rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

[Jyhad, Tom preferably]: Mask 1000 & Deflection

34 messages from 9 participants · 15 November 1994 – 27 November 1994 · rec.games.deckmaster
source archive

William Bock

Howdy: My predator decides to bleed me. I don't block, so he plays a superior Conditioning (+3 Bleed), Mask of 1000 Faces with another vampire, and another superior Conditioning. Is this legal? I hope so, since I want to be the predator who does this. After the second Conditioning, could I, as the prey, play a Deflection and have the 7 bleed go on _my_ prey (if I so chose)? I wasn't sure, since I do know that I can no longer block (since that decision is irreversible), but what about a simple little reaction card? Thanks, Bill /----------------------------------------------------\ | wbock@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu | | "Gotta have a friend in Jesus." - Norman Greenbaum | \----------------------------------------------------/

William Bock

Howdy: My predator decides to bleed me. I don't block, so he plays a superior Conditioning (+3 Bleed), Mask of 1000 Faces with another vampire, and another superior Conditioning. Is this legal? I hope so, since I want to be the predator who does this. After the second Conditioning, could I, as the prey, play a Deflection and have the 7 bleed go on _my_ prey (if I so chose)? I wasn't sure, since I do know that I can no longer block (since that decision is irreversible), but what about a simple little reaction card? Thanks, Bill /----------------------------------------------------\ | wbock@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu | | "Gotta have a friend in Jesus." - Norman Greenbaum | \----------------------------------------------------/

matthews@utdallas.edu

William Bock (wbock@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu) wrote: > My predator decides to bleed me. I don't block, so he plays a superior > Conditioning (+3 Bleed), Mask of 1000 Faces with another vampire, and > another superior Conditioning. Is this legal? I hope so, since I > want to be the predator who does this. I think the ruling is no. (thank g*d). It's still the same action (even with another vampire) so you can't use two threat/bond/conditioning. > After the second Conditioning, could I, as the prey, play a Deflection > and have the 7 bleed go on _my_ prey (if I so chose)? I wasn't sure, > since I do know that I can no longer block (since that decision is > irreversible), but what about a simple little reaction card? That would be fine. It's really nice when you can deflect a large bleed and oust your prey, courtesy of your predator. -ben -- "I've seen things you wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tann- hauser gate. All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain."

matthews@utdallas.edu

William Bock (wbock@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu) wrote: > My predator decides to bleed me. I don't block, so he plays a superior > Conditioning (+3 Bleed), Mask of 1000 Faces with another vampire, and > another superior Conditioning. Is this legal? I hope so, since I > want to be the predator who does this. I think the ruling is no. (thank g*d). It's still the same action (even with another vampire) so you can't use two threat/bond/conditioning. > After the second Conditioning, could I, as the prey, play a Deflection > and have the 7 bleed go on _my_ prey (if I so chose)? I wasn't sure, > since I do know that I can no longer block (since that decision is > irreversible), but what about a simple little reaction card? That would be fine. It's really nice when you can deflect a large bleed and oust your prey, courtesy of your predator. -ben -- "I've seen things you wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tann- hauser gate. All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain."

Tom Wylie

William Bock <wbock@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu> wrote: > My predator decides to bleed me. I don't block, so he plays a superior > Conditioning (+3 Bleed), Mask of 1000 Faces with another vampire, and > another superior Conditioning. Is this legal? I hope so, since I > want to be the predator who does this. As far as I know it is possible for both minions to use the same action modifier. This is on the list of questions sent to the design team, and hasn't been answered yet. > After the second Conditioning, could I, as the prey, play a Deflection > and have the 7 bleed go on _my_ prey (if I so chose)?... Sure. Just because you don't block, doesn't mean you can't react. Note that using Deflection will give the new player a chance to block, even if the time for blocking has otherwise passed (card text). Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Tom Wylie

