ratios and everything

Suppose i was to build a deck that really only starts working when you found that one card. (i am thinking of Alexandra-alastor-eye-illusions-multirush) How many Alastors would you play? How many eyes? How many and what kind of cycle? W

"Wouter Kuyper" <Wouter...@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht news:44a2da05.0407...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] I'd play some 8-9 Alastor and 2 Eyes. You can search your Eye with Alastor and one is all you ever need. The second is in case you draw it in your opening hand. Aside from the obvious Dreams, I'd play Aura Reading as cycle, since it's inferior is also useful if you don't need to cycle.

Wouter...@yahoo.com (Wouter Kuyper) wrote in message news:<44a2da05.0407...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] 1/10 of your 90-card deck should be Alastor. You'll have a roughly 54% chance of having an Alastor in your opening hand. By the time you get through 15 cards, you're 82% likely to have hit Alastor. When you get to 20 cards, that probabilility increases to 90%. 3 copies of Eye of Hazimel are needed. You're 22% likely to get one in your opening hand, but that isn't a help. You're only 6% likely to have found two Eyes by the time you get through 20 cards (90% probable to have found at least 1 Alastor). I would stick mostly with combat-oriented card cycling in this deck. Two cards come to mind - Aura Reading and Infernal Pursuit. I would include both, as the inferior functions of each will also be useful. I think the [cel] Infernal Pursuit will be more useful than the [aus] Aura Reading, so I would include a grater proportion of IP. Also, its CEL effects stack, so you can be pretty sure to get to an Alastor in a hurry if that is really your goal. What I'm not sure I understand is how Alexandra will multi-rush. She can't untap herself. Perhaps your intent is to use some other vampire as the rusher and they will benefit from Alexandra's untap ability - but this is awfully slow to get started and risks not being able to push the vote through without PRE modifiers (which you will not want to carry in a multi-rush combat deck.) But, assuming you're committed to this, a solid multi-rusher would be Joaquin Murietta (AUS CEL obf pre qui, 1 additional strike in the 1st round, +1 gun damage at long). You really should include 1-2 Assault Rifles and Disguised Weapons if you go this way. Heck, Joaquin might even choose to Alastor for the Rifle, then equip the Eye the old fashioned way after you get going. Good luck. Darby

"Darby Keeney" <dke...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:40acdae.04073...@posting.google.com... > Wouter...@yahoo.com (Wouter Kuyper) wrote in message news:<44a2da05.0407...@posting.google.com>... > > (i am thinking of Alexandra-alastor-eye-illusions-multirush) > What I'm not sure I understand is how Alexandra will multi-rush. She > can't untap herself. I believe the idea is that the Illusionary one untaps the acting one. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

> Wouter...@yahoo.com (Wouter Kuyper) wrote in message news:<44a2da05.0407...@posting.google.com>... > > Suppose i was to build a deck that really only starts working when you > > found that one card. > > > > (i am thinking of Alexandra-alastor-eye-illusions-multirush) > > > > How many Alastors would you play? How many eyes? How many and what > > kind of cycle? > > 1/10 of your 90-card deck should be Alastor. You'll have a roughly > 54% chance of having an Alastor in your opening hand. By the time you > get through 15 cards, you're 82% likely to have hit Alastor. When you > get to 20 cards, that probabilility increases to 90%. > > 3 copies of Eye of Hazimel are needed. You're 22% likely to get one > in your opening hand, but that isn't a help. You're only 6% likely > to have found two Eyes by the time you get through 20 cards (90% > probable to have found at least 1 Alastor). > Eye of Hazimel is to be equipped via Alastor. > What I'm not sure I understand is how Alexandra will multi-rush. She > can't untap herself. She can if there are two of her in play. You missed the "illusions" in the deck type. Rush someone, play Illusions, bring out Alexandra, untap your normal Alexandra, fight. Repeat.

> What I'm not sure I understand is how Alexandra will multi-rush. She > can't untap herself. Perhaps your intent is to use some other vampire > as the rusher and they will benefit from Alexandra's untap ability - > but this is awfully slow to get started and risks not being able to > push the vote through without PRE modifiers (which you will not want > to carry in a multi-rush combat deck.) Simple, while Alexandra can't untap herself, her Illusion can. He'll make up a crypt of 12x (or more) Alexandra's, ensuring that when he plays Illusions of the Kindred he gets another Alexandra. That Alexandra will then use her special ability to untap the original one (as far as I know she can do that during combat as well, unless there's some errata/clarification on that). Of course the illusion won't have the Eye, so I'm not sure how you intend to do a lot of damage with her discipline spread. Carrion crows and a lot of presses? It also has a huge problem with SCE as you can't play Psyche! with the illusion.

Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote: > She can if there are two of her in play. You missed the "illusions" in the > deck type. Rush someone, play Illusions, bring out Alexandra, untap your > normal Alexandra, fight. Repeat. While certainly clever, don't you then have to fight with the Illusionary Alexandra, who lacks the Eye and, well, any reasonable way to hurt someone other than, like, Blurred hand strikes for 1? Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6 "Mr. President, ask not what your rest home can do for you. Ask what you can do for your rest home." -Elvis

Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com wrote: >Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote: > >> She can if there are two of her in play. You missed the "illusions" in the >> deck type. Rush someone, play Illusions, bring out Alexandra, untap your >> normal Alexandra, fight. Repeat. > >While certainly clever, don't you then have to fight with the Illusionary >Alexandra, who lacks the Eye and, well, any reasonable way to hurt someone >other than, like, Blurred hand strikes for 1? Take your pick: Lightning Reflexes. Carrion Crows. Song in the Dark. Molotov Cocktail. Amaranth, of course. Telepathic Tracking.

Izaak wrote: > Carrion crows and a lot of presses? It also has a huge problem with SCE > as you can't play Psyche! with the illusion. But the illusion can play Telepathic Tracking. I imagine the simplest thing to do would be to play Carrion Crows + as many Flash as required. --Colin McGuigan

Jason Babbitt wrote: > Take your pick: > Lightning Reflexes. > Carrion Crows. > Song in the Dark. > Molotov Cocktail. > Amaranth, of course. > Telepathic Tracking. Yeah. Kinda sketchy. I mean, I think the idea is really clever and all, but it seems like a lot of work to end up trying to kill someone when you have, like, Animalism and Celerity. I mean, yeah, ok, the Lightning Reflexes might work well. But still kinda sketchy. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Izaak" <i.hav...@SPAMklg.nl> wrote in message news:<cee3eo$5so$1...@reader13.wxs.nl>... [ quoted text not captured ] S:CE can be Telepathic Tracked. As to 'how do you do a lot of damage', how about a gazillion (okay, 8 or 9) punches for one via Lightning Reflexes? :) -John Flournoy

Wouter...@yahoo.com (Wouter Kuyper) wrote in message news:<44a2da05.0407...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] For combat, I would use a lot of infernal pursuit, quite a few telepathic trackings, a few song in the dark, a few carrion crows. The infernal pursuit is quite useful to cycle cards you don't need at that moment. (either to draw into alastors or to discard them when you dont need em) It would also be your source of presses. Eyes i would go for 2, alastor around 8 or so. Not a deck to actually win with though, imo. :) -Bram Vink

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<2mvhhkF...@uni-berlin.de>... > I believe the idea is that the Illusionary one untaps the acting one. Duh. Right. I completely missed that "Illusions" part. Selective reading, I guess - the Eye typically drives POT fighting with CHI for Apparation only. Got stuck thinking that was the "only way" to go. An interesting concept. Crows, CEL presses, TeleTrack, Amaranth Tough to work out, but intriguing. G'luck

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<2mvhhkF...@uni-berlin.de>... > I believe the idea is that the Illusionary one untaps the acting one. Duh. Right. [ quoted text not captured ]

Gregory Stuart Pettigrew <ethe...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote in message news:<2004073014...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net>... > > 3 copies of Eye of Hazimel are needed. You're 22% likely to get one > > in your opening hand, but that isn't a help. You're only 6% likely > > to have found two Eyes by the time you get through 20 cards (90% > > probable to have found at least 1 Alastor). > > > > Eye of Hazimel is to be equipped via Alastor. > > I understand he wants to Alastor for the Eye. The point (unclearly stated) is that he needs 3 Eyes in the deck. With only 2 copies, by the time he is 90% likely to have found an Alastor, he is also 6% likely to have (undesirably) drawn both Eyes.

Peter D Bakija <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote in message news:<BD30143F.188CB%pd...@lightlink.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] i have a deck like this using song in the dark (usually a crap card but when you dont have to "pay" its ok) amaranth and telepthic tracking. A few flashes and pursuits (for add strike so yuo dnot have to waste your song in the dark). ive played it twice and i think it took vps both times, allthough i also decked myself each time (have to do something about that). Oh yeah and alexandra bleeds with aire of elation. i dont use the eye, but skill cards and rush actions. that way if you give her the soul gem, you can bleed for 6 with aire and not have to worry about archon.

