Alright, I just started looking at this newsgroup so don't flame me if
this is a dumb question, it's something I don't know and would like to.
Is there any truth to the rumor of a new expansion coming out soon? I
live in Seattle and was chatting with a couple of people in the game
center, and a couple of the guys who work in the store were telling me
that they've heard rumors about wizards working on a Sabbat expansion.
Any info would be great.
Calyn (ken...@u.washington.edu)
[ quoted text not captured ]
New cards are being worked on. They are scheduled to be released late this
year. The new cards do not, as far as I know, constitue a "Sabbat expansion"
- they're simply a V:TES "expansion" (although the number of cards may be
significantly smaller than the number in a typical "expansion).
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules:
http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Calyn wrote:
> I live in Seattle and was chatting with a couple of people in the game
> center, and a couple of the guys who work in the store were telling me
> that they've heard rumors about wizards working on a Sabbat expansion.
I would have thought that the stores in Seattle would have been the first
to get the Sabbat expansion. The expansion has been out for what, 2 years?
...and they're just now getting rumors of it?!?
*grin*
> Any info would be great.
Okay...silliness aside, there's supposed to be some new cards coming this
year, but nobody knows for sure what's going to be printed or even how
many new cards there will be.
Noal McDonald
Michigan Jyhad League
--
"Excuse me. Are you a yuppie?"
-woman at a gas station in Detroit
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <79s14u$e22$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Dhar...@yahoo.com writes
>> Any info would be great.>
>Okay...silliness aside, there's supposed to be some new cards coming this
>year, but nobody knows for sure what's going to be printed or even how
>many new cards there will be.
However, rough guesses based on what has been implied/inferred by both
sides would hit at somewhere around 80-100 (with 100 being probably too
high).
Also, the person concerned within WotC is noted as being sympathetic to
the old games and, if such is true, it is likely that note would be
taken of what players have said they want - mostly, the newer, smaller
clans beefing up (specifically, the DS/AH clans, Lasombra, Tzimisce, and
any clans in Sabbat who don't mesh well with their old clan).
--
James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England)
Vampire: Elder Kindred Network
http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net
>> Alright, I just started looking at this newsgroup so don't flame me if
>> this is a dumb question, it's something I don't know and would like to.>> Is there any truth to the rumor of a new expansion coming out soon? I>> live in Seattle and was chatting with a couple of people in the game
>> center, and a couple of the guys who work in the store were telling me
>> that they've heard rumors about wizards working on a Sabbat expansion.>> Any info would be great.
Not a silly question, Calyn. I was unaware that an expansion would be
released.
>New cards are being worked on. They are scheduled to be released late this
>year. The new cards do not, as far as I know, constitue a "Sabbat
expansion"
>- they're simply a V:TES "expansion" (although the number of cards may be
>significantly smaller than the number in a typical "expansion).
Yippee!
A new expansion! At last!
That's true that the smaller clans like Ravnos ... non-Camarilla clans and
Sabbat clans need to get more vampires and their related disciplines
(Chimerstry ...) need more cards to choose from. That's what I said to
Wizards in a letter (traditional hand-written letter) about a year or two
ago.
If no card will be released for the Sabbat, that's okay: maybe the next
expansion then. :)
I liked to play the SAMEDI clan in the role playing game, but if that clan
would be released in Jyhad cards, this clan would probably be really weak.
Clan disciplines:
Necromancy (the less desirable discipline ever wanted in cards: in role play
it's the more demanded discipline) Yes, in role play you can have access to
invisible ghosts to spy your enemy and you can strike them down with your
ghosts. You can use necromancy to enslave the ghosts to do your bidding.
Everyone fear to be spyed upon so they fear the Necromancy users. That
concept was hard to translate in this game so the Necromancy became a very
poor discipline. I admit that this discipline have some neat tricks, but
that discipline is filled with wallpapers. ;-)
Thanatosis: a discipline that could be tricky (it mainly consists of
transmitting Rigor Mortis to opponents ... well, make your opponent feel
more dead and give them some putrifications....). I would like to see that
discipline released. :)
Obfuscate: well, not that much useful without a 'bleeding' discipline. Oh
well ...
I like that clan but unfortunately it will probably never be released. :-(
I'm looking forward to see the date (in Scrye magazine) to know when the
expansion will be released in stores.
If the expansion only expand the traditional Camarilla clans (Gangrel,
Brujah, ...) ... well that's okay. I don't feel that they need new vampires.
Maybe some new clan cards and discipline cards would be welcome. More votes
too could be good.