William Bock <wbock@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu> wrote: > My predator decides to bleed me. I don't block, so he plays a superior > Conditioning (+3 Bleed), Mask of 1000 Faces with another vampire, and > another superior Conditioning. Is this legal? I hope so, since I > want to be the predator who does this. As far as I know it is possible for both minions to use the same action modifier. This is on the list of questions sent to the design team, and hasn't been answered yet. > After the second Conditioning, could I, as the prey, play a Deflection > and have the 7 bleed go on _my_ prey (if I so chose)?... Sure. Just because you don't block, doesn't mean you can't react. Note that using Deflection will give the new player a chance to block, even if the time for blocking has otherwise passed (card text). Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Joe Cochran

In article <3ab7ta$9nf@perv.hal.COM>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote: >William Bock <wbock@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu> wrote: >> My predator decides to bleed me. I don't block, so he plays a superior >> Conditioning (+3 Bleed), Mask of 1000 Faces with another vampire, and >> another superior Conditioning. Is this legal? I hope so, since I >> want to be the predator who does this. > >As far as I know it is possible for both minions to use the same >action modifier. This is on the list of questions sent to the design >team, and hasn't been answered yet. > Actually, Beth has noted that while the new minion can (we think) use the same mod., Mask specifically states that the same action continues where it left off, and so the Bonding/Conditioning/Threats clause means that the new minion can't use that modifier since it's already been used on that action, even though it was a different minion. | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | jsciv@vt.edu | ** csipga@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK

Joe Cochran

In article <3ab7ta$9nf@perv.hal.COM>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote: >William Bock <wbock@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu> wrote: >> My predator decides to bleed me. I don't block, so he plays a superior >> Conditioning (+3 Bleed), Mask of 1000 Faces with another vampire, and >> another superior Conditioning. Is this legal? I hope so, since I >> want to be the predator who does this. > >As far as I know it is possible for both minions to use the same >action modifier. This is on the list of questions sent to the design >team, and hasn't been answered yet. > Actually, Beth has noted that while the new minion can (we think) use the same mod., Mask specifically states that the same action continues where it left off, and so the Bonding/Conditioning/Threats clause means that the new minion can't use that modifier since it's already been used on that action, even though it was a different minion. | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | jsciv@vt.edu | ** csipga@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK

Tom Wylie

Joe Cochran <jsciv@megavolt.cc.vt.edu> wrote: >Actually, Beth has noted that while the new minion can (we think) use >the same mod., Mask specifically states that the same action continues >where it left off, and so the Bonding/Conditioning/Threats clause means >that the new minion can't use that modifier since it's already been used >on that action, even though it was a different minion. Note that the rulebook says: "The same action modifier card type cannot be used twice by a minion during the same action." I'm interpreting "a minion" to mean "any given minion", i.e., different minions could use the same modifier if they wanted. For example, it has been ruled that multiple minions may each modify an action via superior Cloak the Gathering. Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Tom Wylie

Joe Cochran <jsciv@megavolt.cc.vt.edu> wrote: >Actually, Beth has noted that while the new minion can (we think) use >the same mod., Mask specifically states that the same action continues >where it left off, and so the Bonding/Conditioning/Threats clause means >that the new minion can't use that modifier since it's already been used >on that action, even though it was a different minion. Note that the rulebook says: "The same action modifier card type cannot be used twice by a minion during the same action." I'm interpreting "a minion" to mean "any given minion", i.e., different minions could use the same modifier if they wanted. For example, it has been ruled that multiple minions may each modify an action via superior Cloak the Gathering. Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Paul Jensen