> Duh. Right. > I completely missed that "Illusions" part. Selective reading, I > guess - the Eye typically drives POT fighting with CHI for Apparation > only. Got stuck thinking that was the "only way" to go. > > An interesting concept. Crows, CEL presses, TeleTrack, Amaranth > I had the silly idea of using the Eye and Illusions to finally take advantage of Nakova's special.

"Gregory Stuart Pettigrew" <ethe...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote in message news:2004080110...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net... [ quoted text not captured ] How? /henrik isaksson

> Yeah. Kinda sketchy. I mean, I think the idea is really clever and all, but > it seems like a lot of work to end up trying to kill someone when you have, > like, Animalism and Celerity. > > I mean, yeah, ok, the Lightning Reflexes might work well. But still kinda > sketchy. Not at all. just 3 cards combat: Song in the Dark, amaranth and telepathic tracking/psyche!, with a bunch of ritual of the bitter rose to refill your "real" alexandra and some extra combat support (drawing, infernal pursuit, etc) might be enough. [ quoted text not captured ]

Ok, here is my version. Shoot until it sinks. improvements (or testresults) appreciated. W Deck Name: alexandramultirush II Created By: wk Description: alastor Crypt: (20 cards, Min: 44, Max: 44, Avg: 11,00) ----------------------------------------------- 20 Alexandra ANI AUS CEL dom PRE 11, Toreador:2, Inner Circle Library: (90 cards) ------------------- Master (8 cards) 1 Aching Beauty 1 Art Museum 1 Barrens, The 4 Dreams of the Sphinx 1 Specialization Action (8 cards) 1 Aranthebes, The Immortal 5 Flurry of Action 1 Imperial Decree 1 Nose of the Hound Action Modifier (2 cards) 2 Aire of Elation Political Action (9 cards) 8 Alastor 1 Protect Thine Own Reaction (5 cards) 2 Telepathic Counter 3 Telepathic Misdirection Combat (50 cards) 9 Amaranth 15 Illusions of the Kindred 10 Lightning Reflexes 6 Song in the Dark 10 Telepathic Tracking Retainer (2 cards) 2 Owl Companion Equipment (2 cards) 2 Eye of Hazimel Combo (4 cards) 4 Ritual of the Bitter Rose This deck was last saved at 13:27:24 on 2-8-2004

"Wouter Kuyper" <Wouter...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:44a2da05.04080...@posting.google.com... > Ok, here is my version. Shoot until it sinks. improvements (or > testresults) appreciated. > > W > > Deck Name: alexandramultirush II > Created By: wk > Description: alastor > > Crypt: (20 cards, Min: 44, Max: 44, Avg: 11,00) > ----------------------------------------------- > 20 Alexandra ANI AUS CEL dom PRE 11, Toreador:2, Inner Circle > > Library: (90 cards) > ------------------- > Master (8 cards) > 1 Aching Beauty > 1 Art Museum > 1 Barrens, The > 4 Dreams of the Sphinx > 1 Specialization Loner archetype is quite nice in this deck =) Also, if you burn alexandra in the bloodhunt, you can Redeem her lost soul for 5 pool. > Action (8 cards) > 1 Aranthebes, The Immortal > 5 Flurry of Action > 1 Imperial Decree > 1 Nose of the Hound > > Action Modifier (2 cards) > 2 Aire of Elation Stealth? 2 alactrity and 2 siren's lure would at least leave you with a slim slim chance of getting that alastor vote through. > Political Action (9 cards) > 8 Alastor > 1 Protect Thine Own Maybe one or two more protect? Abusive cards should be abused! > Reaction (5 cards) > 2 Telepathic Counter > 3 Telepathic Misdirection I'd replace all for Read the winds, and maybe one or two quicken sight. > Combat (50 cards) > 9 Amaranth > 15 Illusions of the Kindred > 10 Lightning Reflexes > 6 Song in the Dark > 10 Telepathic Tracking > > Retainer (2 cards) > 2 Owl Companion > > Equipment (2 cards) > 2 Eye of Hazimel > > Combo (4 cards) > 4 Ritual of the Bitter Rose > Looks "solid"! /henrik isaksson

Wouter...@yahoo.com (Wouter Kuyper) wrote in message news:<44a2da05.04080...@posting.google.com>... > Equipment (2 cards) > 2 Eye of Hazimel You might consider a contingency Sire's Index Finger. Not sure if it's worth a slot, but getting shafted by a Drawing/Terror and a Canine may be worth the risk of a wasted slot. Bye, Daneel

"Daneel" <dan...@eposta.hu> escribió en el mensaje news:a23a105e.04080...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Most of the times, Alexandra would be the acting minion, so she will be able to play illusions *before* the opponent gets the opportunity to play drawing/terror. But I guess it won't hurt at all that card slot, just in case. Even a copy of trainer might be ok.