In article <S$ynXBA5E...@obeah.demon.co.uk>,
James Coupe <ve...@obeah.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <79s14u$e22$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Dhar...@yahoo.com writes> >> Any info would be great.
> >> >Okay...silliness aside, there's supposed to be some new cards coming this
> >year, but nobody knows for sure what's going to be printed or even how
> >many new cards there will be.
>
> However, rough guesses based on what has been implied/inferred by both
> sides would hit at somewhere around 80-100 (with 100 being probably too
> high).
>
> Also, the person concerned within WotC is noted as being sympathetic to
> the old games and, if such is true, it is likely that note would be
> taken of what players have said they want - mostly, the newer, smaller
> clans beefing up (specifically, the DS/AH clans, Lasombra, Tzimisce, and
> any clans in Sabbat who don't mesh well with their old clan).
Yeah, I guess you are right. That would probably the most prudent course
of action. I just hope the new set will be more than say 5-10 cards
distributed as promo-cards.
Is there any way of confirming that? I wonder...
Carl
(VEKN Prince of Vienna)
[ quoted text not captured ]
If there is to be a new set couldn't they (wizards) print some of the old cards
with new errata text? I mean it would only have to be text alterations, not the
pictures themselves and then we could finally get an end to this bickering about
errata.
I haven't sat down and made a list of all cards that would have to be re-printed
but even if all cards weren't changed perhaps some could be?
Robert
On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:02:09 GMT, vte...@wizards.com (LSJ) said:
LSJ> ken...@u.washington.edu wrote:
>> Alright, I just started looking at this newsgroup so don't flame me if
>> this is a dumb question, it's something I don't know and would like to.
>> Is there any truth to the rumor of a new expansion coming out soon? I
>> live in Seattle and was chatting with a couple of people in the game
>> center, and a couple of the guys who work in the store were telling me
>> that they've heard rumors about wizards working on a Sabbat expansion.>> Any info would be great.
LSJ> New cards are being worked on. They are scheduled to be released
LSJ> late this year. The new cards do not, as far as I know, constitue
LSJ> a "Sabbat expansion"
LSJ> - they're simply a V:TES "expansion" (although the number of cards may be
LSJ> significantly smaller than the number in a typical "expansion).
This is still great news, I've been fearing that the new cards would
only amount to a few new promo cards or something (not that I'd scoff
at those, either *grin*). If we're getting an actual (mini)expansion
then here's one person who'll pre-order them by the boxload as soon as
we get some definite info.
BTW, is there any info about the playtest process for the new cards?
In other words, do people with a good knowledge of the game and
possible card design pitfalls (LSJ et al) have any say in the process?
This would be an opportunity to make the expansion as bug-free as
possible and avoid stupid mistakes (ToR III, RtI, etc).
//Petri
In article <7xd83hb...@termiitti.akumiitti.fi>,
Petri Wessman <or...@termiitti.akumiitti.fi> wrote:
>BTW, is there any info about the playtest process for the new cards?
>In other words, do people with a good knowledge of the game and
>possible card design pitfalls (LSJ et al) have any say in the process?
>This would be an opportunity to make the expansion as bug-free as
>possible and avoid stupid mistakes (ToR III, RtI, etc).
What I'd really like to know is what convinced them to release another
set!? (Even if it is only rolling thunder sized)
--
/\ Jasper Phillips
/VVVVVVVVVVVVVV|~"~"~"~"~"~"----------........____ jaz
j^^^^^^^^^^^^^\/"~"~"~"~-----------........._____ ~"~--.
* http://www.engr.orst.edu/~philljas/ "~"~'--`
In article <36C29F39...@hem.passagen.se>,
Robert Ekvall <rek...@hem.passagen.se> wrote:
>If there is to be a new set couldn't they (wizards) print some of the old cards
>with new errata text? I mean it would only have to be text alterations, not the
>pictures themselves and then we could finally get an end to this bickering about
>errata.
I'd definitly rather see new cards (provided they're balanced) to address
the problems that some clans are underrepresented and consequently suck.
If there's only going to be a few cards (Anything less than 100), I
don't want to see any reprints.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On 11 Feb 1999 11:16:39 GMT, phil...@tx.ENGR.ORST.EDU (Jasper Phillips) said:
Jasper> In article <7xd83hb...@termiitti.akumiitti.fi>,
Jasper> Petri Wessman <or...@termiitti.akumiitti.fi> wrote:
>> BTW, is there any info about the playtest process for the new cards?
