Heaven's Gate vs. Shambling Hordes

My apologies, if this point has been cleared before, I couldn't find it (at least not with HG vs. SH author: LSJ). I'm not sure, if rescuing SH with HG makes sense. HG gives the saved ally 1 or 2 life from the blood bank, if it has no life after burning in combat. SH says it "can never gain life counters". Does a Shambling Horde which burned in combat by losing it's last life counter and was moved to the controller's uncontrolled region through playing Heaven's Gate burn again right away because it does not have life and could not gain new life counters? Thank you. Heaven`s Gate, Combat, 1 blood, Obeah/Necromancy Only usable by a ready untapped vampire not involved in combat. [nec] prevent 1 damage to an ally in combat. [obe] Only usable when an ally is burned in combat. Move that ally to his or her controller`s uncontrolled region (controlled, but not ready) instead. Put 1 life on the ally from the blood bank if he or she has no life. [OBE] As [obe] above, but add up to 2 life to the ally, not to exceed his or her starting amount. Shambling Hordes, Ally, 3 blood, Necromancy Zombie with 3 life. 0 bleed, 0 strength. [nec] When Shambling Hordes enters play, remove an ally or vampire in your ash heap from the game or burn Shambling Hordes. Shambling Hordes gets +1 strength for each life counter it has. Shambling Hordes can never gain life counters; any life counters it gains go to the blood bank instead. Shambling Hordes can enter combat with any ready minion controlled by another Methuselah as a (D) action. [NEC] As above, with 4 life.

Joscha wrote: > My apologies, if this point has been cleared before, I couldn't find it > (at least not with HG vs. SH author: LSJ). > > I'm not sure, if rescuing SH with HG makes sense. HG gives the saved > ally 1 or 2 life from the blood bank, if it has no life after burning > in combat. SH says it "can never gain life counters". > Does a Shambling Horde which burned in combat by losing it's last life > counter and was moved to the controller's uncontrolled region through > playing Heaven's Gate burn again right away because it does not have > life and could not gain new life counters? Yes. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/c5f2e7de5653c21a Google: "shambling gate author:LSJ" When googling, use whole words, not abbreviations -- no "HG", "vs." or "SH". I try to make sure all of my posts that use abbreviations for cards also include the card name at least once. -- That is my story, be it bitter or be it sweet. Keep a little and let a little come back to me. LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

In message <1139134535.4...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Joscha <joscha...@gmx.de> writes: >My apologies, if this point has been cleared before, I couldn't find it >(at least not with HG vs. SH author: LSJ). Don't put in "vs". That's how you phrase it, but other people wouldn't. <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/b4244a 6b480ebf41> from "heaven's gate shambling author:LSJ" Raille wrote, and LSJ responded: > So if this is played on a Shambling Horde what effect does it have? The Horde is moved to the uncontrolled region. The life that Heaven's Gate tries to add to the Horde rolls off, due to the card text on the Horde. If the Horde is empty (as opposed to having been burned by a "burn ally" effect), then it still burns, since it still has no life. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

"LSJ" <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message news:SIlFf.6346$Nv2....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net... [ quoted text not captured ] I think your going too far with the ruling concerning Heaven Gate and Shambling hordes. Since the Shambling Horde has been burned when the HG is played, it should fall within the normal card play restrictions. Which is the same for when you recruit the Shambling hordes in the first place. When you recruit the SH by default you MUST ignore its own card text, or it would burn as soon as the action is completed, not being able to gain life, which is a requirement to remain in play. To be targeted by HG the shambling horde has been burned, hence removed from play, althought not the game, and the effects of HG should return the Sh to play after you burn a minion, and thus placing 1/2 life back on the hordes. Its not much different that the example with Compel the Spirit, as both HG and Compel target a burned card. Raille

Raille wrote: [snip] > To be targeted by HG the shambling horde has been burned, hence removed from > play, althought not the game, > and the effects of HG should return the Sh to play after you burn a minion, > and thus placing 1/2 life back on the hordes. except, from HG's own text: "Only usable when an ally is burned in combat. Move that ally to his or her controller`s uncontrolled region (controlled, but not ready) instead." Note the word "instead". It is never really burned. It's more just 'being burned but something else happens, *instead*'. -- salem http://users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/vtes/ (replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)

