rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

New Preview - Osebo

28 messages from 15 participants · 06 October 2005 – 08 October 2005
original thread on Google Groups

pallando

The second preview is up: Massassi, 9, Osebo, AUS CEL obf POT QUI, group 4 Laibon: Massassi can enter combat with a ready vampire as a D-action. If that action is successful, she gats an additional maneuve in the first round of the resulting combat. regards pallando --------------- pallando(at)gmx(dot)at

Fabio 'Sooner' Macedo

[ quoted text not captured ] Assamites, rejoice! obf CEL POT QUI with a rush action on group 4. Great assistance to a Web of Knives Recruit deck. On a totally unrelated note, anyone does know another e-mail address for Todd Banister? I have been unable to access the Path of Blood forums due to a profile change for quite a while... best, Fabio "Sooner" Macedo

LSJ

Fabio 'Sooner' Macedo wrote: > On a totally unrelated note, anyone does know another e-mail address > for Todd Banister? I have been unable to access the Path of Blood > forums due to a profile change for quite a while... scribe at pob

Fabio 'Sooner' Macedo

[ quoted text not captured ] Many thanks, but this is the one I'm not getting any response at :-( Thought he would have another, non-site-specific address... best, Fabio "Sooner" Macedo

LSJ

[ quoted text not captured ] I'm sure he does. But if he's not answering scribe, he must be busy -- that would have little to do with your profile change.

Fabio 'Sooner' Macedo

[ quoted text not captured ] Understood - that eliminates one of the possibilities I had in mind, that the scribe address could be inactive for some reason. best, Fabio "Sooner" Macedo

Robert Goudie

[ quoted text not captured ] Todd is on vacation. -Robert

Orpheus

> Todd is on vacation. HANG HIM !! Some things shouldn't be authorized. Like scribes getting vacations. Orpheus, necrovacational.

Jozxyqk

Fabio 'Sooner' Macedo <fabio....@gmail.com> wrote: > pallando wrote: > > The second preview is up: > > Massassi, 9, Osebo, AUS CEL obf POT QUI, group 4 > > Laibon: Massassi can enter combat with a ready vampire as a D-action. If > > that action is successful, she gats an additional maneuve in the first round > > of the resulting combat. > > regards > > pallando > > --------------- > > pallando(at)gmx(dot)at > Assamites, rejoice! > obf CEL POT QUI with a rush action on group 4. Great assistance to a > Web of Knives Recruit deck. You can team her up with Mata Hari (aus qui OBF...), who can recruit the WoKRs and also play any wacky cards requiring Osebo (the next preview looks like one)

Ector

[ quoted text not captured ] Maybe, somebody will build a good deck based on Massassi, but with current wording of PTO I won't even try :( Yours, Ector

Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon

Ector wrote: > Maybe, somebody will build a good deck based on Massassi, but with > current wording of PTO I won't even try :( C'mon! How dramatic... again! Adapt your deck to your metagame environment. If people usually play Inner Circle/PTO try to add some Delaying Tactics, Direct Intervention or the recent Confusion of the Eye. Or use Multi-Rush abilities to resolve the problem. I have a Enkidu deck that most of times is really screwed by Pentex Subversion and Sensory Deprivation. Guess a Massassi based deck will have the same problems, but will be very fun to play most of times! .- Luis Duarte

Jeroen Rombouts

"Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon" <luis....@netcabo.pt> schreef in bericht news:1128683989.6...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > > Ector wrote: >> Maybe, somebody will build a good deck based on Massassi, but with >> current wording of PTO I won't even try :( > > C'mon! How dramatic... again! Adapt your deck to your metagame > environment. If people usually play Inner Circle/PTO try to add some > Delaying Tactics, Direct Intervention or the recent Confusion of the > Eye. Or use Multi-Rush abilities to resolve the problem. Nooooooo. Not the 'defend against it' argument again. :( As it stands, if someone brings out an Inner Circle, even cross table: destroy it. ;) Screw up their game before they can screw up yours. > > I have a Enkidu deck that most of times is really screwed by Pentex > Subversion and Sensory Deprivation. Guess a Massassi based deck will > have the same problems, but will be very fun to play most of times! unless they blow up your main vamp every time you play.

