rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

dotb question

16 messages from 6 participants · 01 May 2000 – 05 May 2000
original thread on Google Groups

jan willem wijsman

hello everybody, is it correct that the damage of superior dotb isn't negated by combat ends effects (strike cards, etc.). So if my vamp was blocked and I played dawn ops. with dotb, the opposing minion would go to torpor even if that minion ended combat. When exactly is the damage effect of dotb, in other words what does 'end of round' mean here? Thanks a lot, jan willem cheers to Tim

Noal McDonald

jwwi...@hotmail.com wrote: > is it correct that the damage of superior dotb isn't negated > by combat ends effects (strike cards, etc.). Yes, that's correct. > So if my vamp was blocked and I played dawn ops. with dotb, > the opposing minion would go to torpor even if that minion > ended combat. When exactly is the damage effect of dotb, > in other words what does 'end of round' mean here? I believe (and LSJ will correct me if I'm wrong) that the vampire would go to torpor as the damage happens after the end of the round but before combat is ended. Other cards that end combat and inflict damage, like Catatonic Fear, would not send a vampire to torpor when used with Dawn Op as the damage happens after combat ends. Noal McDonald -- "What you cannot enforce, do not command." -- Socrates Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

LSJ

jan willem wijsman wrote: > > hello everybody, > is it correct that the damage of superior dotb isn't negated by combat > ends effects (strike cards, etc.). Yes. DotB deals damage at the end of the round; a strike to end combat will end the round. > So if my vamp was blocked and I > played dawn ops. with dotb, the opposing minion would go to torpor even > if that minion ended combat. Unless he is an ally or converts the damage to normal (Skin of Night), yes. > When exactly is the damage effect of dotb, > in other words what does 'end of round' mean here? When the round ends, whatever the cause. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.geocities.com/vtesrep

Ramsteiner

In article <8ekjag$n3k$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote: <snip> Other cards that end combat and inflict damage, like > Catatonic Fear, would not send a vampire to torpor when used with Dawn > Op as the damage happens after combat ends. > How does that work? Looking at DotB, the damage is inflicted after the round, the same as Catatonic Fear (after errata). If Dawn Ops works with DotB, why would it not work with Catatonic Fear? Michael Eichler [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe

On Tue, 2 May 2000, Ramsteiner wrote: > How does that work? Looking at DotB, the damage is inflicted after the > round, No, at the end of the round, which is still inside combat. The last two phases basically go: - End of round - End of combat > the same as Catatonic Fear (after errata). The damage from Catatonic Fear is dealt outside of combat. > If Dawn Ops works > with DotB, why would it not work with Catatonic Fear? Because Dawn Ops works based on what is or isn't inside combat. DotB is inside combat. CF isn't. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "But I don't have the right to be with you tonight, so please leave me alone with no saviour in sight. I will sleep safe and sound with nobody around me."

ceci...@my-deja.com

In article <Pine.SOL.4.21.0005021133000.11696- 100...@orange.csi.cam.ac.uk>, [ quoted text not captured ] James, If the damage from Catatonic Fear is after combat is ended, can I pervent the damage? I know that some Fortitude cards state pervent all damage for the round while others state for the combat. Paul Cecil [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe

On Tue, 2 May 2000 ceci...@my-deja.com wrote: > James, > If the damage from Catatonic Fear is after combat is ended, can I > pervent the damage? Yes, with a non-combat effect. The combat has ended so combat cards are not playable (save for Psyche!). Basically, you're probably stuck with Blood Tears. > I know that some Fortitude cards state pervent all > damage for the round while others state for the combat. Neither of these are useful. There is no combat anymore. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

ceci...@my-deja.com wrote: > If the damage from Catatonic Fear is after combat is ended, can I > prevent the damage? I know that some Fortitude cards state pervent all > damage for the round while others state for the combat. No,unless the Catatonic Fear was done as an "additional strike" and you had played some "prevent all damage from all strikes this round" effect, like superior Skin of Steel, on one of the earlier damage-dealing strike. You can't play damage prevention except when you have damage to prevent, and (in the case of Catatonic Fear), the damage is done outside of combat, so combat cards cannot be used. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

LSJ wrote: > > ceci...@my-deja.com wrote: > > If the damage from Catatonic Fear is after combat is ended, can I > > prevent the damage? I know that some Fortitude cards state pervent all > > damage for the round while others state for the combat. > > No,unless the Catatonic Fear was done as an "additional strike" and > you had played some "prevent all damage from all strikes this round" > effect, like superior Skin of Steel, on one of the earlier damage-dealing > strike. Scratch that. Skin of Steel's wording specifically limits the effect to the "remainder of the round", so it doesn't qualify for the use I cited above. Sorry about that. [ quoted text not captured ]

ceci...@my-deja.com

In article <Pine.SOL.4.21.0005021133000.11696- 100...@orange.csi.cam.ac.uk>, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > On Tue, 2 May 2000, Ramsteiner wrote: > > How does that work? Looking at DotB, the damage is inflicted after the > > round, > > No, at the end of the round, which is still inside combat. The last two > phases basically go: > > - End of round > - End of combat > > > the same as Catatonic Fear (after errata). > > The damage from Catatonic Fear is dealt outside of combat. > > > If Dawn Ops works > > with DotB, why would it not work with Catatonic Fear? > > Because Dawn Ops works based on what is or isn't inside combat. DotB is > inside combat. CF isn't. > > -- > James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D > "But I don't have the right to be with you tonight, so please leave me > alone with no saviour in sight. I will sleep safe and sound with nobody > around me." > > James, Since we are talking about DotB, the card states "opposing vampire suffers 1 damage after each round, which can not be prevented". Does this mean that if I play 3 DotB that the opposing minion will suffer 3 damage this round and an additional 3 damage each round that I press? [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe

On Tue, 2 May 2000 ceci...@my-deja.com wrote: > James, > Since we are talking about DotB, the card states "opposing vampire > suffers 1 damage after each round, which can not be prevented". Does > this mean that if I play 3 DotB that the opposing minion will suffer 3 > damage this round and an additional 3 damage each round that I press? Yes. Every time the round ends (even prematurely, via S:CE, say) they take 3 unpreventable damage. [ quoted text not captured ]

Noal McDonald

>>> If the damage from Catatonic Fear is after combat is ended, can >>> I prevent the damage? I know that some Fortitude cards state >>> pervent all damage for the round while others state for the combat. >> >> No,unless the Catatonic Fear was done as an "additional strike" >> and you had played some "prevent all damage from all strikes >> this round" effect, like superior Skin of Steel, on one of the >> earlier damage-dealing strike. > > Scratch that. Skin of Steel's wording specifically limits the > effect to the "remainder of the round", so it doesn't qualify > for the use I cited above. Sorry about that. Didn't you make an earlier ruling that said that you could dodge the strike as well, Scott? The other ways to prevent it that I saw were Blood Tears (as mentioned earlier), Resplendent Protector (also not limited to combat in text), Leather Jacket, and maybe Skin of Night (since you can play it early in the round). Noal -- "What you cannot enforce, do not command." -- Socrates [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote: > [Re: Catatonic Fear's damage] > > Didn't you make an earlier ruling that said that you could dodge the > strike as well, Scott? A long time ago, maybe. The current ruling is that dodge is ineffective, since it never resolves (S:CE ends combat immediately, before Dodge). > The other ways to prevent it that I saw were Blood Tears (as mentioned > earlier), Resplendent Protector (also not limited to combat in text), Arg! Resplendent Protector is seriously defective now. The card text changed from Jyhad: "Protector prevents up to 1 damage each combat." to V:TES "Protector may prevent 1 damage to the <minion> employing her." (according to the text database I have). Note: in the latter version, since no scope is given, that would mean "per game" or "per point of damage done", neither of which is acceptable. Also, since this change wasn't listed in the list of intentional changes [TOM 24-NOV-1995], one could assume that the text should function as it did in Jyhad. > Leather Jacket, and maybe Skin of Night (since you can play it early in > the round). Fair examples. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.geocities.com/vtesrep [ quoted text not captured ]

Noal McDonald

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > A long time ago, maybe. The current ruling is that dodge > is ineffective, since it never resolves (S:CE ends combat > immediately, before Dodge). Oh, good. I recall discussing this with you on the mailing list some time ago since you said that Dodge didn't resolve, per se, but rather cancelled the effects of opposing minion's strike on your vampire. This is much better. *nods* *reads back* Incidentally, you stated the correction on 9/25/98. > Arg! Resplendent Protector is seriously defective now. Heh. Glad I could make your day. :) The only reason I caught it was I grepped all cards for the word "prevent" in the text. > The card text changed from Jyhad: "Protector prevents up to 1 > damage each combat." to V:TES "Protector may prevent 1 damage > to the <minion> employing her." (according to the text database > I have). *nods* Sounds right. > Note: in the latter version, since no scope is given, that would > mean "per game" or "per point of damage done", neither of which is > acceptable. Also, since this change wasn't listed in the list of > intentional changes [TOM 24-NOV-1995], one could assume that the > text should function as it did in Jyhad. Should we assume or should this be a ruling? Noal -- "What you cannot enforce, do not command." -- Socrates [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote: > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > Arg! Resplendent Protector is seriously defective now. > > The card text changed from Jyhad: "Protector prevents up to 1 > > damage each combat." to V:TES "Protector may prevent 1 damage > > to the <minion> employing her." (according to the text database > > I have). > > Note: in the latter version, since no scope is given, that would > > mean "per game" or "per point of damage done", neither of which is > > acceptable. Also, since this change wasn't listed in the list of > > intentional changes [TOM 24-NOV-1995], one could assume that the > > text should function as it did in Jyhad. > > Should we assume or should this be a ruling? It would be errata, to change the most-current version (V:TES) to read differently. Errata to Resplendent Protector: Protector may 1 damage each combat to the minion employer her. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.geocities.com/vtesrep [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe

On Wed, 3 May 2000, LSJ wrote: > Errata to Resplendent Protector: Protector may 1 damage each combat > to the minion employer her. Presumably: Resplendent Protect may prevent 1 damage each combat to the minion employing her. [ quoted text not captured ]