What is The Grandest Trick Good for?

The Grandest Trick Action Modifier Kiasyd Burn Option 2 blood Only usable when an action is announced. Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life, etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a vampire, clan or discipline. Some digging at Monger (see SPECIAL NOTE FOR ETHAN BURROW at the end of this post) produces the following list: Ambush Arson Bum's Rush Computer Hacking Guard Duty Rave Violation of Trust Bleed Hunt Equip (things that don't require a clan) Employ: Faithful Servant Ghoul Escort Ghoul Retainer J. S. Simmons, Esq. Jackie Therman Marijava Ghoul Mr. Winthrop Tasha Morgan Recruit: Akhenaten, the Sun Pharaoh Arcanum Investigator Hell Hound Mehemet of the Ahl-i-Batin (Mage) Order of Hermes Cabal Rafastio Ghoul Talaq, the Immortal Vagabond Mystic Wendell Delburton (Hunter) Call me short of imagination, but it's hard to come up with scenarios (with the possible exception of a Pulsed bleeder cashing in an existing Spying Mission) where one of these actions is all that worthwhile as to be worth 2 extra blood for the unblockability. Given that the Kiasyd have access to stealth (obt/nec) and blocker exclusion (dom/nec), I'm not sure what TGT does for them, if anything. What am I missing? gomi -- Blood, guts, guns, cuts Knives, lives, wives, nuns, sluts

"Gomi no Sensei" <go...@panix.com> wrote in message news:9v8vf8$n2d$1...@panix1.panix.com... > The Grandest Trick > Action Modifier > Kiasyd > Burn Option > 2 blood > Only usable when an action is announced. > Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated > as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or > burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life, > etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she > is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a > vampire, clan or discipline. How strange ! i was asking myself the same question just a few hours ago. Well, i admit that there's nothing cool to do with Grandest trick. > Ambush > Bum's Rush you have stealth anyway... And you don't want to be burned as you are fighting like a mere ally !!! > Arson you have haunt which is better =) > Computer Hacking with a Laptop equipped, this can be nice ? =) > Bleed not very interesting since you can't play modifiers... > Hunt you cannot. Hunting requires a vampire > Equip, Employ & Recruit:(things that don't require a clan) yes sir =) fairly intersting too ... The best thing you can do ? ? GO BURN A PATH IN PLAY !! you can't be blocked and don't take damage since you are not a vampire when the action resolve. period. reyda

Gomi no Sensei wrote: > > The Grandest Trick > Action Modifier > Kiasyd > Burn Option > 2 blood > Only usable when an action is announced. > Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated > as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or > burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life, > etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she > is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a > vampire, clan or discipline. Why you try loading this guy up with bleed modifiers (e.g. Laptop, Tasha Morgan, J.S. Simmons, PULSE OF THE CANAILLE, etc.), maybe even start with an inner circle member who has +2 bleed to begin with. Use TGT for an unblockable bleed. > Call me short of imagination, but it's hard to come up with scenarios > (with the possible exception of a Pulsed bleeder I see you thought of it, too. Just, why stop at pulsing? Don't forget the Left for Dead! (Question: what happens if he dies and gets saved by Left for Dead? One life becomes one blood again next turn and play the card as you would on an ally?) > Given that the Kiasyd have access to stealth (obt/nec) and blocker > exclusion (dom/nec), I'm not sure what TGT does for them, if anything. Once the bleeder has his modifiers, you have a one-moving part bleed deck. Of course, you'll get crushed by a prey with things like Renegade Garous or Muddles. Or bleed-bounce. Fred

"Gomi no Sensei" <go...@panix.com> wrote in message news:9v8vf8$n2d$1...@panix1.panix.com... > The Grandest Trick > Action Modifier > Kiasyd > Burn Option > 2 blood > Only usable when an action is announced. > Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated > as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or > burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life, > etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she > is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a > vampire, clan or discipline. > > Some digging at Monger (see SPECIAL NOTE FOR ETHAN BURROW at the end of this > post) produces the following list: > > Ambush > Arson > Bum's Rush I sure wouldn't want to rush anyone without my disciplines, and with the threat of burning up if I his zero life. I guess you could do strange ally only things in combat? Like....uhm...gain 1 life from vag. myst. And you are protected from agg damage? > > Call me short of imagination, but it's hard to come up with scenarios > (with the possible exception of a Pulsed bleeder cashing in an existing > Spying Mission) where one of these actions is all that worthwhile as > to be worth 2 extra blood for the unblockability. > > Given that the Kiasyd have access to stealth (obt/nec) and blocker > exclusion (dom/nec), I'm not sure what TGT does for them, if anything. > > What am I missing? Well, you could use up all those Malleable Visage that are cloging your hand. Or someone can toss a cloak over for you, now other allies need +1 intercept to get you(rough) Use it to burn smiling jack/brainwash/etc. When you just need to bleed for one? You cannot be redirected while you are an ally(only effects vampires) -- Aaron The Nosferatu Stuff