>> In other words, do people with a good knowledge of the game and
>> possible card design pitfalls (LSJ et al) have any say in the process?
>> This would be an opportunity to make the expansion as bug-free as
>> possible and avoid stupid mistakes (ToR III, RtI, etc).
Jasper> What I'd really like to know is what convinced them to release
Jasper> another set!? (Even if it is only rolling thunder sized)
Apparently the person why replaced Ryan Dancey as brand manager was
(is) more friendly towards supporting older games. This is probably
some sort of test to see how viable ($$$, you know :) it is to support
Jyhad. I find it hard to see how it could *not* be profitable, seeing
how the reprint of the Sabbat expansion seems to also have sold
out. But we'll see. It the expansion manages to be absolute crap, that
might hurt its sales slightly *grin*
... and perhaps someone has monitored the Net and noticed that this
group still generates about as much discussiong as the whole
r.g.t-c.misc. :)
Or whatever. I really don't know the exact reasoning behind the
decision. One factor could be that someone at WotC is starting to
realize that it isn't viable in the long run to keep pumping out new
games and discard the older ones - gamers have only so much money to
spend, and the resistance towards trying the "Next New Wonderful
Game(tm)" increases with each new game that comes out. This hobby
requires both time and money, and both are usually in short supply for
people. Most people would much rather buy expansions for their
favorite game(s) than invest in something new.
One thing going for Jyhad is that it tends to attract an older, more
"gamer" crowd than Magic and its ilk. At least by my own observation,
the average Jyhad player is older than the average Magic player, and
most Jyhad players are "gamers" in the sense that they play a lot of
games (board, computer, roleplaying, whatever). Why is this a good
thing? Well, for one it is a slightly different "market" which Magic
doesn't quite cover. Also, older people tend to have larger incomes :)
//Petri
In article <7xaeylb...@termiitti.akumiitti.fi>,
Petri Wessman <or...@termiitti.akumiitti.fi> wrote:
>Jasper> What I'd really like to know is what convinced them to release
>Jasper> another set!? (Even if it is only rolling thunder sized)
>
>Apparently the person why replaced Ryan Dancey as brand manager was
>(is) more friendly towards supporting older games. This is probably
>some sort of test to see how viable ($$$, you know :) it is to support
>Jyhad. I find it hard to see how it could *not* be profitable, seeing
>how the reprint of the Sabbat expansion seems to also have sold
>out. But we'll see. It the expansion manages to be absolute crap, that
>might hurt its sales slightly *grin*
Ah, so they did move Ryan elsewhere. Good. I never could figure out
how he became the manager of a game he clearly didn't like.
>... and perhaps someone has monitored the Net and noticed that this
>group still generates about as much discussiong as the whole
>r.g.t-c.misc. :)
No kidding. This group also has the highest signal-to-noise ratio
of any newgroup I know of (even if you count the flames ;-) ).
>Or whatever. I really don't know the exact reasoning behind the
>decision. One factor could be that someone at WotC is starting to
>realize that it isn't viable in the long run to keep pumping out new
>games and discard the older ones - gamers have only so much money to
>spend, and the resistance towards trying the "Next New Wonderful
>Game(tm)" increases with each new game that comes out. This hobby
>requires both time and money, and both are usually in short supply for
>people. Most people would much rather buy expansions for their
>favorite game(s) than invest in something new.
Yah, there's been much more of an upswing back towards other kinds of
games where I'm at. Roleplaying, LARP, board gaming, a bit
of war gaming, PBEM, etc.
>One thing going for Jyhad is that it tends to attract an older, more
>"gamer" crowd than Magic and its ilk. At least by my own observation,
[snip]
Yup. It's a more difficult game (although not a difficult game) than
other card games, and so tends to weed the "weenies" out, IMHO.
Perhaps the slower more methodical pace (although that depends on
the local metagame) have an affect on this, but I suspect it's just
because it's a deeper game, and older players aren't as into the
quick kill.
[ quoted text not captured ]
> I'd definitly rather see new cards (provided they're balanced) to address
> the problems that some clans are underrepresented and consequently suck.
> If there's only going to be a few cards (Anything less than 100), I
> don't want to see any reprints.
I agree. *But* wouldn't reprints be a lot cheaper than new cards? And subsequently,
couldn't they be added as something extra? somthing that doesn't make the new
expansion smaller etc.
Heck, what do I know. Perhaps reprints cost just as much as new cards. I just thought
that since they don't have to spend lots of money on artists :) and such they would
be cheaper.
