LSJ-Hukros's special

How many cards may Hukros have on him? His text only limits the amount you may put on him during your untap phase, not how many you could keep on him if you didn't play the last card you put on him during your last untap phase. If this is an unlimited storage annex then you could almost shoehorn him in any deck that includes a wedge/module of discordant cards specifically for him. Is this the way his special works? Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp

> How many cards may Hukros have on him? His text only limits the amount > you may put on him during your untap phase, not how many you could keep > on him if you didn't play the last card you put on him during your last > untap phase. Beat me to the post.... I was just about to type this very question up. ---> J

On 3 Oct 2006 22:06:18 -0700, "XZealot" <xze...@cox.net> wrote: >How many cards may Hukros have on him? His text only limits the amount >you may put on him during your untap phase, not how many you could keep >on him if you didn't play the last card you put on him during your last >untap phase. With nothing to the contrary, this would be unlimited (ie, all your cards could concievably go on him, if the game went 93 rounds). >If this is an unlimited storage annex then you could almost shoehorn >him in any deck that includes a wedge/module of discordant cards >specifically for him. > >Is this the way his special works? I think you run into trouble with the last sentence. Hukros Clan: Gangrel antitribu (group 4) Capacity: 10 Disciplines: ANI OBF PRO VIC abo cel Sabbat: During your untap phase, you may move a card from your hand to Hukros face down. You may look at the card at any time. ****Hukros may**** play that card as if from your hand. Compare with Mata Hari and Tatiana Stepanova, which both include the words "You and she may...". To me Hukros reads that the cards must be playable by him (ie, Action, ActMod, Reaction, Combat), and must be played BY him. But that brings up another query, though. I have Hukros and Duality in play. My predator with Arika calls a PTO. Hukros plays his pre-placed WWEF. Question 1) Does WWEF's Do Not Replace reduce my hand size, causing me to discard a card? I then play a Cat's Guidance (Superior) from hand, for Hukros. Question 2) Does this get replaced, or is my nominal hand size 6 because of the Wake? Arika stealths past, and calls the vote on Duality. Vote passes, Duality will burn. Duality plays Reform Body from my hand. Question 3) I'm confused now. How many cards do I have in hand? The WWEF replacement rule, and Hukros's special, seem to have possibilities for conflict that I can't see a singular answer for. Morgan Vening

Morgan Vening wrote: > On 3 Oct 2006 22:06:18 -0700, "XZealot" <xze...@cox.net> wrote: > > >How many cards may Hukros have on him? His text only limits the amount > >you may put on him during your untap phase, not how many you could keep > >on him if you didn't play the last card you put on him during your last > >untap phase. > > With nothing to the contrary, this would be unlimited (ie, all your > cards could concievably go on him, if the game went 93 rounds). > That's the way I read it too. Of course as noted, only he can use the cards "shoehorned" on to him. > >If this is an unlimited storage annex then you could almost shoehorn > >him in any deck that includes a wedge/module of discordant cards > >specifically for him. > > > >Is this the way his special works? > > I think you run into trouble with the last sentence. > > Hukros > Clan: Gangrel antitribu (group 4) > Capacity: 10 > Disciplines: ANI OBF PRO VIC abo cel > Sabbat: During your untap phase, you may move a card from your hand to > Hukros face down. You may look at the card at any time. ****Hukros > may**** play that card as if from your hand. > But that brings up another query, though. I have Hukros and Duality in > play. My predator with Arika calls a PTO. Hukros plays his pre-placed > WWEF. > > Question 1) Does WWEF's Do Not Replace reduce my hand size, causing me > to discard a card? IANLSJ but, WWEF does not reduce your hand size it is merely not replaced until your next untap phase. as it is not played from your hand, I see no reaon for it too reduce your hand size. Only cards such as the gehenna events have the "reduce hand size" text on them which WWEF does not. > > I then play a Cat's Guidance (Superior) from hand, for Hukros. > > Question 2) Does this get replaced, or is my nominal hand size 6 > because of the Wake? I'd say it gets replaced for the reason I mention above. > > Arika stealths past, and calls the vote on Duality. Vote passes, > Duality will burn. Duality plays Reform Body from my hand. > > Question 3) I'm confused now. How many cards do I have in hand? > I'd still say 7 as per normal. > The WWEF replacement rule, and Hukros's special, seem to have > possibilities for conflict that I can't see a singular answer for. > IMHO, no conflict. WWEF doesn't implicitly reduce hand size, just the timing on when it is replaced. Sutekh_23

