Cheesy Tactic

Let's say I have a vampire in torpor that is drained... That same vampire is in my uncontrolled region just waiting to come out... Can I bring out my uncontrolled vamp, contest and give up my torpored vamp instead? Is this legal?? Huh huh?? OAFLORD aka Thomas Kuster V:EKN Prince of Caledon "Of Man's first disobedience, and the fruit Of that forbidden tree whose mortal taste Brought death into the world, and all our woe." John Milton Paradise Lost. Book i. Line 1.

> Let's say I have a vampire in torpor that is drained... That same vampire is > in my uncontrolled region just waiting to come out... Can I bring out my > uncontrolled vamp, contest and give up my torpored vamp instead? Is this > legal?? Huh huh?? Yes, it is legal. But unless you are in a really tight spot, it's not that great of an idea. Here's why: Turn 1: bring out Jost to contest the Jost in your torpor region Turn 2: During untap, yield the copy of Jost in your torpor region, pay 1 to contest the Jost in your active region (don't ask me, it doesn't make any sense, yes, but I didn't make the rules) Turn 3: During your untap, gain control of Jost in your active region. This is a good tactic for stalling a combat predator who is rushing your vamps, but it's costly and not applicable in all situations. Sorrow

>Let's say I have a vampire in torpor that is drained... That same vampire is >in my uncontrolled region just waiting to come out... Can I bring out my >uncontrolled vamp, contest and give up my torpored vamp instead? Is this >legal?? Huh huh?? > Hope so. I've used it before. The downside is that it takes some time, I believe. I was told you can't use the new vampire for one full turn after you yield the one in torpor (it's still in "contested" mode until it starts the turn uncontested), and you can't yield the one in torpor until the untap phase after you've started to contested it, generally the turn after the influence phase in which you brought it on. So that's two turns around the table (though only one minion phase) from start to finish. I'm not sure if this reading is correct though. Can someone confirm that? Fred

"Sorrow" <cbo...@apdi.net> wrote: > > I have a vampire in torpor that is drained... That same vampire is > > in my uncontrolled region just waiting to come out... Can I bring > > out my uncontrolled vamp, contest and give up my torpored vamp > > instead? Is this legal?? Huh huh?? > > Yes, it is legal. But unless you are in a really tight spot, it's not > that great of an idea. Here's why: > > Turn 1: bring out Jost to contest the Jost in your torpor region > Turn 2: During untap, yield the copy of Jost in your torpor region, > pay 1 to contest the Jost in your active region (don't ask > me, it doesn't make any sense, yes, but I didn't make the > rules) Contesting with oneself in inherently nonsensical: "I've got control of Jost, but now I have also excerised my influence over Jost - now let's see if I can wrestle control of him from myself so that I can finally control him." For this to make sense, the rules would have to be errata'ed to say that you cannot contest your own cards. That little addendum is an unecessary complication of the rules, given the frequency with which one wants to self-contest a card, so it has so far remained absent. Instead, for the self-contesting corner case, it was decided to simply let the rules, as written for the more common case of two-party contests, apply (that's [4.1], or V:TES printed rulebook [15]). That is, "The cost to contest a card is one pool, which you pay during each of your untap phases. Instead of paying the cost to contest the card, you may choose to yield the card." So, if you don't want to yield both copies of Jost, you'll have to contest one of the copies. The cost of contesting is one pool. This makes sense from the rulebook text, and makes at least as much sense from a real-world POV as contesting with oneself does. > Turn 3: During your untap, gain control of Jost in your active region. Correct: "If all other copies of a card you are contesting are yielded, then the card is untapped and turned face-up at the start of your next untap phase, ending the contest." (Note: "ready region" is the preferred term for "active region", since the latter was sometimes used to mean "controlled region" by some card writers). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

LSJ wrote in message <8l9ff6$8lo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>... >"Sorrow" <cbo...@apdi.net> wrote: snip...(don't ask >> me, it doesn't make any sense, yes, but I didn't make the >> rules) > >Contesting with oneself in inherently nonsensical: "I've got control of >Jost, but now I have also excerised my influence over Jost - now let's >see if I can wrestle control of him from myself so that I can finally >control him." > >For this to make sense, the rules would have to be errata'ed to say >that you cannot contest your own cards. > >That little addendum is an unecessary complication of the rules, >given the frequency with which one wants to self-contest a card, so >it has so far remained absent. Instead, for the self-contesting >corner case, it was decided to simply let the rules, as written for >the more common case of two-party contests, apply (that's [4.1], or >V:TES printed rulebook [15]). > Naaaahh... It's like i always say, if you can't come up with a "real world" scenario that suits the way the rules are written, you aren't thinking abstractly enough. In this case, the contestation time and expense of an additional pool represents the additional time and effort required to have your minion (Jost) fake his own Final Death, and resurface once more to do your bidding. It's easy... see? :-) Regards, R. David Zopf Atom Weaver V:EKN Prince of Charlotte, NC

Not as cheesy as some here have played it in the past, and not as cheesy as I'd like it to be!! :-( Oh well... oAFLORD aka Thomas Kuster V:EKN Prince of Caledon R. David Zopf <guenh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:8l9i20$cde$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net... [ quoted text not captured ]