William Bock (wbock@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu) wrote: : Howdy: : My predator decides to bleed me. I don't block, so he plays a superior : Conditioning (+3 Bleed), Mask of 1000 Faces with another vampire, and : another superior Conditioning. Is this legal? I hope so, since I : want to be the predator who does this. I would have to say I don't think this is legal. Only *one* of any kind of action modifier on any *single* action. Technically speaking I would consider this only *one* action. I would say this is confirmed with the decision that if a minion takes over with Mask of K Faces he can complete the action *even* if the action was started by a library card with a discipline the masking minion does not posses. This is clearly only *one* action (you think I have said that enough) and hence only one of any kind of action modifier can be applied (as well as abiding by the only one Bonding, Conditioning or Threats) card. : After the second Conditioning, could I, as the prey, play a Deflection : and have the 7 bleed go on _my_ prey (if I so chose)? I wasn't sure, : since I do know that I can no longer block (since that decision is : irreversible), but what about a simple little reaction card? I would say that a reaction card is perfectly legal to play, even if you have already forfieted your chance to block. (This is dosn't mean that I think you could play a reaction card that, say untaps a minion so that he can block, at this point all blocking is out and only reactions that don't need a block to be effective should be allowed). : Thanks, : Bill : /----------------------------------------------------\ : | wbock@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu | : | "Gotta have a friend in Jesus." - Norman Greenbaum | : \----------------------------------------------------/ - No Problem, Paul - /===================================================\ | Paul Jensen | | pjensen@orion.it.luc.edu | | Chicago, IL | +---------------------------------------------------+ | Good advertising space for rent | | (It must be pretty good YOU just read it) | \===================================================/

Paul Jensen

William Bock (wbock@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu) wrote: : Howdy: : My predator decides to bleed me. I don't block, so he plays a superior : Conditioning (+3 Bleed), Mask of 1000 Faces with another vampire, and : another superior Conditioning. Is this legal? I hope so, since I : want to be the predator who does this. I would have to say I don't think this is legal. Only *one* of any kind of action modifier on any *single* action. Technically speaking I would consider this only *one* action. I would say this is confirmed with the decision that if a minion takes over with Mask of K Faces he can complete the action *even* if the action was started by a library card with a discipline the masking minion does not posses. This is clearly only *one* action (you think I have said that enough) and hence only one of any kind of action modifier can be applied (as well as abiding by the only one Bonding, Conditioning or Threats) card. : After the second Conditioning, could I, as the prey, play a Deflection : and have the 7 bleed go on _my_ prey (if I so chose)? I wasn't sure, : since I do know that I can no longer block (since that decision is : irreversible), but what about a simple little reaction card? I would say that a reaction card is perfectly legal to play, even if you have already forfieted your chance to block. (This is dosn't mean that I think you could play a reaction card that, say untaps a minion so that he can block, at this point all blocking is out and only reactions that don't need a block to be effective should be allowed). : Thanks, : Bill : /----------------------------------------------------\ : | wbock@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu | : | "Gotta have a friend in Jesus." - Norman Greenbaum | : \----------------------------------------------------/ - No Problem, Paul - /===================================================\ | Paul Jensen | | pjensen@orion.it.luc.edu | | Chicago, IL | +---------------------------------------------------+ | Good advertising space for rent | | (It must be pretty good YOU just read it) | \===================================================/

Christopher Clark

In article <3abi17$c3f@perv.hal.COM> aahz@hal.COM (Tom Wylie) writes: Joe Cochran <jsciv@megavolt.cc.vt.edu> wrote: >Actually, Beth has noted that while the new minion can (we think) use >the same mod., Mask specifically states that the same action continues >where it left off, and so the Bonding/Conditioning/Threats clause means >that the new minion can't use that modifier since it's already been used >on that action, even though it was a different minion. Note that the rulebook says: "The same action modifier card type cannot be used twice by a minion during the same action." I'm interpreting "a minion" to mean "any given minion", i.e., different minions could use the same modifier if they wanted. For example, it has been ruled that multiple minions may each modify an action via superior Cloak the Gathering. Of course, you shouldn't forget that Bonding/Conditioning/Threats all EXPLICITLY say that you cannot use more that one of them in a given action. It doesn't say a minion cannot use more than one, it says that more than one cannot be used. -- Chris Clark -- @>-`--,-- @>-`--,-- @>-`--,-- @>-`--,-- @>-`--,-- @>-`--,-- -- Chris Clark "Claudia, you've been a very...very...naughty...little...girl." -Lestat