Robert
In article <36C2E645...@hem.passagen.se>,
[ quoted text not captured ]
I suppose they may well be cheaper; then again there'd also be a lot
less demand for them, which could easily offset any price savings.
I'd rather have no new set than a new set that does poorly.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Petri Wessman wrote:
>
> On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:02:09 GMT, vte...@wizards.com (LSJ) said:
>
[clip]
> LSJ> New cards are being worked on. They are scheduled to be released
> LSJ> late this year. The new cards do not, as far as I know, constitue
> LSJ> a "Sabbat expansion"
> LSJ> - they're simply a V:TES "expansion" (although the number of cards may be
> LSJ> significantly smaller than the number in a typical "expansion).
>
> This is still great news, I've been fearing that the new cards would
> only amount to a few new promo cards or something (not that I'd scoff
> at those, either *grin*). If we're getting an actual (mini)expansion
> then here's one person who'll pre-order them by the boxload as soon as
> we get some definite info.
I don't know for sure how the cards will even be distributed. There may
not be any boxloads to pre-order. I did hear someone in the newsgroup
once mention that WotC should distribute the cards in the Duelist. If
WotC were to take that advice you might be buying boxes of The Duelist!
:-)
> BTW, is there any info about the playtest process for the new cards?
> In other words, do people with a good knowledge of the game and
> possible card design pitfalls (LSJ et al) have any say in the process?
> This would be an opportunity to make the expansion as bug-free as
> possible and avoid stupid mistakes (ToR III, RtI, etc).
We have made some offers, stern warnings, etc. with regard to these
issues. No answers yet.
--
Robert Goudie, Chairman rrgo...@earthlink.net
Vampire: Elder Kindred Network http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net
_________________________________________________________________
The Official Vampire: the Eternal Struggle Players Organization
James Coupe wrote:
>
> In article <79s14u$e22$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Dhar...@yahoo.com writes> >> Any info would be great.
> >> >Okay...silliness aside, there's supposed to be some new cards coming this
> >year, but nobody knows for sure what's going to be printed or even how
> >many new cards there will be.
>
> However, rough guesses based on what has been implied/inferred by both
> sides would hit at somewhere around 80-100 (with 100 being probably too
> high).
Far fewer than this estimate. I'll let others do the math, but I think
the cards for the inactive games will be on extra space during other
games' print runs or by having all inactive games share one sheet. This
is unconfirmed. However it would lead you to believe that we might see,
maybe 25 cards or so. No one from WotC has publicly called it a
mini-expansion or given any concrete numbers about the new cards.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Jasper Phillips wrote:
>
> In article <7xd83hb...@termiitti.akumiitti.fi>,> Petri Wessman <or...@termiitti.akumiitti.fi> wrote:
> >BTW, is there any info about the playtest process for the new cards?
> >In other words, do people with a good knowledge of the game and
> >possible card design pitfalls (LSJ et al) have any say in the process?
> >This would be an opportunity to make the expansion as bug-free as
> >possible and avoid stupid mistakes (ToR III, RtI, etc).
>> What I'd really like to know is what convinced them to release another> set!? (Even if it is only rolling thunder sized)
This change of heart occurred immediately after Ryan Dancey's leaving as
product manager for the inactive WotC brands. The number of upset WotC
bigwigs and our emails, calls, and letters may have played a part in the
decision too. I'd certainly like to think so.
[ quoted text not captured ]
> What I'd really like to know is what convinced them to release another
> set!? (Even if it is only rolling thunder sized)
I'd be willing to be that the formation of and support for the
V:EKN had alot to do with it. That and the Praxis/Crusade
tournaments that have been succesfully coordinated and run
worldwide for the last few years.
I don't know how much influence the above had, but I'd bet
they had some.
a0
[ quoted text not captured ]
"lisa" <bob...@globetrotter.net> wrote:
snip
>I liked to play the SAMEDI clan in the role playing game, but if that clan
>would be released in Jyhad cards, this clan would probably be really weak.
>Clan disciplines:
snip
>Thanatosis: a discipline that could be tricky (it mainly consists of
>transmitting Rigor Mortis to opponents ... well, make your opponent feel
>more dead and give them some putrifications....). I would like to see that
>discipline released. :)
snip
I, too would like to see underutilized clans get some support from the
expansion, but (I 've said this before) I'd love to see this
discipline in the CCG, too. Lots of Minion debilitating effects
(Sense-Dep like, or also the Crafting Vicissitude cards, etc) And of
course, you could make the best named card in all of CCG"-dom"
Simple, Chronic Thanatosis!
