Hi All,
I have a really weird question... I have no idea if this scenario would
work, or how it would, hence i am asking...
Let's say I play Mind Rape on my prey's Donal O'Connor who is full of
blood and the next turn i get him to use. The first thing i do is
Minion Tap Donal for x-3 (where x is Donal's curent blood amount) and
then I use Donal to play Return to Innocence on my prey. The second
thing i do is play Banishment on Donal (with Donal voting for it *grin*)
and it passes. Donal goes uncontrolled and RTI goes with him. Does RTI
go away? Donal is not in torpor and he isn't losing any blood (unless
my prey transfers OFF of him). If my prey transfers Donal back out,
would the RTI kick in on my next untap phase or would it kick in
immediately or would it just go away since my "next" untap phase
happened without Donal in the controlled area?
Just curious if this would work...
Thanks!
Mari
CARD TEXT:
Mind Rape [Sabbat, SW]
Cardtype: Action
Cost: 2 blood
Discipline: Dominate
(D) Bleed with +2 bleed. (S) (D) Put this card on a younger vampire,
and tap that vampire. The vampire with this card does not untap as
normal during his or her controller's untap phase. During the acting
vampire's controller's next minion phase, he or she must burn this
card to untap the vampire and take control of the vampire until the
end of his or her turn.
The Return to Innocence [AH]
Cardtype: Action
Cost: 4 blood
{(D) Bleed. If you successfully bleed your prey for one or more, put
this card on the acting vampire. Burn this card if this vampire loses
any blood or goes to torpor, or if your prey is ousted. During your
next untap, this vampire is removed from play and your prey burns X
pool, where X is the capacity of this vampire.}
Banishment [DS]
Cardtype: Political Action
Political Card-Worth 1 Vote. Called by any vampire at +1 stealth.
Choose a ready vampire. Successful <referendum> means that vampire is
moved <to the uncontrolled> region (place him or her face down). The
vampire is uncontrolled. The vampire's blood counters, master cards,
and minion cards stay with that vampire, [with any counters they have
on them (minion cards are out of play as long as the vampire remains
uncontrolled)].
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
tinkrb...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I have a really weird question... I have no idea if this scenario
> would work, or how it would, hence i am asking...
>
> Let's say I play Mind Rape on my prey's Donal O'Connor who is full of
> blood and the next turn i get him to use. The first thing i do is
> Minion Tap Donal for x-3 (where x is Donal's curent blood amount) and
Not legal, since you don't get Donal until you minion phase, at which
time it's too late to play Minion Tap (a master card).
> then I use Donal to play Return to Innocence on my prey. The second
> thing i do is play Banishment on Donal (with Donal voting for it
> *grin*) and it passes. Donal goes uncontrolled and RTI goes with him.
> Does RTI go away? Donal is not in torpor and he isn't losing any
It stays withg him, but is out of play for as long as Donal is
uncontrolled.
> blood (unless my prey transfers OFF of him). If my prey transfers
> Donal back out, would the RTI kick in on my next untap phase or would
> it kick in immediately or would it just go away since my "next" untap
> phase happened without Donal in the controlled area?
If your prey transfers Donal back out, RtI would kick in on
her next untap phase (The "you" on card text refers to the controller
of the card, and that's the controller of the Donal since RtI is
a minion card).
It wouldn't kick in with Donal still uncontrolled, since the
card is out of play.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <95ruru$m3q$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
tinkrb...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have a really weird question... I have no idea if this scenario
would
> work, or how it would, hence i am asking...
>
> Let's say I play Mind Rape on my prey's Donal O'Connor who is full of
> blood and the next turn i get him to use. The first thing i do is
> Minion Tap Donal for x-3
Sadly, you can't, since you gain control of Donal during your Minion
Phase (Untap, Master, Minion, Influence, Discard) he is ineligible for
the Minion Tap.
>(where x is Donal's curent blood amount) and
> then I use Donal to play Return to Innocence on my prey.
