Combat Card Effects Question

I need an official ruling on this situation: The acting minion plays a Majesty and burns 1 blood to Untap. I know the blocking minion is allowed to do a hand strike or play a strike card, but if the blocking minion also plays a Majesty are they allowed to use its untap effect? Robert ...................................................................... :The opinions expressed here are strictly my own delusional ramblings: :and do not reflect the opinions of The Walt Disney Company. : : : :Robert Goudie robert...@studio.disney.com: :....................................................................: :cigars * v:tes * car rallies * scotch * sega rally champion * spoon : :....................................................................:

Robert Goudie (Robert...@studio.disney.com) wrote: : I need an official ruling on this situation: This is how _I_ understand it. Feel free to wait for a specific ruling. : The acting minion plays a Majesty and burns 1 blood to Untap. When they play a Majesty, combat ENDS. : I know the blocking minion is allowed to do a hand strike or play a : strike card, but if the blocking minion also plays a Majesty are they : allowed to use its untap effect? The blocking minion doesn't have the opportunity to play the Majesty in the first place, because combat has ended. In looking at the V:TES rules, I see that it states very specifically that a blocking minion (if an acting minion plays a combat ends card) may play a strike card, but that card will have no effect. In either interpretation, the blocking minion would not be able to untap. My gut reaction was that he wouldn't be able to play the Majesty in the first place. Basis of my understanding: Jyhad rulebook, special combat effects: Combat Ends: Considered a strike, this ends combat immediately V:TES rulebook, special combat effects: Combat Ends: This effect ends combat immediately before any damage is dealt or a strike card's effects take place. If the acting minion's strike is "combat ends", the blocking minion may still use a strike card, but this strike will have no effect. Note that "combat ends" is not affected by a dodge and cancels a first strike. -spongy

jam...@gw.digibd.com (James Puzzo) wrote: : Robert Goudie (Robert...@studio.disney.com) wrote: : : I need an official ruling on this situation: : : This is how _I_ understand it. Feel free to wait for a specific ruling. : : : The acting minion plays a Majesty and burns 1 blood to Untap. : : When they play a Majesty, combat ENDS. : : : I know the blocking minion is allowed to do a hand strike or play a : : strike card, but if the blocking minion also plays a Majesty are they : : allowed to use its untap effect? : : The blocking minion doesn't have the opportunity to play the Majesty in : the first place, because combat has ended. : : In looking at the V:TES rules, I see that it states very specifically that : a blocking minion (if an acting minion plays a combat ends card) may play : a strike card, but that card will have no effect. That isn't quite what it says. It says that the _strike_ will have no effect, not that the _entire card_ will have no effect. This leaves open the possibility that a defensive Majesty could be used to untap. Perhaps Tom would like to comment officially? : : In either interpretation, the blocking minion would not be able to untap. [ quoted text not captured ]

James Puzzo wrote: > > Robert Goudie (Robert...@studio.disney.com) wrote: > : I need an official ruling on this situation: > > This is how _I_ understand it. Feel free to wait for a specific ruling. [clip] > In either interpretation, the blocking minion would not be able to untap. > My gut reaction was that he wouldn't be able to play the Majesty in the > first place. I asked whether the blocking minion can play a Majesty and untap if the acting minion played a majesty also. The following is an email answer to my question from renowned Rulemonger L. Scott Johnson. >It is a side effect of the card, not part of the strike. So to summarize, the blocking minion does play a strike and the strike has no effect but any side-effects such as "untap this vampire" do take place. [ quoted text not captured ]

what follows is why i see a blocking vamp doesn't get to pay one blood to untap while using a superior majesty if the acting vamp plays a superior majesty... the following exerpt is taken from the V:tES starter-deck instruction booklet: 8.3. Special Combat Effects ... Combat Ends: This effect ends combat immediately before any damage is dealt or a strike card's effects take place. the following exerpt is taken from "V:tES Complete Rules Reference (version 2.5)" compiled by L. Scott Johnson: D. Strike. 1. Minions announce their strikes and the targets where applicable. a. Acting Minion announces Strike and Target before Blocking Minion does. ... 2. Resolve Strikes in the following order: a. Strike: Combat Ends. ... 3. Apply damage done by a strike. ... 4. Apply other effects of strikes (simultaneously with step 3). ... ... F. Combat Ends. okay, the acting vamp plays a superior majesty and the blocking vamp plays superior majesty (step D.1.a.). assuming (and this might be where i'm wrong) the acting vamp's strike is resolved before the blocking vamp's (even though damage is dealt simultaneously (might D.4. are simply skipped. combat ends (step F.) and the acting vamp may pay one blood to untap since this option happens simulataneously with the vamp ending combat. since combat is over, the blocking vamp's strike never happens. furthermore, the blocking vamp _doesn't_ get to pay one blood to untap since combat has ended "before any damage is dealt or a strike card's effects take place." i'd say paying one blood to untap is a strike card effect. this example can be extended to any effects on any strike: combat ends card. btw, kick butt job, L. Scott, for compliling all the rules and stuff! --V--V-- simulacrum "Modern art wishes to be negative, critical, innovative and a perpetual surpassing, as well as immediately (or almost) assimilated, accepted, integrated, consumed. One must surrender to the evidence: art no longer contests anything, if it ever did." -- Jean Baudrillard