Christopher Clark

In article <3abi17$c3f@perv.hal.COM> aahz@hal.COM (Tom Wylie) writes: Joe Cochran <jsciv@megavolt.cc.vt.edu> wrote: >Actually, Beth has noted that while the new minion can (we think) use >the same mod., Mask specifically states that the same action continues >where it left off, and so the Bonding/Conditioning/Threats clause means >that the new minion can't use that modifier since it's already been used >on that action, even though it was a different minion. Note that the rulebook says: "The same action modifier card type cannot be used twice by a minion during the same action." I'm interpreting "a minion" to mean "any given minion", i.e., different minions could use the same modifier if they wanted. For example, it has been ruled that multiple minions may each modify an action via superior Cloak the Gathering. Of course, you shouldn't forget that Bonding/Conditioning/Threats all EXPLICITLY say that you cannot use more that one of them in a given action. It doesn't say a minion cannot use more than one, it says that more than one cannot be used. -- Chris Clark -- @>-`--,-- @>-`--,-- @>-`--,-- @>-`--,-- @>-`--,-- @>-`--,-- -- Chris Clark "Claudia, you've been a very...very...naughty...little...girl." -Lestat

Joe Cochran

In article <3abi17$c3f@perv.hal.COM>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote: >Note that the rulebook says: "The same action modifier card type cannot >be used twice by a minion during the same action." I'm interpreting >"a minion" to mean "any given minion", i.e., different minions could use >the same modifier if they wanted. For example, it has been ruled that >multiple minions may each modify an action via superior Cloak the Gathering. > Yes, I agree with you 100% on that. Bonding/Conditioning/Threats, however, says that no more than one of them may be used on any one *action*, and Mask states that the *same* action continues, so if B/C/T has been used, the clause still applies. The new minion, while able to use Lost in Crowds even if the other guy used it, cannot use B/C/T if the other guy used it, since it's already been used on that action. | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | jsciv@vt.edu | ** csipga@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK

Joe Cochran

In article <3abi17$c3f@perv.hal.COM>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote: >Note that the rulebook says: "The same action modifier card type cannot >be used twice by a minion during the same action." I'm interpreting >"a minion" to mean "any given minion", i.e., different minions could use >the same modifier if they wanted. For example, it has been ruled that >multiple minions may each modify an action via superior Cloak the Gathering. > Yes, I agree with you 100% on that. Bonding/Conditioning/Threats, however, says that no more than one of them may be used on any one *action*, and Mask states that the *same* action continues, so if B/C/T has been used, the clause still applies. The new minion, while able to use Lost in Crowds even if the other guy used it, cannot use B/C/T if the other guy used it, since it's already been used on that action. | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | jsciv@vt.edu | ** csipga@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK

Tom Wylie

Joe Cochran <jsciv@megavolt.cc.vt.edu> wrote: >>Note that the rulebook says: "The same action modifier card type cannot >>be used twice by a minion during the same action." I'm interpreting >>"a minion" to mean "any given minion", i.e., different minions could use >>the same modifier if they wanted. For example, it has been ruled that >>multiple minions may each modify an action via superior Cloak the Gathering. >Yes, I agree with you 100% on that. Bonding/Conditioning/Threats, >however, says that no more than one of them may be used on any one *action*... And I'm interpreting that to mean that if you, for example, play Bonding to modify an action, then Conditioning or Threats may not be used on that action, but there's nothing stopping you from playing another Bonding if you can manage it somehow (such as with the Mask). We'll see if the design team agrees. Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Tom Wylie

Joe Cochran <jsciv@megavolt.cc.vt.edu> wrote: >>Note that the rulebook says: "The same action modifier card type cannot >>be used twice by a minion during the same action." I'm interpreting >>"a minion" to mean "any given minion", i.e., different minions could use >>the same modifier if they wanted. For example, it has been ruled that >>multiple minions may each modify an action via superior Cloak the Gathering. >Yes, I agree with you 100% on that. Bonding/Conditioning/Threats, >however, says that no more than one of them may be used on any one *action*... And I'm interpreting that to mean that if you, for example, play Bonding to modify an action, then Conditioning or Threats may not be used on that action, but there's nothing stopping you from playing another Bonding if you can manage it somehow (such as with the Mask). We'll see if the design team agrees. Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Joe Cochran