;-)
Regards,
R. David Zopf
guenh...@mindspring.com
Atom Weaver
>Yippee!
>A new expansion! At last!
>That's true that the smaller clans like Ravnos ... non-Camarilla clans and
>Sabbat clans need to get more vampires and their related disciplines
>(Chimerstry ...) need more cards to choose from. That's what I said to
>Wizards in a letter (traditional hand-written letter) about a year or two
>ago.
if it's less than 100 cards, I wouldn't count on there being enough to fill
the clans out evenly like people would hope. There's too many clans to deal
with in that manner. I also wouldn't expect to see additions to the Antribu
clans. Also WW released 3rd edition rules to their game that made some clan
changes as well as story chages (like the fact that the cammy and sabbat
aren't so unfriendly from what I understand and things like the cammy
malkies owning up to their dementation like they always should have), I'd
expect to see stuff from there.
>I liked to play the SAMEDI clan in the role playing game, but if that clan
>would be released in Jyhad cards, this clan would probably be really weak.
They suck for all intents and purposes. Surprised they let you play them at
all, I rarely see them because the nossies are usually so repulsed by them
that they put them out of their misery quite quickly.
>I'm looking forward to see the date (in Scrye magazine) to know when the
>expansion will be released in stores.
Scrye sucks, but other than that I wouldn't expect to see it until the end
of the year and I wouldn't plan on any new clans. They can barely hand the
ones they've got. Also on a side note, they probably won't bring in the
other clans because they're not truly clans. Case in point are the
Gargoyles which they made allies. All of the clans represented now are part
of the original 13 clans (minus the Capadocians who are now the Giovanni,
and the Salubri, who are so rare that there are only 8 of them in existence
and all at the same generation which would make for a very bland clan to add
to this game).
All of the other 12 have been represented, what would be interesting however
would be to see Tzimsce and Lasombra Antribu, who are semi-cammy, but for
this games purposes are non cammy and it would suit them better to just make
more sabbat versions.
>
>If the expansion only expand the traditional Camarilla clans (Gangrel,
>Brujah, ...) ... well that's okay. I don't feel that they need new
vampires.
>Maybe some new clan cards and discipline cards would be welcome. More votes
>too could be good.
if they expand on the basic stuff, they're going to have a lot of pissed off
players and they better not add to the vampire counts of those clans because
they're overbalanced in options right now as it is. The game does need some
"balance" to the other clans/disciplines. I'd really expect to see 3 to 4
vamps from the 4 expansion clans, 2 from the new sabbat clans (roughly make
it 20 vamps in the set total because the Sabbat clans still have a smaller
advantage over the expansion clans). and a larger number of cards in the
base set that are discipline required to fill in the open slots. Ideally
when they're done, all disciplines and clans would have an equal number of
cards of that type as a choice(example. If there's X different obfuscate
cards to choose from after all sets are released, there's garaunteed X
protean cards, X Celerity, X potence... etc.) Whether they're bright enough
to follow this is unknown though. And then again I have no idea what they're
planning.
Vince
Vince Johnson wrote:
>
> >I'm looking forward to see the date (in Scrye magazine) to know when the
> >expansion will be released in stores.
>
I'm really trying to make sure people's expectations are not too high.
WotC has said that we'll see new cards by October '99. They didn't say
anything about an expansion nor did they mention anything about
distribution through stores.
[ quoted text not captured ]
"Vince Johnson" <john...@tcnj.edu> wrote:
>>Yippee!
>>A new expansion! At last!
>>That's true that the smaller clans like Ravnos ... non-Camarilla clans and
>>Sabbat clans need to get more vampires and their related disciplines
>>(Chimerstry ...) need more cards to choose from. That's what I said to
>>Wizards in a letter (traditional hand-written letter) about a year or two
>>ago.>if it's less than 100 cards, I wouldn't count on there being enough to fill
>the clans out evenly like people would hope. There's too many clans to deal
>with in that manner. I also wouldn't expect to see additions to the Antribu
>clans. Also WW released 3rd edition rules to their game that made some clan
>changes as well as story chages (like the fact that the cammy and sabbat
>aren't so unfriendly from what I understand and things like the cammy
>malkies owning up to their dementation like they always should have), I'd
>expect to see stuff from there.
I agree that there won't be enough to "fill out" the expansion clans,
no one is expecting that big an expansion. In truth, I suspect that
80 to 100 cards is a pipe dream. I'd think more in the 25 to 60
range, if that. Any little bit would help, though.