Olive...@gmail.com

[ quoted text not captured ] Hm. Why don't you include Micheal Luther. I hear IC Members are completely screwed by him... On a side note: If people insist on playing lots of IC members, play voting for a while and include several Justicar Retributions. Hey, IC members might be able to burn one vamp with one vote, but all the other vamps have a vote that can burn up to 7 vamps with one vote! > Up Yours, > Ector

Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon

Jeroen Rombouts wrote: > "Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon" <luis....@netcabo.pt> schreef in bericht > news:1128683989.6...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... >> C'mon! How dramatic... again! Adapt your deck to your metagame >> environment. If people usually play Inner Circle/PTO try to add some >> Delaying Tactics, Direct Intervention or the recent Confusion of the >> Eye. Or use Multi-Rush abilities to resolve the problem. > > Nooooooo. Not the 'defend against it' argument again. :( As it stands, if > someone brings out an Inner Circle, even cross table: destroy it. ;) Screw > up their game before they can screw up yours. Well.... ya. That must be the objective of these kind of non-Camarilla decks based on one key vampire, yes. By the way, when i play with my political Arika deck (that has 2 or 3 of PTOs) when i get the PTO in my hands i prefer to burn an ally Enkidu ASAP. Most of times i do get rushed (Obediences hold on Arika for a while but are not eternal especially with Forced March around...) because he feels the PTO threat. Sometimes Arika won and sometimes Enkidu won. What's so bad about this? Decks must be adapted to the real game environment and not the ideal environment/strategy "in paper". If you have too many problems with PTO, please add some more Confusion of the Eye, DI or Delaying Tactics. You'll notice the difference for sure. Now, let's get back to our brand new Friends that kick ass easily against those annoying over powered Inner Circles! :D .- Luis Duarte

Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon

Olive...@gmail.com wrote: >> Maybe, somebody will build a good deck based on Massassi, but with >> current wording of PTO I won't even try :( > > Hm. Why don't you include Micheal Luther. I hear IC Members are > completely screwed by him... > > On a side note: If people insist on playing lots of IC members, play > voting for a while and include several Justicar Retributions. Hey, IC > members might be able to burn one vamp with one vote, but all the other > vamps have a vote that can burn up to 7 vamps with one vote! That's it: add some cards against opponents strategies to win the game easier. That's why those cards are for. There isn't a single card or strategy in V:tES that one can say it's perfect and always overpowered no matter the opponent decks. There is always a way to counter it. I remember the old days when Thoughts Betrayed ruled the combat scene around. Everybody said it was too overpowered and impossible to play against. What happened in reality was that people start playing also with it. I remember to build against Tremere rush with TB and to counter it i built an old school Gangrel Dominate/Trap&Prevent also with TB that was also too good. Then came the 7/7 RTR Update, Telepathic Tracking and people stop playing with TB. Now, back to the new Ebony friends! .- Luis Duarte

johnmeier1

So you are saying, like "Thoughts Betrayed" that PTO should have it's wording changed? -johnmeier

andrea....@infinito.it

pallando wrote: > The second preview is up: > > Massassi, 9, Osebo, AUS CEL obf POT QUI, group 4 > Laibon: Massassi can enter combat with a ready vampire as a D-action. If > that action is successful, she gats an additional maneuve in the first round > of the resulting combat. > > regards > > pallando just noted the definition of Laibon on ww site don't know when it appeared so i think i could share. Laibon: Laibon is a new sect which is composed of just four clans: Akunanse, Guruhi, Ishtarri and Osebo. Laibon are non-Camarilla, non-Sabbat, non-Independent vampires. Andrea

Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon

johnmeier1 wrote: > So you are saying, like "Thoughts Betrayed" that PTO should have it's > wording changed? No, and actually i was against TB change since i got the solution to face it (that was the message...). Nowadays for each so called powercard you have plenty of solutions against it. That's why PTO shouldn't be changed. People should get used to use the "other" cards they usually don't use instead of forcing another errata. Erratas always remind me what happen to Tomb of Ramses and Return to Innocence... .- Luis Duarte

Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon

andrea.la.ma...@infinito.it wrote: > just noted the definition of Laibon on ww site don't know when it > appeared > so i think i could share. > > Laibon: Laibon is a new sect which is composed of just four clans: > Akunanse, Guruhi, Ishtarri and Osebo. Laibon are non-Camarilla, > non-Sabbat, non-Independent vampires. Non-V:tES? (just kidding...) :D .- Luis Duarte