> The best thing you can do ? ? > GO BURN A PATH IN PLAY !! > you can't be blocked and don't take damage since you are not a vampire when > the action resolve. period. There's one other aspect to it. Aggravated damage is now the same as normal damage. If you know the action is going to result in a combat situation where aggravated damage is inevitable (going up against Thetmes, Basilia, etc), you can now be assured that one agg will not send your vampire to torpor. You could knock an empty Thetmes into torpor without having to worry (overmuch) about being sent there yourself. Fanboy

Organization: Road Runner - Texas On 12 Dec 2001 20:15:20 -0500, go...@panix.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote: >Some digging at Monger (see SPECIAL NOTE FOR ETHAN BURROW at the end of this >post) produces the following list: <snip> >Call me short of imagination, but it's hard to come up with scenarios >(with the possible exception of a Pulsed bleeder cashing in an existing >Spying Mission) where one of these actions is all that worthwhile as >to be worth 2 extra blood for the unblockability. > >Given that the Kiasyd have access to stealth (obt/nec) and blocker >exclusion (dom/nec), I'm not sure what TGT does for them, if anything. > >What am I missing? Ummm, maybe the special secret note just for me?? :-) Ethan Burrow - Prince of Austin saa...@yahoo.com http://whitestar.ddg.com/vtes/

"Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:<9v932q$ge6$1...@neon.noos.net>... [ quoted text not captured ] What about putting on a vampire Secure Haven and then play a Return to Innocence with the Grandest Trick?

In article <3c183b23....@news-server.austin.rr.com>, Ethan Burrow <saa...@yahoo.com> wrote: >Organization: Road Runner - Texas > >On 12 Dec 2001 20:15:20 -0500, go...@panix.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote: > >>Some digging at Monger (see SPECIAL NOTE FOR ETHAN BURROW at the end of this >>post) produces the following list: > ><snip> > >>Call me short of imagination, but it's hard to come up with scenarios >>(with the possible exception of a Pulsed bleeder cashing in an existing >>Spying Mission) where one of these actions is all that worthwhile as >>to be worth 2 extra blood for the unblockability. >> >>Given that the Kiasyd have access to stealth (obt/nec) and blocker >>exclusion (dom/nec), I'm not sure what TGT does for them, if anything. >> >>What am I missing? Oh, yeah. It's 'Methuselah,' not 'Mathusaleh' or whatever bog-rotting abomination of a spelling you've got on all the BL cards. Go fix0r, please. gomi btw, nice work on getting the disc. symbols on all the splits. congrats! [ quoted text not captured ]

How about Sunrise Service? 2 actions to set up an Unblockable one at your convenience --- and it can't get DI'ed. A slow, but cheap, version of horrific Countenance. DH

When Mars is aligned with Jupiter, you can build this effective Allies Deck _without_ Allies... Simple thrown in some Memories of Mortality, like 10, and Bum's Rush your targets using The Grandest Trick to transform your vampire into a powerful ally. Use Trap, Dead-End Alley and Fake Out and pray that your opponent isn't using environmental damage or Steal Strikes...! Regards, .- Luis Duarte - - - Powerbase:Lisbon-[http://planeta.clix.pt/vampire] go...@panix.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote in message news:<9v8vf8$n2d$1...@panix1.panix.com>... [ quoted text not captured ]

go...@panix.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote in message news:<9v8vf8$n2d$1...@panix1.panix.com>... > The Grandest Trick > Action Modifier > Kiasyd > Burn Option > 2 blood > Only usable when an action is announced. > Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated > as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or > burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life, > etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she > is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a > vampire, clan or discipline. > Just because I know it'll come up, a Kiasyd playing The Grandest Trick and subsequently burning is *not* considered "an ally you control that was burned since your last turn" for purposes of Compel The Spirit, correct? Marc G.

go...@panix.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote in message news:<9v8vf8$n2d$1...@panix1.panix.com>... > The Grandest Trick > Action Modifier > Kiasyd > Burn Option > 2 blood > Only usable when an action is announced. > Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated > as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or > burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life, > etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she > is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a > vampire, clan or discipline. You could use Vagabond Mystic to add a life to your new "ally" assuming he is not at max life capacity. You could also do the oh so many D actions to things out on the table.