As to the 3ed rules changes, WotC can observe or ignore them as they
see fit. The license that they acquired from WW was to the creative
theme of the World of Darkness, _not_ to the rules structure of V:TM.
Where there's overlap (discipline titles, effects, vampire names,
etc.) in the theme of the two games, you likely won't find WotC
sticking to the rules structure. In fact, they could possibly be
violating their license with WW if they were to do so too closely.
This pertains to the rules structure of V:TM, only. As to the theme
of the WoD (which is where the big changes to V:TM really came) they
again can take and leave as they choose.
>>I liked to play the SAMEDI clan in the role playing game, but if that clan
>>would be released in Jyhad cards, this clan would probably be really weak.>They suck for all intents and purposes. Surprised they let you play them at
>all, I rarely see them because the nossies are usually so repulsed by them
>that they put them out of their misery quite quickly.
Agreed. V:TM Samedi are difficult to include, and often weak from a
combat standpoint. It's an exceptional storyteller who can contrive
a scenario that makes them both functional and interesting. I assume
that's what you meant by "suck". As to them "sucking" in Jyhad, well,
the clan and the discipline don't exist yet, so we can't really tell,
can we? If Thanatosis were to become a discipline that ties up
minions in the manner of Sensory Deprivation, etc.(see my other post),
then it could be quite scary in combination with Obf. Samedi would
need some source for bleed modifiers to take advantage, though. Also,
necromancy would need a boost to be at all helpful to them...
>>I'm looking forward to see the date (in Scrye magazine) to know when the
>>expansion will be released in stores.>Scrye sucks, but other than that I wouldn't expect to see it until the end>of the year and I wouldn't plan on any new clans. They can barely hand the
>ones they've got. Also on a side note, they probably won't bring in the
>other clans because they're not truly clans. Case in point are the
>Gargoyles which they made allies. All of the clans represented now are part
>of the original 13 clans (minus the Capadocians who are now the Giovanni,
>and the Salubri, who are so rare that there are only 8 of them in existence
>and all at the same generation which would make for a very bland clan to add
>to this game).
>All of the other 12 have been represented, what would be interesting however
>would be to see Tzimsce and Lasombra Antribu, who are semi-cammy, but for
>this games purposes are non cammy and it would suit them better to just make
>more sabbat versions.
Neh. Not even necessary. Ideally, I'd like to see the sort of vamp
distribution you allude to below. Yeah, the !Tzi and !Las would have
perfect discipline overlap, but WotC doesn't need to introduce this
sort of political dynamic, they've got issues with their current clan
set to deal with first (meaning, not enough vmps to select from). I'd
like to see the simple inclusion of each expansion clan with a 4 cap
with inferior in clan disciplines, and a 6 cap. with all superior in
clan disciplines (for those clans that don't already have them). If
they kept the overall capacities down, that would help too. (DS and
AH expansion of the Camarilla was typically biased high in capacity).
I'd be perfectly happy to see no additional Camarilla clan vampires.
>>
>>If the expansion only expand the traditional Camarilla clans (Gangrel,
>>Brujah, ...) ... well that's okay. I don't feel that they need new>vampires.>>Maybe some new clan cards and discipline cards would be welcome. More votes
>>too could be good.>if they expand on the basic stuff, they're going to have a lot of pissed off
>players and they better not add to the vampire counts of those clans because
>they're overbalanced in options right now as it is. The game does need some
>"balance" to the other clans/disciplines. I'd really expect to see 3 to 4
>vamps from the 4 expansion clans, 2 from the new sabbat clans (roughly make
>it 20 vamps in the set total because the Sabbat clans still have a smaller
>advantage over the expansion clans). and a larger number of cards in the
>base set that are discipline required to fill in the open slots. Ideally
>when they're done, all disciplines and clans would have an equal number of
>cards of that type as a choice(example. If there's X different obfuscate
>cards to choose from after all sets are released, there's garaunteed X
>protean cards, X Celerity, X potence... etc.) Whether they're bright enough
>to follow this is unknown though. And then again I have no idea what they're
>planning.
I suspect that it's wishful thinking to expect to see this many cards
in the expansion (I get the feeling you do, too) but if it does, this
is a good theoretical model of what the game needs. I'd add, though
that disciplineless cards that specified Independant/Sabbat clans as
being the benfactors, or Camarilla clans being the victims would help
the cause of _all_ the expansion clans simultaneously, and perhaps
give a player pause for thought on whether to go Camarilla, or not.