On 2 Aug 2004 04:31:48 -0700, Wouter...@yahoo.com (Wouter Kuyper) wrote: >Ok, here is my version. Shoot until it sinks. improvements (or >testresults) appreciated. >W >Deck Name: alexandramultirush II >Created By: wk >Description: alastor >Crypt: (20 cards, Min: 44, Max: 44, Avg: 11,00) >----------------------------------------------- >20 Alexandra ANI AUS CEL dom PRE 11, Toreador:2, Inner Circle You might consider some Might of the Camarilla and Redeem the Lost Soul.

"henrik isaksson" <PLEASEDONTSP...@spray.se> wrote in message news:<2n7604F...@uni-berlin.de>... > "Wouter Kuyper" <Wouter...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:44a2da05.04080...@posting.google.com... > > Ok, here is my version. Shoot until it sinks. improvements (or > > testresults) appreciated. > > > > W > > > > Deck Name: alexandramultirush II > > Created By: wk > > Description: alastor > > > > Crypt: (20 cards, Min: 44, Max: 44, Avg: 11,00) > > ----------------------------------------------- > > 20 Alexandra ANI AUS CEL dom PRE 11, Toreador:2, Inner Circle > > > > Library: (90 cards) > > ------------------- > > Master (8 cards) > > 1 Aching Beauty > > 1 Art Museum > > 1 Barrens, The > > 4 Dreams of the Sphinx > > 1 Specialization > Loner archetype is quite nice in this deck =) not bad, but what to throw out? flurries? > Also, if you burn alexandra in the bloodhunt, you can Redeem her lost soul > for 5 pool. isn't it removed from game even when burned first? > > > Action (8 cards) > > 1 Aranthebes, The Immortal > > 5 Flurry of Action > > 1 Imperial Decree > > 1 Nose of the Hound > > > > Action Modifier (2 cards) > > 2 Aire of Elation > Stealth? 2 alactrity and 2 siren's lure would at least leave you with a slim > slim chance of getting that alastor vote through. true, good plan...throw out flurries? or something else? > > > Political Action (9 cards) > > 8 Alastor > > 1 Protect Thine Own > Maybe one or two more protect? Abusive cards should be abused! without stealth, or more votes i don't think this will do more damage and with the restriction of only nonCams i think 1 prayercard is enough. > > > Reaction (5 cards) > > 2 Telepathic Counter > > 3 Telepathic Misdirection > I'd replace all for Read the winds, and maybe one or two quicken sight. i am probably not tapped at the end of my turn, so i don't think if i would do that. > > > Combat (50 cards) > > 9 Amaranth > > 15 Illusions of the Kindred > > 10 Lightning Reflexes > > 6 Song in the Dark > > 10 Telepathic Tracking > > > > Retainer (2 cards) > > 2 Owl Companion > > > > Equipment (2 cards) > > 2 Eye of Hazimel > > > > Combo (4 cards) > > 4 Ritual of the Bitter Rose > > > Looks "solid"! > > /henrik isaksson Main question is what to throw out. And most people offered combat-cycle as best options. if so, what to throw out? i am not sure about that...i don't want combat if i don't have an alastor. W

"Smiling Tom" <tma...@almadrava.net> wrote in message news:<2n8ur5F...@uni-berlin.de>... [ quoted text not captured ] I don't really like putting in such specific anticards, it costs me an action as well, and ends my turn (since i cannot untap) I think that would cost too much time...and when they start rushing ME instead of the pther way around something is wrong already :-) W

Wouter Kuyper wrote: > "henrik isaksson" <PLEASEDONTSP...@spray.se> wrote in message news:<2n7604F...@uni-berlin.de>... >>Also, if you burn alexandra in the bloodhunt, you can Redeem her lost soul >>for 5 pool. > > isn't it removed from game even when burned first? If the illusionary vampire is burned in combat (ending combat), the acting Methuselah chooses whether he is sent to the ash heap or removed from the game. [RTR 20001020] --Colin McGuigan

> As to 'how do you do a lot of damage', how about a gazillion (okay, 8 > or 9) punches for one via Lightning Reflexes? :) How about using the original Alex with the eye to knock them down to 0 or 1 blood IG, undead strength, app. taste, etc, press, illusions, new one untaps original and then finishes the job, sorted.

robert....@rdg.ac.uk (Rob Thompson) wrote in message news:<9966f149.04080...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Could work as well...but that is more dangerous for the old alex....only if i was to know that their combat doesn't hurt me in anyway. and it might cost more cards...will look into that, W