In article <4oa213$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, Murcalumis <murca...@aol.com> wrote: >what follows is why i see a blocking vamp doesn't get to pay one blood to >untap while using a superior majesty if the acting vamp plays a superior >majesty... > >the following exerpt is taken from the V:tES starter-deck instruction >booklet: > >8.3. Special Combat Effects >... >Combat Ends: This effect ends combat immediately before any damage is >dealt or a strike card's effects take place. > >the following exerpt is taken from "V:tES Complete Rules Reference >(version 2.5)" compiled by L. Scott Johnson: > >D. Strike. > 2. Resolve Strikes in the following order: > a. Strike: Combat Ends. > >okay, the acting vamp plays a superior majesty and the blocking vamp plays >superior majesty (step D.1.a.). assuming (and this might be where i'm >wrong) the acting vamp's strike is resolved before the blocking vamp's They resolve simultaneously in D.2.a as well, which is why both the acting vampire and the blocker may pay one to untap with their respective majesties. (They both are the /first/ things to be resolved in strike resolution.) >btw, kick butt job, L. Scott, for compliling all the rules and stuff! Thanks.

>I need an official ruling on this situation: >The acting minion plays a Majesty and burns 1 blood to Untap. >I know the blocking minion is allowed to do a hand strike or play a >strike card, but if the blocking minion also plays a Majesty are they >allowed to use its untap effect? The acting minion's Strike: Combat Ends resolves immediately. Combat is over as soon as the acting minion plays Majesty and the blocking minion gets no strike. This means that the blocking minion does not get a chance to play a Majesty. Nick

On Tue, 28 May 1996 ni...@rci.rogers.com wrote: [RE: resolving S:CE] > The acting minion's Strike: Combat Ends resolves immediately. Combat is over > as soon as the acting minion plays Majesty and the blocking minion gets no > strike. This means that the blocking minion does not get a chance to play a > Majesty. This has changed. The opposing minion has the opportunity to declare strike, but the strike doesn't resolve. So, if the opposing minion desires, they can cycle a card. "I can send and receive e-mail even over the Internet"-aol commercial @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$ # Adrian Sullivan sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu Spoutingly yours 8^) # $ GAT/CS/O/WS R+++* tv&--- b++(+++)&+ t X++&-- 5->? e+*>++++ PS+&-+ @ # PE&++&- C(+++)$ UX+>+++$ N++(+) K+>++++ w---$>? M++$ r(+) z*+? 3.1# @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$

Subject: Re: Combat Card Effects Question From: ni...@rci.rogers.com Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 12:12:47 Message-ID: <nilee.7....@rci.rogers.com> >I need an official ruling on this situation: >The acting minion plays a Majesty and burns 1 blood to Untap. >I know the blocking minion is allowed to do a hand strike or play a >strike card, but if the blocking minion also plays a Majesty are they >allowed to use its untap effect? not only does the blocking minion get to choose a strike, any other effects (besides the "cancelled" strike) take effect. in other words, if the acting and blocking vamps both play the superior version of majesty, both strikes are resolved simultaneously: acting vamp ends combat and has the option to burn 1 blood to untap while the blocking vamp only has the option to burn 1 blood to untap since his/her strike is cancelled. note that the effects of earth meld, form of mist, and mummify (all superior strike: combat ends cards) would all work similarly. this might not be official but i asked this same question a couple weeks back and was surprised at l. scott johnson's (aka rulemonger) answer. after thinking about it i realized this makes sense because both vamps strikes, even though chosen at different times, resolve simultaneously. [ quoted text not captured ]