"Salem" <salem_ch...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:43e665bd$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au... [ quoted text not captured ] I guess I'm being to literal when I read that. Its "usable when an ally is burned in combat." There's a period there, so I take that as a segment thats resolved before continueing. Would or does it really make a difference with the inclusion or exculsion of the word 'instead'? Raille

Raille wrote: > I guess I'm being to literal when I read that. Its "usable when an ally is > burned in combat." There's a period there, so I take that as a segment > thats resolved before continueing. So if the ally had had a Sport Bike, you'd leave the Sport Bike in the ash heap? He doesn't leave play, so he keeps his equipment and still can't gain life. > Would or does it really make a difference with the inclusion or exculsion of > the word 'instead'? If the card were retrieved from the ash heap, it could, in theory get a life. Like if you Compel the Spirit. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/c5f2e7de5653c21a http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/e6bc8077d9dd40cb [ quoted text not captured ]

Am I right in thinking then that a Reanimated Corpse keeps its pathos counters if saved with Heavens Gate ? I hope so as I think there's some mileage to be had from Reanimated Corpse/Renewed Vigor/Spirit Marionette.

Incarnadyne wrote: > Am I right in thinking then that a Reanimated Corpse keeps its pathos > counters if saved with Heavens Gate ? Yes. The ally saved with Heaven's Gate doesn't leave play -- it keeps whatever it has. > I hope so as I think there's some mileage to be had from Reanimated > Corpse/Renewed Vigor/Spirit Marionette. How so?

Nothing tricky, just a quick way to fill up the vampires you empty by playing big Reanimated Corpses. Spirit Marionette obviously also requires Heidelburg (doesn't it always). I tried using big corpses with Memories of Mortality for a reasonable Computer Hacking ally bleed, but didn't include enough bounce to stay alive long enough.

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:1139231249....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] You Renewed Vigor to refill the Samedi who blew out his supply of blood for corpse counters and keep the corpse alive with Heaven's Gate. I'm not sure exactly what the Spirit Marionette is for but I imagine it has to do with tapping potential blockers to the Corpse. (Heh! Already built something like this. Maybe I'll take a closer look at the Marionettes...) Fred

[ quoted text not captured ] interesting. I collected a bunch of reanimated corpses, but didn't know how exactly i was going to implement them. mix with Salubri, you say? I might give that a try (and samedi have for, as do salubri, and the corpse can play for combat cards...) [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <43e9...@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, Salem <salem_ch...@hotmail.com> writes: >interesting. I collected a bunch of reanimated corpses, but didn't know >how exactly i was going to implement them. mix with Salubri, you say? I >might give that a try (and samedi have for, as do salubri, and the >corpse can play for combat cards...) If you're going for Bloodlines rather than Legacies, Matthias has necromancy for extra cross-over capability. You can put together a Salubri/Samedi Necromancy/Fortitude Anarch Friend of Mine Deck of Doom[0]! -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION. [0] Warning: may not contain doom.

James Coupe wrote: > In message <43e9...@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, Salem > <salem_ch...@hotmail.com> writes: >>interesting. I collected a bunch of reanimated corpses, but didn't know >>how exactly i was going to implement them. mix with Salubri, you say? I >>might give that a try (and samedi have for, as do salubri, and the >>corpse can play for combat cards...) > > If you're going for Bloodlines rather than Legacies, Matthias has > necromancy for extra cross-over capability. > > You can put together a Salubri/Samedi Necromancy/Fortitude Anarch Friend > of Mine Deck of Doom[0]! > ahh hee hee hee. i actually lol'd at the "[0] warning: may not contain doom" bit. But back on topic, the g2 samedi don't have too much nec, do they? and i already have a g2 samedi deck....although, from the g4 angle, i don't actually own any genina, so that'll suck when trying that. i guess a Baron/Matthias deck should be ok. they're both pretty solid vamps in their own rights. But i may just skip out on the Friend of Mine. [ quoted text not captured ]