Certain cards can cause your vampires to become 'paralyzed'. In the rules
it says that they are put into torpor tapped and are not untapped as
normal. But it never explains how you can untap them. Does the paralyze
go away as soon as your vampire is rescued? Does this mean it cant escape
by itself and must be rescued to return to play? Anybody know?
In article <32rltn$ft6@giga.bga.com>, tholal@bga.com (Phil Hall) writes:
>Certain cards can cause your vampires to become 'paralyzed'. In the rules
>it says that they are put into torpor tapped and are not untapped as
>normal. But it never explains how you can untap them. Does the paralyze
>go away as soon as your vampire is rescued? Does this mean it cant escape
>by itself and must be rescued to return to play? Anybody know?
"Any vampire who encounters a vampire in torpor may rescue it at no
cost." - pg 36
Its like a normal rescue except that you don't need to spend the
blood to effect a rescue like you would with normal torpor. The fact
that it goes in tapped and doesn't untap normally means that the
vampire can't spend two blood to rescue itself.
In article <32rltn$ft6@giga.bga.com> tholal@bga.com (Phil Hall) writes:
>Certain cards can cause your vampires to become 'paralyzed'. In the rules
>it says that they are put into torpor tapped and are not untapped as
>normal. But it never explains how you can untap them. Does the paralyze
>go away as soon as your vampire is rescued? Does this mean it cant escape
>by itself and must be rescued to return to play? Anybody know?
I don't know for sure, but I think your interpretation is correct.
Here is how I would rewrite that section of the rules:
Paralyze: This paralyzes a vampire and sends it into torpor, tapped.
Mark the vampire with a counter to show that it has been paralyzed. As
long as the vampire is paralyzed, it may not be untapped. A paralyzed
vampire may only be unparalyzed and brought out of torpor if it is
rescued by another vampire. The procedure for rescuing a paralyzed
vampire is the same as rescuing a vampire in torpor (see section 16.3)
except no blood points are sacrificed. If the rescue attempt is
successful, the vampire is unparalyzed (remove the paralyzation
counter from the vampire) and is no longer in torpor.
--
Michael Wang
mmwang@mv.us.adobe.com
In article <32rltn$ft6@giga.bga.com>, tholal@bga.com (Phil Hall) writes:
|> Certain cards can cause your vampires to become 'paralyzed'. In the rules
|> it says that they are put into torpor tapped and are not untapped as
|> normal. But it never explains how you can untap them. Does the paralyze
|> go away as soon as your vampire is rescued? Does this mean it cant escape
|> by itself and must be rescued to return to play? Anybody know?
That's how I read it. I thought the rules mentioned this. It must be rescued
and then can untap as normal when it is ready. It cannot leave by itself.
--
Roberto Ullfig - ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov
In article <1994Aug17.060632.13329@adobe.com>, mmwang@mv.us.adobe.com (Michael Wang) writes:
|> In article <32rltn$ft6@giga.bga.com> tholal@bga.com (Phil Hall) writes:
|> >Certain cards can cause your vampires to become 'paralyzed'. In the rules
|> >it says that they are put into torpor tapped and are not untapped as
|> >normal. But it never explains how you can untap them. Does the paralyze
|> >go away as soon as your vampire is rescued? Does this mean it cant escape
|> >by itself and must be rescued to return to play? Anybody know?
|>
|> I don't know for sure, but I think your interpretation is correct.
|> Here is how I would rewrite that section of the rules:
|>
|> Paralyze: This paralyzes a vampire and sends it into torpor, tapped.
|> Mark the vampire with a counter to show that it has been paralyzed. As
|> long as the vampire is paralyzed, it may not be untapped. A paralyzed
|> vampire may only be unparalyzed and brought out of torpor if it is
|> rescued by another vampire. The procedure for rescuing a paralyzed
|> vampire is the same as rescuing a vampire in torpor (see section 16.3)
|> except no blood points are sacrificed. If the rescue attempt is
|> successful, the vampire is unparalyzed (remove the paralyzation
|> counter from the vampire) and is no longer in torpor.
|>
|>
I would say pretty much correct except for the fact that blood is always
spent in a rescue attempt, either by the rescuer or the rescuee or both.
--
Roberto Ullfig - ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov
In article <32t137$3j7@fnnews.fnal.gov>, ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov (Roberto Ullfig) writes:
>I would say pretty much correct except for the fact that blood is always
>spent in a rescue attempt, either by the rescuer or the rescuee or both.