In article <3adoq5$gia@perv.hal.COM>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote: >>Yes, I agree with you 100% on that. Bonding/Conditioning/Threats, >>however, says that no more than one of them may be used on any one *action*... > >And I'm interpreting that to mean that if you, for example, play Bonding >to modify an action, then Conditioning or Threats may not be used on that >action, but there's nothing stopping you from playing another Bonding if you >can manage it somehow (such as with the Mask). We'll see if the >design team agrees. > Oh, I see what you're saying! You're saying that the phrase means that only one [type] of Bonding/Conditioning/Threats can be used on any one action. I'm saying that only one [modifier] of B/C/T can be used, which is the impression that I got from the jyhad-l list. I can see where you'd want a rules team ruling on that. Gotcha! | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | jsciv@vt.edu | ** csipga@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK

Joe Cochran

In article <3adoq5$gia@perv.hal.COM>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote: >>Yes, I agree with you 100% on that. Bonding/Conditioning/Threats, >>however, says that no more than one of them may be used on any one *action*... > >And I'm interpreting that to mean that if you, for example, play Bonding >to modify an action, then Conditioning or Threats may not be used on that >action, but there's nothing stopping you from playing another Bonding if you >can manage it somehow (such as with the Mask). We'll see if the >design team agrees. > Oh, I see what you're saying! You're saying that the phrase means that only one [type] of Bonding/Conditioning/Threats can be used on any one action. I'm saying that only one [modifier] of B/C/T can be used, which is the impression that I got from the jyhad-l list. I can see where you'd want a rules team ruling on that. Gotcha! | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | jsciv@vt.edu | ** csipga@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK

dave@rain.org

Tom Wylie (aahz@hal.COM) wrote: > Joe Cochran <jsciv@megavolt.cc.vt.edu> wrote: > >Actually, Beth has noted that while the new minion can (we think) use > >the same mod., Mask specifically states that the same action continues > >where it left off, and so the Bonding/Conditioning/Threats clause means > >that the new minion can't use that modifier since it's already been used > >on that action, even though it was a different minion. > Note that the rulebook says: "The same action modifier card type cannot > be used twice by a minion during the same action." I'm interpreting > "a minion" to mean "any given minion", i.e., different minions could use > the same modifier if they wanted. For example, it has been ruled that > multiple minions may each modify an action via superior Cloak the Gathering. Yes but remember that only ONE of bonding, conditioning, or threats may be played in the *same action*. Unfortunately this means that mask can only really be used to add vampire's special +1 bleed to any combo that already includes conditioning.

dave@rain.org

Tom Wylie (aahz@hal.COM) wrote: > Joe Cochran <jsciv@megavolt.cc.vt.edu> wrote: > >Actually, Beth has noted that while the new minion can (we think) use > >the same mod., Mask specifically states that the same action continues > >where it left off, and so the Bonding/Conditioning/Threats clause means > >that the new minion can't use that modifier since it's already been used > >on that action, even though it was a different minion. > Note that the rulebook says: "The same action modifier card type cannot > be used twice by a minion during the same action." I'm interpreting > "a minion" to mean "any given minion", i.e., different minions could use > the same modifier if they wanted. For example, it has been ruled that > multiple minions may each modify an action via superior Cloak the Gathering. Yes but remember that only ONE of bonding, conditioning, or threats may be played in the *same action*. Unfortunately this means that mask can only really be used to add vampire's special +1 bleed to any combo that already includes conditioning.

Anonymous Fan Mailers

: >And I'm interpreting that to mean that if you, for example, play Bonding : >to modify an action, then Conditioning or Threats may not be used on that Can bonding be used to modify an action other than a bleed? i.e. Could I call a vote and use the superior version of bonding to give it +1 stealth? -- Corris Cook & /\ Alex Robinson .................../....\..................................... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ /~~~~~~~;\::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: *RUSH* rocks /___________\;;;;;;<dIRE sTRAITS is the wAY>;;;