Okay.
>The second
> thing i do is play Banishment on Donal (with Donal voting for it
*grin*)
> and it passes. Donal goes uncontrolled and RTI goes with him.
Back to his original controller's uncontrolled region. When a vmapire
is Banished, all the cards on him (ususally equipment, titles,
retainers, and/or Masters) are considered out of play until the vamp is
re-influenced. I would assume this includes the RTI. Thus, RTI would
be ignored (and I believe only postponed, not permanently removed)
unless Donal was (foolishly) reinfluenced.
>Does RTI
> go away? Donal is not in torpor and he isn't losing any blood (unless
> my prey transfers OFF of him). If my prey transfers Donal back out,
> would the RTI kick in on my next untap phase or would it kick in
> immediately or would it just go away since my "next" untap phase
> happened without Donal in the controlled area?
>
> Just curious if this would work...
>
It seems like it would be a guaranteed way of not having a prey re-
influence a pesky vampire. But, you would have to devise a way other
than Minion Tap to get the vamp to exactly zero... Hrmm. On second
thought, they might be able to influence one blood onto them, and then
use two influence to remove it, resulting in a "loss of Blood", within
a single Influence phase. Pretty sure that ruins the combo. Hey
Scott, what's your thought on this influence scenario? Does it count
as a "loss of blood" that gets rid of the RTI safely?
--
Regards,
R. David Zopf
Atom Weaver
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <95s07o$nks$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Atom Weaver <atomw...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <95ruru$m3q$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
<SNIP of some answers and the fairly obvious Minion Tap problem *grin*>
>
> It seems like it would be a guaranteed way of not having a prey re-
> influence a pesky vampire. But, you would have to devise a way other
> than Minion Tap to get the vamp to exactly zero... Hrmm. On second
> thought, they might be able to influence one blood onto them, and then
> use two influence to remove it, resulting in a "loss of Blood", within
> a single Influence phase. Pretty sure that ruins the combo. Hey
> Scott, what's your thought on this influence scenario? Does it count
> as a "loss of blood" that gets rid of the RTI safely?
Actually I had thought of this already...i figured that since the RTI is
technically out of play, the loss of blood wouldn't matter because the
card is not really there at that point... does that make sense?
'course i could be wrong *grin*
Mari
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <95s133$oep$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
tinkrb...@my-deja.com wrote:
snip
>
> Actually I had thought of this already...i figured that since the RTI
is
> technically out of play, the loss of blood wouldn't matter because the
> card is not really there at that point... does that make sense?
>
That's sensible. So the blood loss to remove RTI would have to occur
sometime between the end of the phase when the vamp was re-influenced
(comes into play) and the end of that players next untap (assuming that
the player would choose to order the RTI effect last). Otherwise,
kaboom.
--
Regards,
R. David Zopf
Atom Weaver
[ quoted text not captured ]
Atom Weaver <atomw...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> That's sensible. So the blood loss to remove RTI would have to occur
> sometime between the end of the phase when the vamp was re-influenced
> (comes into play) and the end of that players next untap (assuming
> that the player would choose to order the RTI effect last).
> Otherwise, kaboom.
Correct.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/[ quoted text not captured ]
>> That's sensible. So the blood loss to remove RTI would have to occur
>> sometime between the end of the phase when the vamp was re-influenced
>> (comes into play) and the end of that players next untap (assuming
>> that the player would choose to order the RTI effect last).
>> Otherwise, kaboom.
Since excess blood drains off after the vampire is re-influenced (and after
appropriate card effects come back into play), would putting an extra blood on
Donal count as a "blood loss?" Or is the draining off of excess blood
considered something else?
Halcyan 2
>It seems like it would be a guaranteed way of not having a prey re-
>influence a pesky vampire. But, you would have to devise a way other
>than Minion Tap to get the vamp to exactly zero... Hrmm.
