rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Strike Question?

9 messages from 6 participants · 23 February 1995 – 02 March 1995
original thread on Google Groups

L. Scott Johnson

QXE...@prodigy.com (Shawn Mccollum) writes: >Can you option not to do any damage with your strike. Reason is, I >always get trapped into a fight with a vamp that has fame. You may not choose 'no strike' as your strike, but are welcomed to dodge or end combat or steal (non-existent) equipment.

Joseph Cochran

In article <3ih50o$17...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>, Shawn Mccollum <QXE...@prodigy.com> wrote: >Can you option not to do any damage with your strike. Reason is, I >always get trapped into a fight with a vamp that has fame. You can't declare 'no strike' as a strike. You can move to long range and declare a hand strike, or you can play a Strike: Dodge, but you have to declare something. | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | js...@vt.edu | ** csi...@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK

Paul Schaaf

Not unless you manuver to long range and then use a short range attack, dodge, end combat, or something similar that results in a non-damaging strike. You can't just choose not to strike. --------- Paul Schaaf sch...@u.washington.edu [ quoted text not captured ]

Alan Kwan

Proper quotations substituted from the last post. The last post was cancelled. Here's the "corrected" post: In article <1995Feb24.0...@cs.cornell.edu> kw...@cs.cornell.edu (Alan Kwan) writes: >In article <3iios6$2...@solaris.cc.vt.edu> js...@discus.ise.vt.edu (Joseph Cochran) writes: >>In article <3ih50o$17...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>, >>Shawn Mccollum <QXE...@prodigy.com> wrote: >>>Can you option not to do any damage with your strike. Reason is, I >>>always get trapped into a fight with a vamp that has fame. >> >> You can't declare 'no strike' as a strike. You can move to long >>range and declare a hand strike, or you can play a Strike: Dodge, but >>you have to declare something. >> > >From the small rulebook: "You cannot opt to not have your minion strike a blow during a round and then later change your mind." (15.1, Choose Strike) >The purpose of this rule seems to be enforcing the sequence of >play (i.e. acting minion committed to choose strike before >the blocker). It "can be" interpretated to mean that >strikes are mandatory, and I understand that this is >the official ruling. > >However, the official ruling makes some of the most unbalancing >cards in the game (Fame, Malkl. Dementia) even worse. Quote from 15.1, Establish Range by Maneuver: "All attacks that are not specifically ranged can only be performed at close range ..." meaning that a Hand strike can only be used at close range. >The rules nowhere state >that "Hand strike at Long Range has no effect". It says that at long range, a hand strike cannot be used, not that it can be used and has no effect. >So, I take it that a minion at long range /do/ >declare "no strike" unless he chooses to play >a useable one. > >In fact, the original rule can be interpretated to mean that >"you /can/ choose not to use a strike", just that you >can't change your mind once committed (LOGIC: negation >of a conjunction = disjunction of the negations, by >De Morgan's rule). It seems to me that the rules were simply written based on the lousy assumption that strikes are always desirable, so the rules didn't explicitly state whether making a strike is optional or mandatory. -- "Live Life with Heart." Alan Kwan kw...@cs.cornell.edu