>What is The Grandest Trick Good for? Nothing. That's the trick, haha!

Gomi no Sensei <go...@panix.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: 9v8vf8$n2d$1...@panix1.panix.com... > The Grandest Trick > Action Modifier > Kiasyd > Burn Option > 2 blood > Only usable when an action is announced. > Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated > as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or > burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life, > etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she > is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a > vampire, clan or discipline. > > Call me short of imagination, but it's hard to come up with scenarios > (with the possible exception of a Pulsed bleeder cashing in an existing > Spying Mission) where one of these actions is all that worthwhile as > to be worth 2 extra blood for the unblockability. > > Given that the Kiasyd have access to stealth (obt/nec) and blocker > exclusion (dom/nec), I'm not sure what TGT does for them, if anything. > > What am I missing? Aside from destroying an annonying intecept or other location with Arson or burn an Atonemnet or one of those nasty path cards, I think it can be very useful for bleeding. Ok, you can't use any disciplines, but there's always Computer Hacking, Laptops, Tasha Morgan, J.S. Simmons and maybe Inveraray, Scotland (I'm not sure if you still get the bleed bonus once you stop being a vampire). Even when used for bleed of just 3 (e.g. Computer Hacking + Lapop Computer - depending on the decks you play against bleeding for more than 3 can be a risk anyway, when Archon Investigations are commonly used) I think it can very well be worth the 2 blood, given that it makes the action unblockable if your prey doesn't have any allies and - contrary to all the other 'unblockable-cards' I can think right now - of does *not* send you to torpor. I found it to be a nice addition to a bleed oriented Kiasyd deck. M. "So you're saying you're going to bleed me for three and there's nothing I can do about it?"

[ quoted text not captured ] It was a game-winner at one of our pre-release events - the defender with 2 pool didn't block the initial bleed in order to block the dominator, but the dominator (a Kiasyd) pulled the Grandest Trick and ousted him anyway with a bleed of 1. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

>> The Grandest Trick >> Action Modifier >> Kiasyd >> Burn Option >> 2 blood >> Only usable when an action is announced. >> Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated >> as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or >> burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life, >> etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she >> is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a >> vampire, clan or discipline. I hate to be repeating that which is available in other threads, but it wasn't clear to me whether or not you can do this: Bleed with Computer Hacking. Conditioning at superior, while announcing the action. THEN, play The Grandest Trick, for a bleed of 5 unblockable by vampires, total cost of 3 blood. What exactly does "the duration of the action" mean? "From here on, till the end of the action" or "Better not have played any of those cards with little squares on the side already, bub?" -- Pat Ricochet Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta

Pat Ricochet wrote: > > >> The Grandest Trick > >> Action Modifier > >> Kiasyd > >> Burn Option > >> 2 blood > >> Only usable when an action is announced. > >> Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated > >> as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or > >> burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life, > >> etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she > >> is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a > >> vampire, clan or discipline. > > I hate to be repeating that which is available in other threads, but it > wasn't clear to me whether or not you can do this: > > Bleed with Computer Hacking. > Conditioning at superior, while announcing the action. > THEN, play The Grandest Trick, for a bleed of 5 unblockable by vampires, > total cost of 3 blood. Not legal. GT must be played when you announce the action. Conditioning cannot be played during the announcement - it is played later. > What exactly does "the duration of the action" mean? "From here on, > till the end of the action" or "Better not have played any of those cards > with little squares on the side already, bub?" The former. You could squeeze other "as announced" modfiers in there before the GT, like Seduction. [ quoted text not captured ]

>> What exactly does "the duration of the action" mean? "From here on, >> till the end of the action" or "Better not have played any of those cards >> with little squares on the side already, bub?" > > The former. > You could squeeze other "as announced" modfiers in there before the GT, > like Seduction. Purely for cycling, right? ...since you can't play Seduction on allies, and no vampires will be blocking the action after Grandest Trick is played. (Or a REALLY heavy Direct Intervention environment, I guess) [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Right. It was merely the first "as announced" modifier that popped into my head. Used for illustrative purposes only. [ quoted text not captured ]