Well, if to steal Spiridonas, you can use his ability to burn off all his blood
(talk about adding insult to injury with all that + bleed!). Alternatively, you
can use Rave in combination with some degree of Fortitude. You'd either need to
take vampires already with Fortitude, use Dauntain Black Magician to move
Fortitude skill cards, or move around Infernal Familiars.
Of course the easiest and most obvious way to get the blood off is using our
favorite Heidelburg Castle, Germany.
On a different note, since the RtI is a minion card and after Mind Rape wears
off RtI is controlled by your prey. If your prey influences out the vampire
back again and RtI finally kicks in, since it's controlled by your prey,
wouldn't the pool burn go to *his* prey (your grandprey)? LSJ?
Halcyan 2
In article <20010207171720...@ng-mq1.aol.com>,
halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote:
> Since excess blood drains off after the vampire is re-influenced (and
after
> appropriate card effects come back into play), would putting an extra
blood on
> Donal count as a "blood loss?" Or is the draining off of excess blood
> considered something else?
>
> Halcyan 2
I'd say no it doesn't count as "losing blood", since RTI (being a minion
card) would not be in play until the Vamp is re-influenced in and in
play. If what you're suggesting will work, then by the same logic, I
can reinfluence a Banished Vamp with Discipline cards on him at a higher
amount equal to his printed capacity PLUS the Discipline cards and the
excess blood wouldn't fall off because the discipline cards would be in
effect by the time the blood had to fall off. Does that make sense?
Mari
Playing VTES tonight... woo hoo!
[ quoted text not captured ]
>I'd say no it doesn't count as "losing blood", since RTI (being a minion
>card) would not be in play until the Vamp is re-influenced in and in
>play. If what you're suggesting will work, then by the same logic, I
>can reinfluence a Banished Vamp with Discipline cards on him at a higher
>amount equal to his printed capacity PLUS the Discipline cards and the
>excess blood wouldn't fall off because the discipline cards would be in
>effect by the time the blood had to fall off. Does that make sense?
Well, the thing is, a while back I already asked LSJ that very question (about
whether the discipline cards take into effect before or after the draining of
blood), and he said that the discipline cards increase capacity before the
blood drains off. Thus I was simply seeing if that previous ruling extended to
the case of RtI.
Halcyan 2
[ quoted text not captured ]
Correct. The blood drining off would be noticed by RtI.
Whether that counts as losing blood is open to debate, but the
ruling for now is that it does. I'll put it on the RT list for
review.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. ERC
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/[ quoted text not captured ]
tinkrb...@my-deja.com wrote:
> If what you're suggesting will work, then by the same logic, I
> can reinfluence a Banished Vamp with Discipline cards on him at
> a higher amount equal to his printed capacity PLUS the Discipline
> cards and the excess blood wouldn't fall off because the discipline
> cards would be in effect by the time the blood had to fall off.
> Does that make sense?
Yes, it does. Allow me to explain why.
Say, Jost Werner has been given an extra Animalism card and two
Vicissitude cards, making him a 9 cap while in play. If he gets
Banished, those extra cards are out of play and he is back to being a 6
cap.
Now, the VTES rulebook says, "At the end of your influence phase, any
vampire in your uncontrolled region with a number of blood counters on
him equal to (or more than) his capacity becomes controlled." This makes
it clear that you _can_ xfer more pool to a vampire than its capacity.
It then goes on to say, "The vampire is turned faceup and moved to the
ready region, untapped. The blood counters are kept on him to represent
his blood (counters in excess of his capacity drain off immediately as
usual)."
Which means that the blood doesn't fall off until immediately after the
vampire is put into play, along with the discipline cards that raise his
capacity back to 9. If he has more than 9 blood on him, the excess would
drain off.
Hope this helps,
Noal McDonald
Prince of Metro Detroit, MI
--
"I was probably pretty young, when I realised that I had come from
what you might call a family, a clan, a race, maybe even a species,
of pure sons of bitches."
--Faulkner, "The Mansion"
[ quoted text not captured ]