Vampire:the Eternal Puzzle

Hi, when I still played "that other game", I used to enjoy those puzzles by Mark Rosewater a lot. I came up with a puzzle for Vampire and the people in the forum at vekn.de seemed to like it. I did a quick translation into English, so that other people also have a chance to take a shot at it. Here we go, have fun: Mission:Impossible It was a long and drawn-out game, the libraries are depleted and the end is near. Only two players are left (with one VP each) and you are one of them. You are at the beginning of your untap phase and the situation is bleak... but surrender is not an option! IN PLAY: You: (Edge, 1 Pool) ---- Raful al-Zarqa with Pulse of Canaille and Laptop, 0 blood Ozmo with Society of Leopold, 2 blood Cassandra, Magus Prime, 0 blood Julius with Laptop, J.S. Simmons, Tasha Morgan, Serpentis Skill Card, 2 blood Aabbt Kindred, 1 blood Elder Library Opponent: (5 Pool) --------- Lambach with Raven Spy, tapped, 7 blood Horatio, tapped, 0 blood Antediluvian Awakening Anarch Revolt The Parthenon HAND: You: ---- The Coven Millicent Smith Minion Tap Obfuscate Ancilla Empowerment Mark of the Damned Awe Form of the Serpent Daring the Dawn Opponent: (you looked with Pulse of Canaille at inf last round) --------- Guard Dogs Anarch Revolt x 2 Cat's Guidance x 2 Elder Intervention LIBRARY: You: (only one card left, you looked at the ash heap, so you know which one) ---- Lost in Crowds Opponent: --------- empty ASH HEAP: 60 library cards each, nothing else

Dude, You are dead. The anarch and the antedilluvian awakening kill you during your untap phase even if you take the pool from the edge. You will never get the chance to play your Minion tap. -- Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr. XZealot Archon of the Swamp

In article <v5cok7g...@corp.supernews.com> you write: >Dude, >You are dead. The anarch and the antedilluvian awakening kill you during >your untap phase even if you take the pool from the edge. You will never >get the chance to play your Minion tap. At least with the old wording on Antediluvian, he could throw it the Aabbt at any time to shut him up, which would leave him at one pool. With the new timing window on Antediluvian, though, yeah, he's toast. gomi -- Peace is generally good in itself, but it is never the highest good unless it comes as the handmaid of righteousness; and it becomes a very evil thing if it serves merely as a mask for cowardice and sloth, or as an instrument to further the ends of despotism or anarchy. --Theodore Roosevelt

Gomi no Sensei wrote: > In article <v5cok7g...@corp.supernews.com> you write: > >>Dude, >>You are dead. The anarch and the antedilluvian awakening kill you during >>your untap phase even if you take the pool from the edge. You will never >>get the chance to play your Minion tap. > > > At least with the old wording on Antediluvian, he could throw it the > Aabbt at any time to shut him up, which would leave him at one pool. > With the new timing window on Antediluvian, though, yeah, he's toast. You can burn AA before burning a pool to the AA. Both events occur during untap. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Gomi no Sensei <go...@panix.com> wrote: > In article <v5cok7g...@corp.supernews.com> you write: >>Dude, >>You are dead. The anarch and the antedilluvian awakening kill you during >>your untap phase even if you take the pool from the edge. You will never >>get the chance to play your Minion tap. > At least with the old wording on Antediluvian, he could throw it the > Aabbt at any time to shut him up, which would leave him at one pool. > With the new timing window on Antediluvian, though, yeah, he's toast. What changed on Antediluvian awakening? Here's the latest text: Put this card in play. Each Methuselah burns 1 pool during each of his or her untap phases. Any Methuselah can burn this card during his or her untap phase by voluntarily burning one vampire with a capacity above 3 that he or she controls. As far as I can tell, you still have the opportunity to burn a vamp before you take the damage. Assuming that, though, I've gone through several permutations of actions, and assuming a relatively smart opponent, I can't figure out what to do... I'm still working on it, myself. :)

[ quoted text not captured ] Here's my answer presented in JOL format: Starting Pool: 1 UNTAP: 1) All. 2) Gain 1 for the edge (pool: 2). 3) Burn Cassandra to burn the Antideluvian Awakening. 4) Burn 1 pool for the Anarch Revolt (pool: 1). 5) Society of Leopold burns Ozmo. MASTER: 1) The Coven. Gain Master Phase Action. 2) Tap The Coven to give Raful 2 blood. (Opponent gains control of The Coven). 3) Millicent Smith. MINION: 1) Raful bleeds for 4. Lambach untaps with Guard Dogs to block. Millicent burns Raful. Combat does not occur. Lambach untaps with Cats' Guidance. 2) Julius bleeds for 4. Lambach attempts to block. Julius plays inferior Form of the Serpent for stealth (Julius 1/2). Lambach blocks anyway (Raven Spy). Both combatants strike hands. Lambach 6/10. Julius burns. Lambach untaps with Cats' Guidance. 3) Aabbt Kindred calls for Mark of the Damned. Lambach attempts to block. Aabbt Kindred will Dare the Dawn. Aabbt Kindred plays Awe to gain 2 votes. Throw edge in favor. Lambach votes 3 against. Passes 4-3. I burn 0 pool (0 vampires in opponent's ash heap). Opponent burns 4 pool (Cassandra, Ozmo, Raful and Julius in my ash heap). I don't think the Aabbt Kindred counts for this one since he doesn't burn yet. Correct? Anyway, we're down to 1 pool apiece. Aabbt Kindred burns. INFLUENCE: 1) No. DISCARD: 1) No. Ending Pool: 1 Then my Opponent is ousted by his own Anarch Revolt. That was fun. Let's have another! -Matt --

OK, here's my solution (kinda messy). Any problems with it? I admit, saying that the Opponent takes no actions is kind of cheesy, but the assumption is that he knows he has no untap, and he knows you know he has no untap, and a bleed for 1 would kill him from the anarch revolts. And I also assume that he'll support the blood hunts, even though he should be suspicious. Ceteris parabis, he's not going to be expecting any vote-calling :) So here goes: My turn: Untap all my vampires Gain 1 pool from the edge (Pool: 2) Ozmo burns 1 blood from Society of Leopold. Burn Raful to burn Awakening. Burn 1 pool from Anarch Revolt. (Pool: 1) Play the Coven. Replace with Lost in Crowds. Tap the Coven to give 2 blood to Aabbt. Give the Coven to opponent. Minion Tap Aabbt for 3. (Pool: 4) Aabbt must hunt. No block. Ozmo attempts to bleed for 2. Lambach plays Guard Dogs, blocks. Lambach punches for 2 agg. Ozmo punches for 1 normal. Ozmo goes to Torpor. Lambach plays Cat's Guidance to untap Julius attempts to bleed. Lambach blocks. Julius maneuvers to long with Form of the Serpent. wave. I declare the end of my turn. (Pool: 4) Opponent's turn: Untap all his vampires. Burn 1 pool from Anarch Revolt (Pool: 4) Tap the Coven to give 2 blood to Horatio. Give Coven to me. Play Anarch Revolt. Tap Parthenon. Play Anarch Revolt. Take no actions. End of turn (Pool: 4) My turn: Untap all my vampires. Gain 1 pool from edge (Pool: 5) Burn 3 pool from 3 Anarch Revolts (Pool: 2) Tap the Coven to give 2 blood to Aabbt. Give coven to opponent. Give obf to Aabbt. (doesn't matter) Cassandra attempts to bleed for 1. Lambach attempts to block. Lambach punches for 2 agg. Cassandra punches for 1. Cassandra goes to torpor. Julius diablerizes Cassandra. No block. Blood Hunt, Julius burns. Aabbt calls Ancilla Empowerment. Lambach attempts to block. Aabbt plays Daring the Dawn. Aabbt plays awe and burns 3 blood for 3 votes. Vote passes. I burn 1 pool, opponent burns 2 pool. Aabbt Kindred burns, leaving me with no minions. I declare end of my turn (Pool: 1) Opponent dies during untap phase.

Oops. I forgot about Ozmo. So in my attempt I actually kill myself. Oops. Unless of course I could convince Horatio to diablerize... Heh.

> On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Sven Helmer wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> when I still played "that other game", I used to enjoy those puzzles >> by Mark Rosewater a lot. I came up with a puzzle for Vampire and >> the people in the forum at vekn.de seemed to like it. I did a quick >> translation into English, so that other people also have a >> chance to take a shot at it. >> > etc.. > Here's my answer presented in JOL format: > > Starting Pool: 1 > > UNTAP: > 1) All. > 2) Gain 1 for the edge (pool: 2). > 3) Burn Cassandra to burn the Antideluvian Awakening. > 4) Burn 1 pool for the Anarch Revolt (pool: 1). > 5) Society of Leopold burns Ozmo. Ozmo isn't burn... > MASTER: > 1) The Coven. Gain Master Phase Action. > 2) Tap The Coven to give Raful 2 blood. > (Opponent gains control of The Coven). > 3) Millicent Smith. > MINION: > 1) Raful bleeds for 4. > Lambach untaps with Guard Dogs to block. > Millicent burns Raful. Combat does not occur. > Lambach untaps with Cats' Guidance. > 2) Julius bleeds for 4. > Lambach attempts to block. > Julius plays inferior Form of the Serpent for stealth > (Julius 1/2). > Lambach blocks anyway (Raven Spy). > Both combatants strike hands. Lambach 6/10. Julius burns. > Lambach untaps with Cats' Guidance. > 3) Aabbt Kindred calls for Mark of the Damned. > Lambach attempts to block. > Aabbt Kindred will Dare the Dawn. > Aabbt Kindred plays Awe to gain 2 votes. Throw edge in favor. > Lambach votes 3 against. > Passes 4-3. > I burn 0 pool (0 vampires in opponent's ash heap). Assuming he doesn't have any vampires that was burnt, which I doubt... > Opponent burns 4 pool (Cassandra, Ozmo, Raful and > Julius in my ash > heap). I don't think the Aabbt Kindred counts for this > one since he > doesn't burn yet. Correct? > Anyway, we're down to 1 pool apiece. Aabbt Kindred burns. > INFLUENCE: > 1) No. > DISCARD: > 1) No. > > Ending Pool: 1 > > Then my Opponent is ousted by his own Anarch Revolt. > > That was fun. Let's have another! > > -Matt -- Direct access to this group with http://web2news.com http://web2news.com/?rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Kulaid wrote: > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Sven Helmer wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> when I still played "that other game", I used to enjoy those puzzles > >> by Mark Rosewater a lot. I came up with a puzzle for Vampire and > >> the people in the forum at vekn.de seemed to like it. I did a quick > >> translation into English, so that other people also have a > >> chance to take a shot at it. > >> > > etc.. > > Here's my answer presented in JOL format: > > > > Starting Pool: 1 > > > > UNTAP: > > 1) All. > > 2) Gain 1 for the edge (pool: 2). > > 3) Burn Cassandra to burn the Antideluvian Awakening. > > 4) Burn 1 pool for the Anarch Revolt (pool: 1). > > 5) Society of Leopold burns Ozmo. > > Ozmo isn't burn... Sure he does. I can choose to have Ozmo burn a blood or choose for him to burn. Society of Leopold gives me that choice. [ quoted text not captured ] The setup listed 60 library cards and nothing else (i.e. no crypt cards) in my opponent's ashheap. [ quoted text not captured ]

Your turn... You: (Edge, 1 Pool) Untap... 1. Gain from Edge 2. Burn Cassandra 3. Burn for Anarch Revolt... (1 pool still) 4. Ozmo burns 1 blood... Master Phase... 1. Coven, gain master phase 2. Tap Coven to give Julius 2 more blood... (4 blood now) 3. Minion tap Julius for 4... (Pool = 5) Minion Phase... 1. Julius must hunt 2. Raful must hunt 3. Bleed with Ozmo... Prey responds, Guard dogs and untaps... Ozmo is royals smacked down... Lambach cat's guidance. End turn... Pool = 5 His turn...(pool 4) Untap... 1. Burn for Anarch Revolt (pool 4) 2. tap Coven to give Horatio 2 blood Master 1. None or 2 Anarch revolts... (either won't bother you much...) Minion 1. If Horatio bleed aabbt blocks... if lambach bleeds, he' killing himself... End of his turn... Regardless of him playing Anarch revolts or not, at this point he lost... Your turn, (pool 5) Untap... 1. Gain from edge 2. Burn of Anarch revolts... Pool is at 5 or 3, don't matter... Master 1. Millicent Smith 2. Tap Coven to give Aabbt 2 blood (at 3 now) Minion 1a. If there's 3 anarch revolt in play, bleed with Raful... Then Julius... Then Vote Ancilla Empowerment... Daring the dawn then aweing all the blood to make it pass... 1b. If only 1 anarch revolt in play, take no action... Let him vote one off... End of your turn... His turn... (3 pool) At this point he's up a creek, so he'll vote his anarch off with horatio... But can never gain pool or tap lambach... and you'll just gain enough pool to take a Mark of the damned vote and survive it... (At this point you have at least 3 vampires in your ash heap, which can oust him... Just need enough pool to survive it on his end.) [ quoted text not captured ]

> On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Kulaid wrote: > >>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Sven Helmer wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> when I still played "that other game", I used to enjoy >>>> those puzzles >>>> by Mark Rosewater a lot. I came up with a puzzle for Vampire and >>>> the people in the forum at vekn.de seemed to like it. I >>>> did a quick >>>> translation into English, so that other people also have a >>>> chance to take a shot at it. >>>> >>> etc.. >>> Here's my answer presented in JOL format: >>> >>> Starting Pool: 1 >>> >>> UNTAP: >>> 1) All. >>> 2) Gain 1 for the edge (pool: 2). >>> 3) Burn Cassandra to burn the Antideluvian Awakening. >>> 4) Burn 1 pool for the Anarch Revolt (pool: 1). >>> 5) Society of Leopold burns Ozmo. >> >> Ozmo isn't burn... > > Sure he does. I can choose to have Ozmo burn a blood or > choose for him to > burn. Society of Leopold gives me that choice. That's true... > >>> MASTER: >>> 1) The Coven. Gain Master Phase Action. >>> 2) Tap The Coven to give Raful 2 blood. >>> (Opponent gains control of The Coven). >>> 3) Millicent Smith. >>> MINION: >>> 1) Raful bleeds for 4. >>> Lambach untaps with Guard Dogs to block. > etc.. >> >> Assuming he doesn't have any vampires that was burnt, >> which I doubt... > > The setup listed 60 library cards and nothing else (i.e. > no crypt cards) > in my opponent's ashheap. In my solution I account for the cyrpt ash heap... hmmm... > >>> Opponent burns 4 pool (Cassandra, Ozmo, Raful and >>> Julius in my ash >>> heap). I don't think the Aabbt Kindred counts for this >>> one since he >>> doesn't burn yet. Correct? >>> Anyway, we're down to 1 pool apiece. Aabbt Kindred burns. >>> INFLUENCE: >>> 1) No. > etc.. >> > -- [ quoted text not captured ]

Kulaid <kulaid.ne...@web2news.net> wrote: > Your turn... > You: (Edge, 1 Pool) > Untap... > 1. Gain from Edge > 2. Burn Cassandra > 3. Burn for Anarch Revolt... (1 pool still) > 4. Ozmo burns 1 blood... > Master Phase... > 1. Coven, gain master phase > 2. Tap Coven to give Julius 2 more blood... (4 blood now) Julius has a 2 capacity. The extra 2 will just bleed off.

[ quoted text not captured ] I meant to say you can get 3 vampires (only 2 atm) in your ash heap, not that you already had that many... [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Damn, your right... still just need to gain 2 pool, so coven to Aabbt and minion tap it all off for 3... just will draw out the 2 Anarch revolts... Julius will block horatio if he bleeds... But same outcome, just need 2 pool to get it to work... [ quoted text not captured ]

