After reading the rules several times, and seeing how many people have
trouble with the Voting rules both on-line and in local games, I've decided
to offer my input. If I were In Charge, here's how I would rewrite
section 17.1 on voting:
I have highlighted my changes to the text with [brackets.] The word count
is approximately the same as the original, and with a little more editing,
it could probably be brought down even more. I'd be interested in your
reactions to my changes.
17.1 Voting
When a political card is played as an action or a call made for bloodhunt
against a vampire committing diablerie, a vote is called. A vote is always
yes or no. [ When a vampire plays a political card as an action, that
vampire's Methuselah always gets one vote.]
[Political cards can also be used by any Methuselah to gain one vote for
each political card.] The actual effects of these cards are ignored. Cards
used this way are discarded to the ash heap, but [] not replaced until the
voting is finished. [ In addition to any votes provided by political cards,
each player gets the following votes for vampires under his or her control:]
1 for each ready Primogen
2 for each ready Prince
3 for each ready Justicar
If you have the Edge, you may relinquish the Edge to the center of the
table in return for the right to cast one extra vote.
[The vote is run by the player who played the vote card or called for
the vote.] People call out votes freely, for or against. Once a vote has
been cast, it cannot be changed. After fifteen seconds have gone by with no
new votes (give a three-second warning,) the vote is closed, and the results
are tallied. If a vote comes to a tie, it is merely treated as a lost vote.
A vote either passes or it doesn't.
There is no obligation to vote. [ Note that it is possible for a player
to have no votes at all.]
Political actions can be blocked as any other action can,[ but players
must decide whether to block before the acting player makes any choices about
the exact terms of the vote.] Political actions are never directed against
specific players and so may be blocked by the acting player's predator and
prey.
<trozycki@maroon.tc.umn.edu> writes:
> [ In addition to any votes provided by political cards, each player
> gets the following votes for vampires under his or her control:]> 1 for each ready Primogen
> 2 for each ready Prince
> 3 for each ready Justicar
Something that your rewrite didn't clear up (and that isn't clear in
the original rules, either) is whether or not you have to vote with all
of your vampires if you vote with any of them, and if all your votes
have to agree.
Why is this relevant? Suppose a vote is close -- everyone else has
voted but you haven't, and you are going to be the tiebreaker. You
throw in two YES votes with your prince. Someone opposed to the vote
offers you some kind of bribe to change it ("I won't bleed you next
turn"). You can't change your already-voted minion, but maybe you can
then vote NO with your Justicar, or throw in three NO political action
cards.
Is that allowed or not? I suspect it isn't. But what about more
subtle cases:
A vote has been called, and Bribes are out (you get a blood to your
pool from the bank if you vote in favor). You don't want the vote to
pass, but you do want that blood. There are a number of NO votes
already on the table, the current indication is that the vote will
fail, as you hoped, and one more YES isn't going to change that. Can
you:
1) Vote YES with a single Primogen, and leave the rest of your
vampires out of it?
2) Vote YES with a single political action card, and leave
*all* of your vampires out of it?
Brian
--
Brian Scearce bls@sector7g.eng.sun.com
The entire software industry runs on coffee just as much as it runs
on electricity. -- Dan Sorenson
Brian Scearce <bls@Eng.Sun.COM> wrote:
>Something that your rewrite didn't clear up (and that isn't clear in
>the original rules, either) is whether or not you have to vote with all
>of your vampires if you vote with any of them, and if all your votes
>have to agree.
You don't have to vote with all of them, and their votes don't have
to agree.
>pool from the bank if you vote in favor). You don't want the vote to
>pass, but you do want that blood. There are a number of NO votes
>already on the table, the current indication is that the vote will
>fail, as you hoped, and one more YES isn't going to change that. Can you:
> 1) Vote YES with a single Primogen, and leave the rest of your
> vampires out of it?
Sure.
> 2) Vote YES with a single political action card, and leave
> *all* of your vampires out of it?
Sure.
Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for
aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.