LSJ#
On VTES-L, R. David Zopf wrote:
> >> If i have the vamp Basilla, or any other vamp. with aggro hand
> >> damage, and i give him/her the eq. tigers claws (+2 hand damage)
> >> and as my strike i use the claws, will my strike be aggro?
> >> or will i do 2 normal and 1 aggro?
> >
> >No. Only her hand damage (damage from a hand strike) is aggravated.
> >Melee weapon damage is not.
> >
> >
> >Would this also be true if you strike with the Tiger Claws then make it
> >aggravated with Claws of the Dead or Wolf Claws or is it just because
> >Basilla's aggro damage is built in to her hand damage?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Mark
> >
> No aggravated damage will result through any use of the Protean agg.
> hand damage cards. I'm going to try my hand at explaining how it is that
> these things are worked through game mechanics. This comes up very often,
> and I'll admit, it's tricky, but see if this makes sense...
> All vampires have an innate hand strike for one normal damage. This
> damage can be modified in many ways, as you know. Protean can make their
> innate hand strike aggravated, Potence can increase the damage that is done.
> Scorpion Sting provides additional qualities to an innate hand strike. Some
> vampires have special abilities that change the innate hand strike.
It is easier if you look at the innate "hand damage" of a minion separately
from the "hand damage" done by a hand strike.
Innate damage can be modified by card text (Zack North) and other effects
(Torn Signpost, Fists of Death, etc.)
Hand strike damage can also be modified by card text (Basilia) and other
effects (Claws).
Several strikes are based on innate damage: notably the melee weapons'
strikes, but also strikes like Luck Blow, Burning Wrath, and Scorpion
Sting. Some of these produce enhanced hand strikes (which deal hand
damage) and some are strikes which are not hand strikes.
In general, the resulting strike is a hand strike if it is a non-ranged,
non-weapon strike that deals damage based on the striking minion's
innate hand damage. If it is not (it is ranged or it is a weapon strike),
then it's damage is not "hand damage" and the damage cannot be modified
by Claws or Basilia's special ability.
> The use of weaponry has a significantly different impact on what
> happens during combat. A weapon, such as Bastard Sword, states that it
> inflicts hand damage plus one. The problem with trying to combine this
> effect with an effect that applies aggravated damage as a quality of the
> strike is as follows; The strike with the Bastard Sword (and similarly
> worded weaponry) is a strike that is _based_ on the minion's hand damage,
> but is still inflicted with the Bastard Sword as a melee weapon strike, NOT
> with the minion's innate hand strike.
Correct.
> The aggravated "quality" that Wolf Claws provide to a vampire's
> innate hand strike cannot be applied to a strike with a weapon in any way,
> as they are two seperate categories of strikes.
Correct.
> Cards that DO carry through on the Bastard Sword strike are limited
> to the modifications to the minion's base hand damage (Fists of Death,
> Ritual Challenge, Depravity, etc.) and combat strike cards that specifically
> state that they may be used in conjunction with the weapon type that you are
> equipped with (in this case, a melee weapon. Several Potence cards provide
> for this).
Correct.
> In order for a piece of equipment (weapon or otherwise) to provide a
> strike that can be further modified with an aggravated "quality", it would
> have to be worded something like "Strike with hands at +2 damage...",
> expressing that the minion would actually be using his innate hand strike,
> and not the equipment itself.
The template doesn't exist, but if it did, I hope it would follow the
template used for Undead Strength: "Use your hand strike at +2 damage..."
to be perfectly clear.
> Now as a last exercise(for myself, as well) I'll go over what I
> consider to be one of the most complex examples of how this works (LSJ,
> correct me if I misinterpret...). Let's consider a Sabbat card, The Crimson
> Sentinel.
>
> The Crimson Sentinel
> Unique melee weapon
> Cost: 2 pool
> The minion with this equipment inflicts +1 hand damage with each
> strike. If this weapon successfully inflicts damage on an opponent in
> combat, add a soul counter to it at the end of that round. The minion with
> this equipment inflicts one additional point of hand damage with each strike
> for each soul counter on this card. Remove all soul counters from this card
> if another minion gains control of it.
>
> Don Cruez, The Idealist (10 cap. Brujah Justicar, PRE, POT, CEL,
> ani, dom, pro) is equipped with The Crimson Sentinel.
> Theoretical Combat
> Round 1 - Don Cruez chooses to strike with The Crimson Sentinel, a
> melee weapon strike, and takes the damage of one point inflicted by his
> opponent. Don Cruez inflicts 2 points of melee weapon damage using the
> Sentinel. At the end of this round, the Sentinel gets a soul counter. Don
> Cruez uses Dead End Alley to press
Correct.
> Round 2 - D.C. strikes again with The Crimson Sentinel, this time
> for three damage (Don's base hand damage was modified by the Sentinel to +1,
> then he chose his melee weapon strike). Fortunately, Don also has a Blur,
> which he plays. For his first strike, he chooses to strike with hands using
> Undead Strength (1 base hand damage, +1 for the Sentinel Soul Counter, +2
> for the Undead Strength). His innate hand strike connects for 4 damage.
> Luckily for Don, when he played the Undead Strength, he drew a Wolf Claws,
> which he then plays. For his last strike, he chooses Pushing the Limit (1
> base hand damage, +1 for the Sentinel Soul Counter, +3 for Pushing the
> Limit, modified to agg. with Wolf Claws). His last strike inflicts 5
> aggravated damage. Poor Queen Anne is burned, I'm afraid to
> say...bwahahahahahahh!!!
The Sentinel's template (like most melee weapons after Jyhad) is vastly
incorrect. Fortunately, its errors follow the predicatble pattern of
errors: where it says "this minion does X with each strike" it means
"when striking with this weapon, this minion does X with each strike".
So, for each Soul Counter, the Sentinel's strike deals one extra point
of damage. The "hand damage" qualifier is out of place, and it used
out of habit (or cut'n'paste). It probably started as "+1 hand damage
for each Soul Counter" (copying the first sentence's structure), and
then the "+1" was expanded to lessen confusion. No matter: the strike
doesn't deal hand damage, regardless of the number of Soul Counters.
And the Soul Counters do not boost innate hand damage nor damage from
the minion's hand strike. Soul Counters only boost the damage done when
striking with the Sentinel.
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com)
Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team