sutekh_23 wrote: > Morgan Vening wrote: > > On 3 Oct 2006 22:06:18 -0700, "XZealot" <xze...@cox.net> wrote: > > > > >How many cards may Hukros have on him? His text only limits the amount > > >you may put on him during your untap phase, not how many you could keep > > >on him if you didn't play the last card you put on him during your last > > >untap phase. > > > > With nothing to the contrary, this would be unlimited (ie, all your > > cards could concievably go on him, if the game went 93 rounds). > > That's the way I read it too. Of course as noted, only he can use the > cards "shoehorned" on to him. Correct. > > But that brings up another query, though. I have Hukros and Duality in > > play. My predator with Arika calls a PTO. Hukros plays his pre-placed > > WWEF. > > > > Question 1) Does WWEF's Do Not Replace reduce my hand size, causing me > > to discard a card? > > IANLSJ but, WWEF does not reduce your hand size it is merely not > replaced until your next untap phase. as it is not played from your > hand, I see no reaon for it too reduce your hand size. Only cards such > as the gehenna events have the "reduce hand size" text on them which > WWEF does not. Correct. > > I then play a Cat's Guidance (Superior) from hand, for Hukros. > > > > Question 2) Does this get replaced, or is my nominal hand size 6 > > because of the Wake? > > I'd say it gets replaced for the reason I mention above. Correct. > > Arika stealths past, and calls the vote on Duality. Vote passes, > > Duality will burn. Duality plays Reform Body from my hand. > > > > Question 3) I'm confused now. How many cards do I have in hand? > > > I'd still say 7 as per normal. Correct. > > The WWEF replacement rule, and Hukros's special, seem to have > > possibilities for conflict that I can't see a singular answer for. > > > IMHO, no conflict. WWEF doesn't implicitly reduce hand size, just the > timing on when it is replaced. Correct. The hand size bit is affected by cards that you are not currently replacing, true. But WWEF isn't one of those cards (cards from Hukros's stash, DNR clause or no, are not replaced at all. But they don't count against your hand size).

LSJ wrote: > The hand size bit is affected by cards that you are not currently > replacing, true. But WWEF isn't one of those cards (cards from Hukros's > stash, DNR clause or no, are not replaced at all. But they don't count > against your hand size). I have another problem: So if I play mirror walk (DNR until discard phase) then I use spirit summoning chamber to get for example: another mirror walk..... 1, do I have to discard a card or its "fills" my handsize? 2, in my discard phase do I have to replace the mirror walk and then discard a card (down to my handsize)? thnx Goblin

gazgoblin wrote: > So if I play mirror walk (DNR until discard phase) then I use spirit > summoning chamber to get for example: another mirror walk..... > > 1, do I have to discard a card or its "fills" my handsize? Discard. [1.6.1.2] http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec1_6_1 > 2, in my discard phase do I have to replace the mirror walk and then > discard a card (down to my handsize)? Moot. You simply draw the replacement (which then "fills" your hand size).

thanks for the quick response. Goblin

I'm confused about how Hukro's ability vis-a-vis Master and Event cards. I gather he can't play these, only appropriate minion cards. Would it be futile to put any master cards on him, for instance - other than to just get them out of your hand? I assume it would likewise be futile to put any discipline-based minion cards on him for a discipline he does not possess. (Unless and until he acquires that discipline, I guess.) Fred

Frederick Scott <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote: > I'm confused about how Hukro's ability vis-a-vis Master > and Event cards. I gather he can't play these, only > appropriate minion cards. > Would it be futile to put any master cards on him, > for instance - other than to just get them out of your > hand? There's some strategic element to it, sort of. For example, if your predator has an Erciyes Fragment, you can put unusable-by-Hukros cards onto him instead of discarding them, if you're worried about them being stolen. But then, yeah, they're stuck there until Hukros burns and they go to the ash heap.