Anonymous Fan Mailers

: >And I'm interpreting that to mean that if you, for example, play Bonding : >to modify an action, then Conditioning or Threats may not be used on that Can bonding be used to modify an action other than a bleed? i.e. Could I call a vote and use the superior version of bonding to give it +1 stealth? -- Corris Cook & /\ Alex Robinson .................../....\..................................... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ /~~~~~~~;\::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: *RUSH* rocks /___________\;;;;;;<dIRE sTRAITS is the wAY>;;;

Brian Wilson

Before I could do anything to stop it, Anonymous Fan Mailers wrote: > Can bonding be used to modify an action other than a bleed? i.e. Could I > call a vote and use the superior version of bonding to give it +1 stealth? No. -- He did not wear his scarlet cloat, | a-Henh! For blood and wine are red, | Brian Wilson And blood and wine were on his hands | When they found him with the dead. | | Oscar Wilde |

Brian Wilson

Before I could do anything to stop it, Anonymous Fan Mailers wrote: > Can bonding be used to modify an action other than a bleed? i.e. Could I > call a vote and use the superior version of bonding to give it +1 stealth? No. -- He did not wear his scarlet cloat, | a-Henh! For blood and wine are red, | Brian Wilson And blood and wine were on his hands | When they found him with the dead. | | Oscar Wilde |

Brian Wilson

On Sat, 26 Nov 1994, Marissa Camacho wrote: > Why can't bonding be used to alter a non-bleed action? It is an action > modifier, and I do not beleive that WotC has released any erratta saying that > Bonding can only be used on bleed actions. > > The Card Reads: > +1 bleed and +1 stealth blah... blah... blah... > > Nowhere on the card does it state... May only be used on bleed actions. > Could we have Tom check this one over? Well, it *does* say +1 BLEED. How much more explicit can it get?

Brian Wilson

On Sat, 26 Nov 1994, Marissa Camacho wrote: > Why can't bonding be used to alter a non-bleed action? It is an action > modifier, and I do not beleive that WotC has released any erratta saying that > Bonding can only be used on bleed actions. > > The Card Reads: > +1 bleed and +1 stealth blah... blah... blah... > > Nowhere on the card does it state... May only be used on bleed actions. > Could we have Tom check this one over? Well, it *does* say +1 BLEED. How much more explicit can it get?

Brian Wilson

On Sat, 26 Nov 1994, Marissa Camacho wrote: > You didn't even answer the question. Yes, the card does say +1 bleed, but > there is nothing in the rules or on the card which states that Bonding must be > used on a bleed action. The card is an action modifier with a legitimate > target, an therefore should be able to be used on a non-bleed action. If my > interpretation is wrong, then it should be posted as either card-erratta, or as > a revision in the rules. But as it stands now, Bonding should be able to be > used for either bleed, stealth, or both. Play it how you want it, Marissa. Bend the rules any way you want. Try to play it that way at my table and it won't wash. But if it plays at your table, more power to you. Call WotC and ask them. I don't see where it needs errata, since it reads quite clearly to me (why else would it tell you that you can't play it with Threats or Conditioning if it wasn't a Bleed modifier?), but for some people everything must be spelled out. Hey, have fun. Brian

Brian Wilson

On Sat, 26 Nov 1994, Marissa Camacho wrote: > You didn't even answer the question. Yes, the card does say +1 bleed, but > there is nothing in the rules or on the card which states that Bonding must be > used on a bleed action. The card is an action modifier with a legitimate > target, an therefore should be able to be used on a non-bleed action. If my > interpretation is wrong, then it should be posted as either card-erratta, or as > a revision in the rules. But as it stands now, Bonding should be able to be > used for either bleed, stealth, or both. Play it how you want it, Marissa. Bend the rules any way you want. Try to play it that way at my table and it won't wash. But if it plays at your table, more power to you. Call WotC and ask them. I don't see where it needs errata, since it reads quite clearly to me (why else would it tell you that you can't play it with Threats or Conditioning if it wasn't a Bleed modifier?), but for some people everything must be spelled out. Hey, have fun. Brian