Not in the case of Paralyze, that's in the rules, pg 36. It distinctly
states that the rescuing vampire doesn't have to spend a blood point
to rescue a Paralyzed vampire.
--
Martin Terman, Mutant for Hire, Synchronicity Daemon, Priest of Shub-Internet
Disclaimer: Sticks and stones may break my bones, but flames are just ignored
mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu mfterman@pucc.bitnet an78529@anon.penet.fi
"Sig quotes are like bumper stickers, only without the same sense of relevance"
In article <1994Aug17.185455.13323@adobe.com>, mmwang@mv.us.adobe.com (Michael Wang) writes:
|> In article <32t137$3j7@fnnews.fnal.gov> ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov (Roberto Ullfig) writes:
|> >I would say pretty much correct except for the fact that blood is always
|> >spent in a rescue attempt, either by the rescuer or the rescuee or both.
|>
|> That's not how I interpret the rules (page 36):
|>
|> Paralyze: This sends a vampire to torpor, tapped. The vampire cannot
|> be untapped during the untap phase. Any vampire who encounters a
|> vampire in torpor may rescue it at no cost.
|> ^^^^^^^^^^
|> This to me implies that rescuing a paralyzed vampire does not cost
|> either vampire any blood points.
|>
|> --
|> Michael Wang
|> mmwang@mv.us.adobe.com
Hmm. If you're quoting correctly it appears that your right. That would mean
though that it is better to be paralyzed then to take aggravated damage for
example. It kind of doesn't make sense intuitively. I wonder if they made
a mistake while writing the rules. Then again, that could be the intent.
--
Roberto Ullfig - ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov
In article <32ts57$qhr@fnnews.fnal.gov> ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov (Roberto Ullfig) writes:
>Hmm. If you're quoting correctly it appears that your right. That would mean
>though that it is better to be paralyzed then to take aggravated damage for
>example. It kind of doesn't make sense intuitively. I wonder if they made
>a mistake while writing the rules. Then again, that could be the intent.
Being paralyzed is only better than being hit with aggravated damage
if you have a "free" vampire that can come rescue you. Otherwise, if
all of your vampires are busy, then being able to pay the 2 blood
points (if the vampire has them) to "self-rescue" is probably better.
Also, I do think my interpretation makes sense. From what I can tell
from the cards I've looked at, the only way to paralyze a vampire is
to hit it twice with a stake -- with the second hit paralyzing the
vampire. At that point, the vampire is immobilized and can't move. All
you need to do to remobilize that vampire is to have another vampire
come by and pull the stake out -- no need to feed him blood or whatnot.
--
Michael Wang
mmwang@mv.us.adobe.com
In rec.games.deckmaster ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov (Roberto Ullfig) writes:
>In article <1994Aug17.185455.13323@adobe.com>, mmwang@mv.us.adobe.com (Michael Wang) writes:
>|> In article <32t137$3j7@fnnews.fnal.gov> ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov (Roberto Ullfig) writes:
>|> >I would say pretty much correct except for the fact that blood is always
>|> >spent in a rescue attempt, either by the rescuer or the rescuee or both.
>|>
>|> That's not how I interpret the rules (page 36):
>|>
>|> Paralyze: This sends a vampire to torpor, tapped. The vampire cannot
>|> be untapped during the untap phase. Any vampire who encounters a
>|> vampire in torpor may rescue it at no cost.>|> This to me implies that rescuing a paralyzed vampire does not cost
>|> either vampire any blood points.>|> Michael Wang
>|> mmwang@mv.us.adobe.com>Hmm. If you're quoting correctly it appears that your right. That would mean
>though that it is better to be paralyzed then to take aggravated damage for
>example.
Not necessarily. If you take aggravated damage, you're likely to have
enough blood to be able to rescue yourself. It's very handy to not
have to tap another vampire to rescue one from torpor.
Rollie
Quoting from the JYHAD FAQ from WotC:
How do I get my vampire out of torpor?
If your vampire went into torpor with counters still on it (by paralyzation
or by aggravated damage), then as an action it can rescue itself at the cost
of two blood. If it doesn't have enough, then it can be rescued by another
minion. The rescuing minion taps to visit the vampire in torpor and must
spend two of its blood, or both the rescuing vampire and the rescued vampire
spend one blood each. The vampire so rescued is then active again, but if it
has no blood, it must hunt the next turn.