(something like "Judgement: Sabbat Segregation"...?)
As to the disciplined cards that need to be added, I'd prefer to see
expansion disciplines(chi, nec, qui, ser, dem, obt, vis) get a round
of cards, before they strike a balance of cards among the whole set of
disciplines, as you detailed above. If there aren't enough card slots
to the expansion to make a reasonable try at the balance that you
seek, then the cards are better spent trying to shore up the
underpowered disciplines as they stand today. (Said differently: I'd
rather see a good (useful) necromancy card than another fortitude
damage prevention source...;-)
Regards,
R. David Zopf
guenh...@mindspring.com
Atom Weaver and V:EKN Prince of Charlotte, NC
>Agreed. V:TM Samedi are difficult to include, and often weak from a
>combat standpoint. It's an exceptional storyteller who can contrive
>a scenario that makes them both functional and interesting. I assume
>that's what you meant by "suck". As to them "sucking" in Jyhad, well,
>the clan and the discipline don't exist yet, so we can't really tell,
>can we? If Thanatosis were to become a discipline that ties up
>minions in the manner of Sensory Deprivation, etc.(see my other post),
>then it could be quite scary in combination with Obf. Samedi would
>need some source for bleed modifiers to take advantage, though. Also,
>necromancy would need a boost to be at all helpful to them...
>
No, by sucking I meant they were worse to play than the nossies in that they
were more difficult to handle as characters. They're worse looking than the
nossie, in fact they are the walking dead for all intents and purposes, and
contain the powers of the Giovanni which are the 2 clans the Samedi Spawned
from.
other than that I agree with everything you said, including the "wishful"
thinking on my part. The smaller the better, but when you look at the
smalles set Wizards ever produced as being just under 90 cards(not from
Jyhad/V:tES) the likelihood of a jyhad set being smaller is either increased
to minimal proportions (ie a promo set)or is roughly held at 100 cards.
Anything less and I would expect some serious aspects to be missing, perhaps
this would include, or not include rather, the kindred themselves and make
it exclusively a "library" set. Or you could go a complete opposite and
follow the route of their other promos in the release of an all kindred set
(which actually sounds really good the more I think about it). The reasons
are that it could be kept small and still even out the clans. It would add
more variety to the vampires seen(some tend to show up more than others
right now due to their powers). And would "flesh" out the expansionary
clans quite easily. Perhaps we may not see any new "neat" concepts in the
game (other than maybe a good vampire power many kindred may posses as a
base ability). But only 4 disicplines worth of cards need to be dealt with
to any extend and it doesn't seem worthwhile to do that. A 60 card set
split among the 6 lightly dealt with clans (not including the ! clans
although I would debate some things like the need for more !malkie because
they are basically different in comparison to the cammy malkie.)
Vince
In article <7a3a66$5lq@simba>,
"Vince Johnson" <john...@tcnj.edu> wrote:
[re Samedi]
> No, by sucking I meant they were worse to play than the nossies in that they
> were more difficult to handle as characters. They're worse looking than the
> nossie, in fact they are the walking dead for all intents and purposes, and
> contain the powers of the Giovanni which are the 2 clans the Samedi Spawned
> from.
OT Flavor note:
Or they're Cappadocians who have degenerated to the sorry state they're in
now.
</note>
I'll just add my hopes that it's more geared toward expanding the less
fleshed- out clans and disciplines. It can be done...hopefully it will.
Xian, who wants the Lasombra to kick more ass...and who needs more (than the
one) Political Struggle(s) (he has)...
[ quoted text not captured ]
>
>Or they're Cappadocians who have degenerated to the sorry state they're in
>now.
>
Actually no. The cappadocians were the weaker because the Giovanni was a
ghoul clan that forced the higher generation vampires to sire them and then
killed off the entire population of Cappadocians. The Giovanni aren't
typically one of the original clans, but they fall into the category of a
pure strain, unlike the Gargoyles, which are Gangrel/Nossie (or
Tzimsce/Nossie depending on which book you look in), or Samedi, who are
Nossie/Giovanni. There are other non-pure strains but these are two of the
bigger examples of the mixing of blood during the embrace.
Vince
In article <7a3p8o$5rd$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
xi...@waste.org (Xian) wrote:
> Xian, who wants the Lasombra to kick more ass...and who needs more (than the
> one) Political Struggle(s) (he has)...