Rehlow

[ quoted text not captured ] Justicar Retribution has to be called by a Camarilla vampire. Also, in the base case you are at 1 vote from the vote card vs 4 votes from an Inner Circle (whereas an IC will often try to PTO a vampire with no votes making it 5 to 0 to start). Nevertheless, I changed my Cailean superstar deck to be backed up with Camarilla vamps with a similiar discipline spread so I could include 1-2 Justicar Retribution and try to launch the tactical nukes first. Later, ~Rehlow

Rehlow

Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon wrote: > johnmeier1 wrote: > > So you are saying, like "Thoughts Betrayed" that PTO should have it's > > wording changed? > > No, and actually i was against TB change since i got the solution to > face it (that was the message...). > Nowadays for each so called powercard you have plenty of solutions > against it. That's why PTO shouldn't be changed. People should get used > to use the "other" cards they usually don't use instead of forcing > another errata. Your solution to Thoughts Betrayed was to start using Thoughts Betrayed itself? Seems like a pretty bad solution. I believe that if you have to play card or strategy X or have to play specific anti-X, then X is broken. > Erratas always remind me what happen to Tomb of Ramses and Return to > Innocence... > When you played Tomb of Ramses did you fully abuse it and get out almost completely free vamps by transfer on/transfer off until you have enough counters? Return to Innocence is too powerful an effect for a single card. Do you disagree with this? You had to either play with it and hope to win the arms race and go off first or play specifically against it, assuming your opponent always had one in hand and could play it at any time. Later, ~Rehlow

David Zopf

"Jozxyqk" <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote in message news:5dKdnUoR66g...@comcast.com... > Fabio 'Sooner' Macedo <fabio....@gmail.com> wrote: > >> pallando wrote: >> > The second preview is up: >> > Massassi, 9, Osebo, AUS CEL obf POT QUI, group 4 snip > > You can team her up with Mata Hari (aus qui OBF...), who can recruit the > WoKRs and also play any wacky cards requiring Osebo (the next preview > looks like one) ...so long as they don't also require you to be Laibon... ;-) DZ AW

Matthew T. Morgan

On Fri, 7 Oct 2005, David Zopf wrote: >> You can team her up with Mata Hari (aus qui OBF...), who can recruit the >> WoKRs and also play any wacky cards requiring Osebo (the next preview >> looks like one) > > ...so long as they don't also require you to be Laibon... ;-) Look again. Mata Hari can play sect-requiring cards as if she were of that sect. She's an honorary Laibon. Matt Morgan

David Zopf

"Matthew T. Morgan" <far...@io.com> wrote in message news:2005100710...@fnord.io.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Heh. How about that... DZ AW

Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon

Rehlow wrote: > Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon wrote: > > johnmeier1 wrote: > Your solution to Thoughts Betrayed was to start using Thoughts Betrayed > itself? Seems like a pretty bad solution. No, please read what i wrote: i found a solution to a problem, in this case it was the same card. It worked! It was an example. The card itself isn't important itself since its effect has nothing to do with PTO. > I believe that if you have to > play card or strategy X or have to play specific anti-X, then X is > broken. Well, what you're saying is the all basis of the game. If your predator plays a Lost in Crowds tell me how do you face it? Ehnanced Senses? Deflection for bleed? Direct Intervention? Draba? > When you played Tomb of Ramses did you fully abuse it and get out > almost completely free vamps by transfer on/transfer off until you have > enough counters? Yes i did. Was it instantaneous? No it wasn't. Was it free? No it wasn't. Was it contested several times? Yes it did. Or IH was contested because of the popular weenie (bleed or vote pushing) decks then. Was it broken without Information Highway? No it wasn't! It was useful like Zillah's Valley is nowadays. > Return to Innocence is too powerful an effect for a single card. Do you > disagree with this? Yes it was too powerful because any vampire with 4 blood could play it. Of course it could be deflected, blocked or even canceled but the fact that any vampire could play it became IMO the focus of the problem. That's why RTI had several erratas and none worked well. In the case of PTO it is a dangerous card only if played by an Inner Circle which you control only one most of the times. In the case of RTI if i had ready 3 vampires with 4 blood on them, all of the 3 could play it! Another diference is that RTI removes directly pool (where you win despite the setup your prey have) and if PTO burns 1 vampire that has not the same impact. Unfortunatelly this time it is my fault to be writing again around the PTO question instead of analysing the new Ebony vampire. Sorry about that folks! .- Luis Duarte