>> The Grandest Trick >> Action Modifier >> Kiasyd >> Burn Option >> 2 blood >> Only usable when an action is announced. >> Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated >> as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or >> burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life, >> etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she >> is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a >> vampire, clan or discipline. >I sure wouldn't want to rush anyone without my disciplines, and with the >threat of burning up if I his zero life. >I guess you could do strange ally only things in combat? Like....uhm...gain >1 life from vag. myst. And you are protected from agg damage? You could always play a Memories of Mortality, then Bum's Rush a Vampire followed up with a Trap. Toss in a few lucky blows if you like. Then after the target is whooped into torpor, steal it with an Unblockable Grave Robbing. Next turn, well Golconda would be nice.. Of course, you didn't hear that from me.. BernieTime

> >I sure wouldn't want to rush anyone without my disciplines, and with the > >threat of burning up if I his zero life. > >I guess you could do strange ally only things in combat? Like....uhm...gain > >1 life from vag. myst. And you are protected from agg damage? > > You could always play a Memories of Mortality, then Bum's Rush > a Vampire followed up with a Trap. Toss in a few lucky blows if you like. > > Then after the target is whooped into torpor, steal it with an Unblockable > Grave Robbing. Next turn, well Golconda would be nice.. > > Of course, you didn't hear that from me.. Hahah, I do like the Memories of Mortality angle, that's pretty amusing :) Maybe I can work Kyasid into an allies deck :)

Pat Ricochet ?sp...@socrates.gatech.edu? wrote in message news:?B83E61D0.9D95%sp...@socrates.gatech.edu?... ? ?? What exactly does ?the duration of the action? mean? ?From here on, ? ?? till the end of the action? or ?Better not have played any of those cards ? ?? with little squares on the side already, bub?? ? ? ? ? The former. ? ? You could squeeze other ?as announced? modfiers in there before the GT, ? ? like Seduction. ? ? Purely for cycling, right? ...since you can't play Seduction on allies, ? and no vampires will be blocking the action after Grandest Trick is played. ? (Or a REALLY heavy Direct Intervention environment, I guess) Prefect Clarity is fine, just give THA skill cards to them :)

>How about Sunrise Service? > >2 actions to set up an Unblockable one at your convenience --- and it >can't get DI'ed. A slow, but cheap, version of horrific Countenance. Except that Sunrise Service requires a Sabbat *vampire*. =P Halcyan 2

"Brad Ward" <wa...@nevada.edu> wrote in message news:e5b93701.01121...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] I'm pretty sure was answered elsewhere by LSJ but you would have asked this before you would have seen the answer with the google issues recently. LSJ said no, becasue a vampire that has played The Grandest Trick does not have "starting life" to be below. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Marc G." wrote: > Just because I know it'll come up, a Kiasyd playing The Grandest Trick > and subsequently burning is *not* considered "an ally you control that > was burned since your last turn" for purposes of Compel The Spirit, > correct? Right, since by the time you want to play Compel the Spirit, he's no longer an ally. (cf. Death Pact). [ quoted text not captured ]

Brad Ward wrote: > go...@panix.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote in message news:<9v8vf8$n2d$1...@panix1.panix.com>... > > The Grandest Trick > You could use Vagabond Mystic to add a life to your new "ally" assuming he > is not at max life capacity. No, since no ally has a "max" life. The GT vampire has not "starting life", so cannot meet the requirements on VM. [ quoted text not captured ]

>No, since no ally has a "max" life. The GT vampire has not "starting life", >so cannot meet the requirements on VM. Well, Shambling Hordes kinda have a "max" life of 3 or 4.... =P Halcyan 2

[ quoted text not captured ] It is played at nec => 3 It is played at NEC => 4 [ quoted text not captured ]

Uriel <galama...@hotmail.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: e8b60e8d.01121...@posting.google.com... > > What about putting on a vampire Secure Haven and then play a Return to > Innocence with the Grandest Trick? Return to Innocence card text: "(D) Bleed. If you successfully bleed your prey for one or more, put this card on the acting vampire. Burn this card if this vampire loses any blood or goes to torpor, or if your prey is ousted. During your next untap, this vampire is removed from the game and your prey burns X pool, where X is the capacity of this vampire." Since Return to Innocence refers to an acting *Vampire*, I don't think that's a legal combo.

[ quoted text not captured ] It also costs 4 blood, which means that it's not possible, by explicit card text on Grandest. But yes, card text indicates that it must be a vampire who's acting. [ quoted text not captured ]