Try Korvashan. He sells them for a buck if I remember right. I bought 4 to
go with the other 2 that I already had. And they work great in the combat
heavy environment my goup is. :)
Mike
--
Mike Bohlmann, MAIP - Prince of Urbana-Champaign
http://www.shout.net/~mbohlman/[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <36C2FF7F...@earthlink.net>, Robert Goudie
<rrgo...@earthlink.net> writes
>> However, rough guesses based on what has been implied/inferred by both
>> sides would hit at somewhere around 80-100 (with 100 being probably too
>> high).>
>Far fewer than this estimate. I'll let others do the math, but I think
>the cards for the inactive games will be on extra space during other
>games' print runs or by having all inactive games share one sheet. This
>is unconfirmed. However it would lead you to believe that we might see,
>maybe 25 cards or so. No one from WotC has publicly called it a
>mini-expansion or given any concrete numbers about the new cards.
WotC UK, TSR and RPGA (UK) representatives have, when approached in an
unofficial capacity recently, given me something which amounts to the
following:
There will be three expansions, one for V:TES, one for Netrunner, one
for Spellfire.
The possibility of distributing all three in one display box (but
separate boosters) is being considered. Various distributors appear to
have balked at this idea, and have said something along the line of that
they may well consider splitting the boxes and selling the boosters
separately. This is because of needing to target the players. Germany
is *rabid* for Spellfire, and will outsell any Magic expansion there,
apparently. Similarly, both Austria and Portugal would do much better
for V:TES. My (lack of) knowledge of Netrunner precludes me from
suggesting a market-place to target for it.
The size of all three print-runs is likely to be very similar.
Having this, a Spellfire expansion of 25 cards would be almost
impossible to manage (this being the rep's area of expertise), since it
would be equivalent to the ultra rare <<chase?>> cards printed with
other expansions. Something more in the line of 40-50 cards would be
expected, as, perhaps, a lower bound (this area of numbers being
suggested by the rep I spoke to).
--
James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England)
Vampire: Elder Kindred Network
http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net
In article <36C47857...@earthlink.net>, Robert Goudie
<rrgo...@earthlink.net> writes
>I'm really trying to make sure people's expectations are not too high.
>WotC has said that we'll see new cards by October '99. They didn't say
>anything about an expansion nor did they mention anything about
>distribution through stores.
This is in direct contrast to what has been told to people in the UK
(see my other post in this thread). Distribution through stores and an
expansion have *both* been mentioned by WotC employees, and
subsidiaries, in this country.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Hello,
I heard that the name of this new expansion will be CRUSADE. I also
heard that Wizrads could go out two expansions this year (Crusade and a
another) ...
Bye; bye...
Vince Johnson wrote in message <7a47gp$dtt@simba>...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Actually nobody knows. The Samedi bloodline was founded by the mysterious
Baron Samedi and he could be from any clan. Cappadocians or Nosferatu are
just the most obvious guesses. There is nothing to suggest that they were
breed like Gargoyles (who were created with Tremere rituals) rather than
embraced by Baron Samedi and his progeny.
FC
via...@club-internet.fr wrote:
[ quoted text not captured ]
Crusade is the name of the Battletech expansion that may see the light of
day this year if sales pick up on that line. AFAIK this particular
expansion is ready and waiting to go, by was/is unviably expensive to
release. 'Payback' was the battletech expansion listed after Crusade.
I think you have your gamelines mixed up sir.
matt.
Vince Johnson wrote:
> Actually no. The cappadocians were the weaker because the Giovanni was a
> ghoul clan that forced the higher generation vampires to sire them and then
> killed off the entire population of Cappadocians. The Giovanni aren't
> typically one of the original clans, but they fall into the category of a
> pure strain, unlike the Gargoyles, which are Gangrel/Nossie (or
> Tzimsce/Nossie depending on which book you look in), or Samedi, who are
> Nossie/Giovanni. There are other non-pure strains but these are two of the
> bigger examples of the mixing of blood during the embrace.
Mmh...
The Gio's never forced Cappadocius to Embrace them (cf CB Giovanni & CB
Cappadocians)
The Gargoyles are supposed to be Nos/Gangrel according to the 1st ed.
ST handbook, but then it might have been altered in later sourcebooks.
But where did you read anything precise about Nossies being related to
Samedi ? (I know, "just take a long, hard, nauseous look at'em", but
apart from that I can't think of any "official" evidence)
L~R
Actually, Crusade is already in stores.
Quick question, where can you find the WotC release schedule?
--Vernon Putman
( t...@slip.net )
[ quoted text not captured ]