Rehlow

Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon wrote: > Rehlow wrote: > > Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon wrote: > > > johnmeier1 wrote: > > Your solution to Thoughts Betrayed was to start using Thoughts Betrayed > > itself? Seems like a pretty bad solution. > > No, please read what i wrote: i found a solution to a problem, in this > case it was the same card. It worked! It was an example. The card > itself isn't important itself since its effect has nothing to do with > PTO. > I may have read to much into what you wrote. I believe the only way to deal with old Thoughts Betrayed was to play it yourself to specifically play against it (or lose). What you wrote boils down to, your one solution to TB was to play TB in an old school Gangrel with dominate deck, but that is not the only solution. I don't really care how or if it relates to PTO, because I do not want to get into another PTO discussion, at least not in this thread. > > I believe that if you have to > > play card or strategy X or have to play specific anti-X, then X is > > broken. > > Well, what you're saying is the all basis of the game. If your predator > plays a Lost in Crowds tell me how do you face it? Ehnanced Senses? > Deflection for bleed? Direct Intervention? Draba? > You just mentioned several different cards (and not just different +intercept cards or cards of the same general effect) which incorporate different strategies. If the only way to counter Lost in Crowds was one of the above, lets say just +intercept, then Lost in Crowds would be broken. When you have to counter a card or strategy with only one option, you take away the basis of the game, which is the diversity in which you can play it and still win. > > When you played Tomb of Ramses did you fully abuse it and get out > > almost completely free vamps by transfer on/transfer off until you have > > enough counters? > > Yes i did. > Was it instantaneous? No it wasn't. > Was it free? No it wasn't. > Was it contested several times? Yes it did. Or IH was contested because > of the popular weenie (bleed or vote pushing) decks then. If a card is regularly contested, that's probably a sign of it being too good, but that is a different discussion. > Was it broken without Information Highway? No it wasn't! It was useful > like Zillah's Valley is nowadays. > In this case, ToR might not have been broken, but the Rules Team felt it was overpowered and changed it. Being too overpowered is easy to disagree with, so I respect your opinion that you felt it didn't need to be changed. > > Return to Innocence is too powerful an effect for a single card. Do you > > disagree with this? > > Yes it was too powerful because any vampire with 4 blood could play it. > Of course it could be deflected, blocked or even canceled but the fact > that any vampire could play it became IMO the focus of the problem. > That's why RTI had several erratas and none worked well. In the case of > PTO it is a dangerous card only if played by an Inner Circle which you > control only one most of the times. In the case of RTI if i had ready 3 > vampires with 4 blood on them, all of the 3 could play it! Another > diference is that RTI removes directly pool (where you win despite the > setup your prey have) and if PTO burns 1 vampire that has not the same > impact. > There is nothing in here that I want to say about RtI. I could say some things about PTO, but I'll save that for another thread another day. > Unfortunatelly this time it is my fault to be writing again around the > PTO question instead of analysing the new Ebony vampire. Sorry about > that folks! > Later, ~Rehlow

Jeroen Rombouts

"Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon" <luis....@netcabo.pt> schreef in bericht news:1128685474.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > Jeroen Rombouts wrote: >> "Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon" <luis....@netcabo.pt> schreef in >> bericht >> news:1128683989.6...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... >>> C'mon! How dramatic... again! Adapt your deck to your metagame >>> environment. If people usually play Inner Circle/PTO try to add some >>> Delaying Tactics, Direct Intervention or the recent Confusion of the >>> Eye. Or use Multi-Rush abilities to resolve the problem. >> >> Nooooooo. Not the 'defend against it' argument again. :( As it stands, >> if >> someone brings out an Inner Circle, even cross table: destroy it. ;) >> Screw >> up their game before they can screw up yours. > > Well.... ya. That must be the objective of these kind of non-Camarilla > decks based on one key vampire, yes. By the way, when i play with my > political Arika deck (that has 2 or 3 of PTOs) when i get the PTO in my > hands i prefer to burn an ally Enkidu ASAP. Most of times i do get > rushed (Obediences hold on Arika for a while but are not eternal > especially with Forced March around...) because he feels the PTO > threat. Sometimes Arika won and sometimes Enkidu won. What's so bad > about this? because the player who loses his 10-11 cap is completely hosed. cross table. > > Now, let's get back to our brand new Friends that kick ass easily > against those annoying over powered Inner Circles! :D > yes, no new PTO discussion :-)

Jeroen Rombouts

"Rehlow" <news...@rehlow.com> schreef in bericht news:1128692214....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] talking about TacNukes: Fear of Mekhet!!!!