Joseph Cochran

In article <1995Feb24....@cs.cornell.edu>, Alan Kwan <kw...@cs.cornell.edu> wrote: >>In article <3iios6$2...@solaris.cc.vt.edu> js...@discus.ise.vt.edu (Joseph Cochran) writes: >>> You can't declare 'no strike' as a strike. You can move to long >>>range and declare a hand strike, or you can play a Strike: Dodge, but >>>you have to declare something. >> >>From the small rulebook: > >"You cannot opt to not have your minion strike a blow during >a round and then later change your mind." (15.1, Choose Strike) > >>The purpose of this rule seems to be enforcing the sequence of >>play (i.e. acting minion committed to choose strike before >>the blocker). It "can be" interpretated to mean that >>strikes are mandatory, and I understand that this is >>the official ruling. Yes, it has been interpreted that way as the official ruling. >>However, the official ruling makes some of the most unbalancing >>cards in the game (Fame, Malkl. Dementia) even worse. But it doesn't make them any less official. Nor does it change the fact that that is how the game is played. However, I don't think that there is an error in the ruling that you must choose a strike. See below: > >Quote from 15.1, Establish Range by Maneuver: > >"All attacks that are not specifically ranged can only be >performed at close range ..." meaning that a Hand strike >can only be used at close range. > >>The rules nowhere state >>that "Hand strike at Long Range has no effect". >It says that at long range, a hand strike cannot be >used, not that it can be used and has no effect. >>So, I take it that a minion at long range /do/ >>declare "no strike" unless he chooses to play >>a useable one. No, you can 'declare' or 'choose' any strike you want. You just can't perform that strike. If I choose Ivory Bow as a strike, and you choose Canine Hordes superior, you destroy my Bow first. I then cannot perform my strike. This doesn't mean that I couldn't have chosen it. Likewise, just because I can't perform a hand strike at long range doesn't mean I couldn't have *chosen* it as my strike. >It seems to me that the rules were simply written based >on the lousy assumption that strikes are always >desirable, so the rules didn't explicitly state >whether making a strike is optional or mandatory. Which is why it was officially interpreted for us. On this point, I do agree with the Rules Team. Fame, I'm still hoping for a non-cum reversal, and I wait patiently for Blood Rage to move to Thaumaturgy, but on this one, I agree with them. You can't choose not to strike. Whether you acutally hit or not is another matter altogether. [ quoted text not captured ]

Andrea Williams

<snipped about Fame, strikes> : You can play a strike card that can have no effect (for example, play : a Thrown Sewer Lid at short range), or you can play a strike card that : gives a Dodge or a Combat Ends. <snipped about hand strike> : papillo the malleable About the sewer lid--it does 1R (or 2R, superior) damage, and it's my understanding that R damage may be done at long OR close range...as opposed to cards that say "Strike: ranged," which may only be done at long range. Knowing the rules and using them to my advantage... Andrea

L. Scott Johnson

a...@sun.lclark.edu (Andrea Williams) writes: ><snipped about Fame, strikes> >: You can play a strike card that can have no effect (for example, play >: a Thrown Sewer Lid at short range), or you can play a strike card that >: gives a Dodge or a Combat Ends. ><snipped about hand strike> >: papillo the malleable >About the sewer lid--it does 1R (or 2R, superior) damage, and it's my >understanding that R damage may be done at long OR close range...as >opposed to cards that say "Strike: ranged," which may only be done at >long range. Thrown Sewer Lid says "not usable at close range" or "only usable at long range" (I forget which, but it doesn't matter). Therefore no only can it not do damage at close range, it can't even be played at close range. Sorry Papi. (Ref: only usable during a political action - you can't play (burn) it any other time).

James Bowes

You may seem to know your cards, but are forgetting (or ignorring) the sentence which states "only usable at long range". As well as one _thinks_ they know their cards, mistakes do sometimes crop up. (I have been victim to "knowing my cards" myself, so I don't consider myself a saint or anything.) Remy leb...@u.washington.edu | It's not my fault! Gambit at the U.W. | Laugh it up fuzzball! | - Han Solo "I don't want the world, I just want your half." "Life is like a riddle, and I'm really stumped." [ quoted text not captured ]

Andrea Williams

Sorry, I was thinking of Thrown Gate, which does R and gives maneuver... Andrea Willing to admit I'm wrong, and using it to my advantage... James Bowes (leb...@u.washington.edu) wrote: : You may seem to know your cards, but are forgetting (or ignorring) the : sentence which states "only usable at long range". As well as one : _thinks_ they know their cards, mistakes do sometimes crop up. (I have : been victim to "knowing my cards" myself, so I don't consider myself a : saint or anything.) : Remy <snip cutesy tag> : On 28 Feb 1995, Andrea Williams wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] : > : >