Brian Wilson

On Sat, 26 Nov 1994, Marissa Camacho wrote: > Excuse me BRIAN, but there's no reason to be a prick about a hazy part of the > rules. If the rules are so clear to you then why don't you enlighten us a > little? Where in the rules, errata, or on the cards does it ever specify what > action cards (or actions) a particular action modifier can be used with? Yes, > Bonding cannot be used with Conditioning or Threats, but that it to prevent > MEGA bleeds from a Conditioning/Threats/Bonding combo, not because it is a > specific bleed card. Don't mistake your perception of the rules for what the > rules actually are. Action modifiers alter actions, regardless of what they > are. You can use Lost in Crowds whether you are bleeding, equiping, hunting, > or visiting in torpor. Why then , can you not use Bonding in a similar > situation? So what is you don't need the +1 bleed? You still should get the > stealth from the card. Play it how you want it. > If WotC disagrees with this reading of the rules, then they should post so. > But if Bonding can only be used with bleed actions, then it should be treated > as errata, as there is no place in any of the rules which states otherwise. Play it how you want it. > And as for playing at YOUR TABLE, oh great professor of Jyhad common sense.... > I wouldn't stoop so low. I tend to expect a little higher level of respect > and consideration between players. Don't talk down to other players, it does > nothing but make you look like a particular four-legged pack animal. Cool. > Just a bit of real life common sense, mi amigo. > (by the by, the person who posted the message you decided to burn wasn't > Marissa; my name's David, so if you're going to condescend, atleast use my > name.) Sorry, David. > ;-) Oh, thanks for the smiley. :) Brian

Brian Wilson

On Sat, 26 Nov 1994, Marissa Camacho wrote: > Excuse me BRIAN, but there's no reason to be a prick about a hazy part of the > rules. If the rules are so clear to you then why don't you enlighten us a > little? Where in the rules, errata, or on the cards does it ever specify what > action cards (or actions) a particular action modifier can be used with? Yes, > Bonding cannot be used with Conditioning or Threats, but that it to prevent > MEGA bleeds from a Conditioning/Threats/Bonding combo, not because it is a > specific bleed card. Don't mistake your perception of the rules for what the > rules actually are. Action modifiers alter actions, regardless of what they > are. You can use Lost in Crowds whether you are bleeding, equiping, hunting, > or visiting in torpor. Why then , can you not use Bonding in a similar > situation? So what is you don't need the +1 bleed? You still should get the > stealth from the card. Play it how you want it. > If WotC disagrees with this reading of the rules, then they should post so. > But if Bonding can only be used with bleed actions, then it should be treated > as errata, as there is no place in any of the rules which states otherwise. Play it how you want it. > And as for playing at YOUR TABLE, oh great professor of Jyhad common sense.... > I wouldn't stoop so low. I tend to expect a little higher level of respect > and consideration between players. Don't talk down to other players, it does > nothing but make you look like a particular four-legged pack animal. Cool. > Just a bit of real life common sense, mi amigo. > (by the by, the person who posted the message you decided to burn wasn't > Marissa; my name's David, so if you're going to condescend, atleast use my > name.) Sorry, David. > ;-) Oh, thanks for the smiley. :) Brian

Joe Cochran

>> Why can't bonding be used to alter a non-bleed action? It is an action >> modifier, and I do not beleive that WotC has released any erratta saying that >> Bonding can only be used on bleed actions. >> >> Nowhere on the card does it state... May only be used on bleed actions. >> Could we have Tom check this one over? Actually, one of the last rulings I read from Tom before he left for the holiday is that an action modifier must directly apply to the action it is modifying, so you can't use a bleed modifier on a non-bleed action. | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | jsciv@vt.edu | ** csipga@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK

Joe Cochran

>> Why can't bonding be used to alter a non-bleed action? It is an action >> modifier, and I do not beleive that WotC has released any erratta saying that >> Bonding can only be used on bleed actions. >> >> Nowhere on the card does it state... May only be used on bleed actions. >> Could we have Tom check this one over? Actually, one of the last rulings I read from Tom before he left for the holiday is that an action modifier must directly apply to the action it is modifying, so you can't use a bleed modifier on a non-bleed action. | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | jsciv@vt.edu | ** csipga@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK