Angel of Berlin Timing

Original Question and Response: http://anarchfreepress.myzen.co.uk/vtesuk/viewtopic.php?f=5&... (http://anarchfreepress.myzen.co.uk/vtesuk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=964) More complete exploration of the timing of Angel of Berlin: Can you use Angel of Berlin during an action? :thumbsup: When there is no action? :thumbsup: Between the block decision and combat? :thumbsup: [at the same time that Obedience would normally be played] In the middle of combat (like Concealed/Disguised Weapon)? :thumbsdown: [card text] References: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad... (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/30ff16df65ed8883) and http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad... (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/b21e71c2aa1e82c4)

All your thumbs are correct.

And just for completeness's sake: Since Angel untaps a minion, it doesn't count as a "wake" effect. Therefore, it can't be used in conjunction with Determine to cancel a card as it is played.

> Since Angel untaps a minion, it doesn't count as a "wake" effect. Therefore, it can't be used in conjunction with Determine to cancel a card as it is played. How would you phrase that so that it fits the FAQ? http://vtes-hunter-net.tripod.com/FAQ.htm Compare to: --- Q) Can a tapped Imbued use Vigilance (reaction) to untap and play Determine as is his predator plays Bum's Rush? A) No. Vigilance's effect is not an "as some card is played" effect. [LSJ 04/30/2009] --- and --- Q) Can you use Angel of Berlin during an action? When there is no action? Between the block decision and combat? In the middle of combat (like Concealed/Disguised Weapon)? A) Angel of Berlin can be used during an action, yes. It can also be played at any time when no action is taking place, like during your prey's/predator's influence phase. Angel of Berlin can be played between the block decision and combat, in the same time that Obedience would be played by a defending vampire. [LSJ Apr 10, 2006] Angel of Berlin cannot be played during combat because of its card text. ---

> TheLasombra wrote: > > > Since Angel untaps a minion, it doesn't count as a "wake" effect. Therefore, it can't be used in conjunction with Determine to cancel a card as it is played. > How would you phrase that so that it fits the FAQ? > > http://vtes-hunter-net.tripod.com/FAQ.htm > > Compare to: > > --- > Q) Can a tapped Imbued use Vigilance (reaction) to untap and play Determine as is his predator plays Bum's Rush? > > A) No. Vigilance's effect is not an "as some card is played" effect. [LSJ 04/30/2009] It fits exactly in there -- it parallels the ruling on Vigilance. > Q) Can you use Angel of Berlin during an action? When there is no action? Between the block decision and combat? In the middle of combat (like Concealed/Disguised Weapon)? > > A) Angel of Berlin can be used during an action, yes. It can also be played at any time when no action is taking place, like during your prey's/predator's influence phase. Angel of Berlin can be played between the block decision and combat, in the same time that Obedience would be played by a defending vampire. [LSJ Apr 10, 2006] Angel of Berlin cannot be played during combat because of its card text. > --- Or append there: Angel of Berlin cannot be played during combat because of its card text and cannot be used in the "as a card is played" window since it lacks such text (and it not a "wake" effect). Coupled with whatever the FAQ says on wake effects (and why, for parallel example, Guard Dogs is not a wake effect).