woot! i actually found a solution that hasn't been posted yet =) (unless someone already did, but i haven't seen it yet due to google being slow to deliver messages...) ok, here goes... (i hope i didn't mess anything up :P) the only downer is that your opponent actually has to take your bait (see section 3 to know what i mean) untap: 1pool gain pool from edge (2pools) burn cassandra to antediluvian awakening (handsize goes down to 8, discard minion tap) burn 1 pool from anarch revolt (1pool) ozmo burn 1 blood from society of leopold (1blood left) master: play the coven (gain mpa) (draw lost in crowds from library) play obfuscate on ozmo tap the coven to give 2 blood to raful minion: 1. bleed with julius, opponent plays guard dogs, julius plays from of the serpent, julius is burned in the ensuing combat (takes 2dmg, only has 1 blood left). opponent plays cat's guidance to untap. 2. bleed with raful, use her ability, opponent can block anyway. raful enters combat and goes to torpor (takes 2dmg, only has 1 blood left). opponent plays cat's guidance to untap. 3. ozmo tries to diablerize raful. if opponent tries to block, ozmo uses superior lost in crowds. bloodhunt ensues, you burn your ancilla empowerment to get 1 vote against, and lure your opponent into thinking you want ozmo to live, so opponent votes 3 for and you burn. (that's the tricky part) 4. aabt kindred calls mark of the damned (if opp. tries to block, aabt kindred uses inferior DtD), plays awe at inferior burning a blood to gain 2 votes, you burn the edge to gain another vote -> 4for, 3against, you have 4 minions in your ash heap (raful, ozmo, cassandra, julius), so opponent burns 4pools. (now at 1pool) opponent's turn, opp. dies from his own anarch revolt. matthew's answer was obviously the best one, but he got it in before i did ;P i still think that's not too bad as an alternative... :) MiF

MiF wrote: > minion: > 1. bleed with julius, opponent plays guard dogs, julius plays from of > the serpent, julius is burned in the ensuing combat (takes 2dmg, only > has 1 blood left). opponent plays cat's guidance to untap. That assumes Lambach makes his hand damage aggravated, which he wouldn't if that would lead to his losing. But even if he did, it wouldn't burn Julius. 1 agg to send him to torpor. The second agg would burn him, except that he burns a blood to prevent destruction. He goes to torpor empty. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: > MiF wrote: > >> minion: >> 1. bleed with julius, opponent plays guard dogs, julius plays from of >> the serpent, julius is burned in the ensuing combat (takes 2dmg, only >> has 1 blood left). opponent plays cat's guidance to untap. > > > That assumes Lambach makes his hand damage aggravated, which he wouldn't > if that would lead to his losing. > > But even if he did, it wouldn't burn Julius. > 1 agg to send him to torpor. The second agg would burn him, except that > he burns a blood to prevent destruction. > He goes to torpor empty. .. and then burns from his card text (doh!) Blame the early hour, I guess. The original solution used this same mechanism (which I noticed at the time), but for some reason forgot it when reading this solution. Nevermind... [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3E578323...@white-wolf.com>... > LSJ wrote: > > MiF wrote: > > > >> minion: > >> 1. bleed with julius, opponent plays guard dogs, julius plays from of > >> the serpent, julius is burned in the ensuing combat (takes 2dmg, only > >> has 1 blood left). opponent plays cat's guidance to untap. > > > > > > That assumes Lambach makes his hand damage aggravated, which he wouldn't > > if that would lead to his losing. > > > > But even if he did, it wouldn't burn Julius. > > 1 agg to send him to torpor. The second agg would burn him, except that > > he burns a blood to prevent destruction. > > He goes to torpor empty. > > .. and then burns from his card text (doh!) > Blame the early hour, I guess. > The original solution used this same mechanism (which I noticed > at the time), but for some reason forgot it when reading this solution. > > Nevermind... Doesn't matter, lambach maneuvers away on guard dogs $$ :P anyway, switch the bleeds of raful and julius to prevent this problem :) -D

humm i mumbled something about switching bleeds, never mind that, he can maneuver away on the first bleed as well.. think about it :) -D

In article <93148a54.03022...@posting.google.com>, jja....@hccnet.nl says... [ quoted text not captured ] Lambach's controller won't specifically know that he shouldn't put Raful/Julius in torpor, so it's very possible that he'd slap them around. -- -Snapcase

[ quoted text not captured ] any player using Lambach as its main defense will try to slap everyone in torpor anyway =) it's a no brainer !

[ quoted text not captured ] this pretty much looks like my own solution. Congrats for solving it quickly (does this mean, that it was a little bit too easy? ;-) > That was fun. Let's have another! Well, I already have a vague idea for another one, but I still have to work out some of the details (and I don't have much free time on my hands at the moment). Regards, Sven