My vampire went into torpor tapped, but he had enough blood to get himself
out. How can he get himself out if he's tapped?
Even vampires in torpor untap during the untap phase.
I read this to say that paralyze is just a quick trip to torpor and anyone
rescuing him/her must pay blood to do it.
In article <32ubem$hi@rosie.next.com>, jglasson@next.com (Jeff Glasson) writes:
>How do I get my vampire out of torpor?
>If your vampire went into torpor with counters still on it (by paralyzation
>or by aggravated damage), then as an action it can rescue itself at the cost
>of two blood. If it doesn't have enough, then it can be rescued by another
>minion. The rescuing minion taps to visit the vampire in torpor and must
>spend two of its blood, or both the rescuing vampire and the rescued vampire
>spend one blood each. The vampire so rescued is then active again, but if it
>has no blood, it must hunt the next turn.
The FAQ forgot to mention that you have to tap the vampire in order to spend
the blood so it can rescue itself. That's an important point.
>My vampire went into torpor tapped, but he had enough blood to get himself
>out. How can he get himself out if he's tapped?
>Even vampires in torpor untap during the untap phase.
Unless they've been paralyzed, in which case it clearly states on pg 36
that they do not untap as normal during untap phase. Since they are stuck
tapped, they can't rescue themselves. Technically they are in torpor, but
its a rather unusual version of it.
>I read this to say that paralyze is just a quick trip to torpor and anyone
>rescuing him/her must pay blood to do it.
Nope. Paralyze sends a vampire to torpor in such a way that the only way
it can get out is to be rescued, and that there is no blood cost to do so.
It even explicitly states in the rules the rescue costs no blood points.
--
Martin Terman, Mutant for Hire, Synchronicity Daemon, Priest of Shub-Internet
Disclaimer: Sticks and stones may break my bones, but flames are just ignored
mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu mfterman@pucc.bitnet an78529@anon.penet.fi
"Sig quotes are like bumper stickers, only without the same sense of relevance"
In article <32ubem$hi@rosie.next.com> jglasson@next.com (Jeff Glasson) writes:
>Quoting from the JYHAD FAQ from WotC:
>
>How do I get my vampire out of torpor?
>If your vampire went into torpor with counters still on it (by paralyzation
>or by aggravated damage), then as an action it can rescue itself at the cost
>of two blood. If it doesn't have enough, then it can be rescued by another
>minion. The rescuing minion taps to visit the vampire in torpor and must
>spend two of its blood, or both the rescuing vampire and the rescued vampire
>spend one blood each. The vampire so rescued is then active again, but if it
>has no blood, it must hunt the next turn.
>
>My vampire went into torpor tapped, but he had enough blood to get himself
>out. How can he get himself out if he's tapped?
>Even vampires in torpor untap during the untap phase.
>
>I read this to say that paralyze is just a quick trip to torpor and anyone
>rescuing him/her must pay blood to do it.
Interesting. I still feel this interpretation contradicts the printed
rules -- e.g. the rules explicitly state a paralyzed vampire does not
untap during the untap phase -- but obviously if WotC says you pay
blood to rescue a paralyzed vampire then you pay blood.
*Sigh* I wish they would do a better job at editing rules like these.
They would save themselves so much time and effort if they would just
make them clear and explicit to begin with.
Could you post the entire FAQ to the group? I think that would be very
useful to a lot of people just starting to learn the game like myself.
--
Michael Wang
mmwang@mv.us.adobe.com
In article <32ubem$hi@rosie.next.com>, jglasson@next.com (Jeff Glasson) writes:
|> Quoting from the JYHAD FAQ from WotC:
|>
|> How do I get my vampire out of torpor?
|> If your vampire went into torpor with counters still on it (by paralyzation
|> or by aggravated damage), then as an action it can rescue itself at the cost
|> of two blood. If it doesn't have enough, then it can be rescued by another
|> minion. The rescuing minion taps to visit the vampire in torpor and must
|> spend two of its blood, or both the rescuing vampire and the rescued vampire
|> spend one blood each. The vampire so rescued is then active again, but if it
|> has no blood, it must hunt the next turn.
|>
|> My vampire went into torpor tapped, but he had enough blood to get himself
|> out. How can he get himself out if he's tapped?
|> Even vampires in torpor untap during the untap phase.
|>
|> I read this to say that paralyze is just a quick trip to torpor and anyone
|> rescuing him/her must pay blood to do it.
