY strategy, because it revolves solely around getting the DI in your hand and having the master phase actions to spare saving your own butt. In other words: sure, it's possible to stand there and say "I'll just DI it...", but when it comes down to it in a game, the DI won't be there. -- Derek ...Vampire Squirrel has come to bite your nuts!

"oaflord" <oaf...@sprint.ca> wrote in message news:mJBQ7.1021$fg7....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca... [ quoted text not captured ] In which case I'll just use another Day Op or Choir ( since the deck is based on it the chances of having another are pretty good ). DI doesn't solve anything, in most cases it only puts off the inevitable.

"Sorrow" <cbo...@apdi.net> wrote in message news:u15m0he...@corp.supernews.com... > > > And why would you ever block the inf action when all you > > > have to do is block the sup action and all the actions pre- > > > ceeding it were just a waste. > > Some DoC have Fortitude, which could mean it will be hard to > > block that final sup action. > > At significant cost. Sure, but I'd let a minion go to torpor for a guaranteed 4-6 pool loss, esp if it ousts my prey.

In message <u16aodb...@news.supernews.com>, GreySeer <e...@i.think.not> writes: >> Two Words... Dee Eye. > >In which case I'll just use another Day Op or Choir ( since the deck is >based on it the chances of having another are pretty good ). You'd already played Day Op (presumably). No Repeat Action Modifiers prevents you from playing a second. (DI doesn't remove its being played from history, the card just has no effect.) You could just as easily play a Daring the Dawn, however. [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <u15m0he...@corp.supernews.com>, Sorrow <cbo...@apdi.net> writes: >> Some DoC have Fortitude, which could mean it will be hard to >> block that final sup action. > >At significant cost. What's wrong with that? Another player holds all their intercept/combat until you play the superior version. You play Day Op. This seems fine. Next time, they have to think about how to get around this with careful timing and guessing. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Sat, 8 Dec 2001 19:46:40 -0800, "Sorrow" <cbo...@apdi.net> wrote: >Card Text: >+1 stealth action >mel: Put this card into play. Burn this card during your >influence phase. >MEL: (D) Burn X Choir cards you control (not counting >this one) to burn 2X pool from your prey's pool. > >Is it just me or is this card really funky. You may as well >not even play 1 unless you have at least 2 in your hand. >And why would you ever block the inf action when all you >have to do is block the sup action and all the actions pre- >ceeding it were just a waste. The big difference I see is that superior choir is directed, and inferior choir isn't. So if you're the predator of the choir deck, you can attempt to block the inferior choirs without resorting to special block effects. By the same token, Creepshow Casino is eligible for inferior Choir. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! ==-----

saa...@yahoo.com (Ethan Burrow) wrote in message news:<3c12e9ad....@news-server.austin.rr.com>... > On Sat, 8 Dec 2001 21:17:04 -0800, "Sorrow" <cbo...@apdi.net> wrote: > > >> I welcome any new ways to reduce pool. If you build a weenie Choir > >> deck, > > > >How can you build a weenie Choir deck with only 3 weenies and 1 mid > >cap? > > ??? Embrace and Sanguinous Instruction (3 DoC have superior Mel). I > figured you of all people would recognize that option ;-) > > >> it cannot be bounced or reduced. Save your Day Op for the last > >> Choir at superior. > > > >Still, you can do just as well using regular bleed actions and not have > >to worry about whether or not you have enough to put into play to > >make them actually usable. > > Play with 30-35 Choirs, 10 Embraces, 6-8 Day Op/Daring Dawn, 10 Sang > Instr, 8-10 Freak Drive, and whatever else toolbox you want to add, > and you can hit for a lot of pool damage that Bleed defenses are > useless against. With weenies embracing on turn 2, you should be > rolling for 6+ pool damage by turn 4. Sure it's fragile with no > defenses, but you might oust your prey before you get ousted. > I was thinking along the same lines. But you can add bleed defence: Archon investigation and Protected resources. And of course gain pood with Concert tour - Minion Tap. Actually, I had a different trick deck in mind, but somehow misread the cards. I really thought that Leandro's special said that you have to pay one or lose your influence phase. That would've made it possible to keep all your inferior Choirs in play. But Leandro's special says you lose all transfers, not the phase :-( Jeroen

> I was thinking along the same lines. But you can add bleed defence: > Archon investigation and Protected resources. And of course gain pood No you can't. Choir isn't a bleed action; it's a "burn pool" action, so AI and PR don't apply, as well as Telepathic Counter as others of the same make. Frederic.

"Frederic Genest" <gen...@iname.com> wrote in message news:703899b7.01121...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] I think what he meant was that since you're pool defense as the person doing the Choiring is AI & PR because you're not bleeding.