Rotschreck vs. Dawn Operation

In order to use Rotschreck against a vampire that is dealing aggravated damage, what is considered the attempt. As soon as the action is announced, or if the vampire actually does aggravated damage during combat (You may opt to use a strike: dodge or strike: combat ends or perhaps even a change of target. I am sure I will get mixed results on this card because of all the controversy of the wording of the text on Rotschreck and the definition as defined in the role-playing game. ^ ^ | ^ \|/ ha...@shadow.net <---x---> Scott Marcellus /|\ http://www.shadow.net/~havok V | V V

ha...@shadow.net (Scott Marcellus) wrote: >In order to use Rotschreck against a vampire that is dealing >aggravated damage, what is considered the attempt. As soon as the >action is announced, or if the vampire actually does aggravated damage >during combat (You may opt to use a strike: dodge or strike: combat >ends or perhaps even a change of target. I am sure I will get mixed >results on this card because of all the controversy of the wording of >the text on Rotschreck and the definition as defined in the >role-playing game. Well, the way we played it the other night, the old "Red Terror" came about right after a strike was played. To be specific, my Ventrue predator's bleed was Deflected to my Gangrel prey. The Ventrue played Dawn Operation and the Gangrel agreed to continue combat. Nobody maneuvered, and as soon as the Ventrue said, "Strike with hand," the Rotschreck came flying out of my hand and the evil Ventrue bleeder made a Trip to Torporland. Was this correct, O Wise And Powerful Rulesmongers? ------------------------------- --------------------------------------- Scoundrel "Omni mutantur, nihil interit." a.k.a. Chuck Kallenbach II Everything changes, scou...@inlink.com but nothing is truly lost. http://www.inlink.com/~scoundrl --"Exiles," Neil Gaiman, Sandman #74 =============================== =======================================

Scott Marcellus (ha...@shadow.net) wrote: : In order to use Rotschreck against a vampire that is dealing : aggravated damage, what is considered the attempt. As soon as the : action is announced, or if the vampire actually does aggravated damage : during combat (You may opt to use a strike: dodge or strike: combat : ends or perhaps even a change of target. I am sure I will get mixed : results on this card because of all the controversy of the wording of : the text on Rotschreck and the definition as defined in the : role-playing game. That's probably why they banned it. My opionion, based upon the fact that you MUST deal damage in combat if possible (according to RTR) would be that once Dawn Operation is played, it has been attempted by any Vampire not Dodging or S:CE. But I could see points either way.

ha...@shadow.net (Scott Marcellus) writes: >In order to use Rotschreck against a vampire that is dealing >aggravated damage, what is considered the attempt. As soon as the >action is announced, or if the vampire actually does aggravated damage >during combat (You may opt to use a strike: dodge or strike: combat >ends or perhaps even a change of target. I am sure I will get mixed >results on this card because of all the controversy of the wording of >the text on Rotschreck and the definition as defined in the >role-playing game. Any announced attempt to deal aggravated damage, regardless of the effectiveness of the attempt, is suitable for Rotschreck. Change of Target will supercede this, however, since it is played before the chance to announce aggravated attempts. Dodges and S:CE do not prevent the attempt, however, and do not deny the playing of Rotschreck (if the strike that was Dodged would have done aggaravted damage, of course). -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | DejaFu - http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | The feeling that things have Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | been this FU'ed before.

Brian Walker <ma...@clubmet.metrobbs.com> wrote: >: In order to use Rotschreck against a vampire that is dealing >: aggravated damage, what is considered the attempt. As soon as the >: action is announced, or if the vampire actually does aggravated damage >: during combat (You may opt to use a strike: dodge or strike: combat >: ends or perhaps even a change of target. I am sure I will get mixed >: results on this card because of all the controversy of the wording of >: the text on Rotschreck and the definition as defined in the >: role-playing game. >That's probably why they banned it. My opionion, based upon the fact that >you MUST deal damage in combat if possible (according to RTR) would be >that once Dawn Operation is played, it has been attempted by any Vampire >not Dodging or S:CE. But I could see points either way. You have the general idea, if your list of examples is a bit short. Rotschreck can be used whenever a damage-dealing strike is used while Dawn Operation is in effect, regardless of played the Op. Other examples of strikes that won't allow Rotschreck to be used are stealing blood or destroying equipment. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

scou...@inlink.com (Scoundrel (Chuck Kallenbach II)) writes: >ha...@shadow.net (Scott Marcellus) wrote: >>In order to use Rotschreck against a vampire that is dealing >>aggravated damage, what is considered the attempt. As soon as the >>action is announced, or if the vampire actually does aggravated damage >>during combat (You may opt to use a strike: dodge or strike: combat >>ends or perhaps even a change of target. I am sure I will get mixed >>results on this card because of all the controversy of the wording of >>the text on Rotschreck and the definition as defined in the >>role-playing game. >Well, the way we played it the other night, the old "Red Terror" came >about right after a strike was played. To be specific, my Ventrue >predator's bleed was Deflected to my Gangrel prey. The Ventrue played >Dawn Operation and the Gangrel agreed to continue combat. Nobody >maneuvered, and as soon as the Ventrue said, "Strike with hand," the >Rotschreck came flying out of my hand and the evil Ventrue bleeder >made a Trip to Torporland. >Was this correct, O Wise And Powerful Rulesmongers? You may have to wait 'til the strike resolution phase (forcing the Gangrel to choose a strike), but that's a gray area. It won't matter much either way. Your example seems perfect in all other respects. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | "The Borg assimilated my race and http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | all I got was this lousy T-shirt" [ quoted text not captured ]

> and as soon as the Ventrue said, "Strike with hand," the > Rotschreck came flying out of my hand and the evil Ventrue bleeder > made a Trip to Torporland. That sounds legal to me... because dawn operation (if I'm not mistaken) states that all damage dealt if that action is blocked is aggravated.. that hand damage was aggravated.. so, yes I think rotschreck would have been perfectly legal.. tjcombo rsfa...@mbnet.mb.ca

L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote: >You may have to wait 'til the strike resolution phase (forcing the >Gangrel to choose a strike), but that's a gray area. It won't matter >much either way. You use Rotschreck when a vampire chooses its strike, not when the strike resolves. [ quoted text not captured ]

Thomas R Wylie wrote: > > L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote: > >You may have to wait 'til the strike resolution phase (forcing the > >Gangrel to choose a strike), but that's a gray area. It won't matter > >much either way. > > You use Rotschreck when a vampire chooses its strike, not when the > strike resolves.What if the acting vampire plays a strike with agravated damage, and then play a card to do a srike, and then draw a Rotschrek? Can you then play the freshly draw Rotschreck? Also, what if they deal agravated damage with Dragon's Breath rounds, which are played during strike resolution?