Well, it seems we have a rules contradiction unless the FAQ takes precedence
but there is an error in the FAQ so I don't now if I can trust it. A paralyzed
vampire *cannot* rescure itself because it cannot untap and it needs to tap
to rescue itself.
--
Roberto Ullfig - ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov
In article <1994Aug18.100038.22103@adobe.com>, mmwang@mv.us.adobe.com (Michael Wang) writes:
|>
|> Interesting. I still feel this interpretation contradicts the printed
|> rules -- e.g. the rules explicitly state a paralyzed vampire does not
|> untap during the untap phase -- but obviously if WotC says you pay
|> blood to rescue a paralyzed vampire then you pay blood.
|>
|> *Sigh* I wish they would do a better job at editing rules like these.
|> They would save themselves so much time and effort if they would just
|> make them clear and explicit to begin with.
|>
|> Could you post the entire FAQ to the group? I think that would be very
|> useful to a lot of people just starting to learn the game like myself.
|>
|> --
|> Michael Wang
|> mmwang@mv.us.adobe.com
The FAQ came with rules I got in the mail. Most of it just restated the rules
and was pretty useless. The rules have very few examples and the ones they
do have cover really simple areas that really don't need any examples. The
rules are poorly organised. It talks about all sorts of stuff before it even
gets into the sequence of play. You really have to read it twice through to
understand things. It took me a long time to figure out what actions a vampire
in torpor could do. For a while there it seemed like it could do any action
but then I saw the one line (under minion actions:leaving torpor) where it said
that this is the only action it could do. I would have expected this line
to be under the vampires in torpor section.
--
Roberto Ullfig - ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov
In article <1994Aug18.100038.22103@adobe.com> mmwang@mv.us.adobe.com (Michael
Wang) writes:
>
> Interesting. I still feel this interpretation contradicts the printed
> rules -- e.g. the rules explicitly state a paralyzed vampire does not
> untap during the untap phase -- but obviously if WotC says you pay
> blood to rescue a paralyzed vampire then you pay blood.
>
> *Sigh* I wish they would do a better job at editing rules like these.
> They would save themselves so much time and effort if they would just
> make them clear and explicit to begin with.
>
> Could you post the entire FAQ to the group? I think that would be very
> useful to a lot of people just starting to learn the game like myself.
>
Sorry, buy I've got hard copy of the FAQ and don't really want to type in two
81/2 x 11 pages of small type.
But you're right. I took a look at the corrected rules about paralyze and
they say:
Paralyze: This sends a vampire to torpor, tapped. The vampire cannot be
untapped during the untap phase. Any vampire that encounters a vampire in
torpor may rescue it at no cost. A paralyzed vampire may be diablerized as
usual. Mark the vampire to show it has been paralyzed.
Now I'm really confused. This section doesn't even mention that the
encountered vamp in torpor has to be paralyzed to be rescued at no cost.
Can someone from WotC give us a clear answer on this?
Jeff
I have a different question about torpor. The rules say that an
encounter with a vampire in torpor is an action, and at +1 stelth if
it is your own vampire. It also says that leaving torpor is an action
requiring the payment of two blood. Is this a separate action from
the encounter? (It looks like it must be, you have the choice of
either rescue or destruction during the encounter, with different
costs and rules for each. Who takes the rescue action, the rescuer,
the rescuee or both? It is at +1 stelth? What if both vampires are
tapped, one from the encounter, the other from paralzye? Do you have
to wait for the next turn, if you have no way to untap the rescuer?
--
Robert I. Eachus
with Standard_Disclaimer;
use Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...
All of WotC that knows anything about Jyhad is in Gencon, sorry. I
haven't even gotten a card list for Jyhad, not to mention any special
information. We're supposed to get them next week, and I'm sure Tom will
know the answer to this when he gets back, since he's hanging out for at
least part of the time with the WotC people.
Lorini
Wizards of the Coast Netrep for CIS's RPGames Forum
--
*****************************************
Jennifer Schlickbernd (Lorini) Communication paths:
lorini@netcom.com 72466.3413@compuserve.com
Day phone 8-5 PST (818) 354-2241
In article <EACHUS.94Aug19111724@spectre.mitre.org>, eachus@spectre.mitre.org (Robert I. Eachus) writes:
|>
|> I have a different question about torpor. The rules say that an
|> encounter with a vampire in torpor is an action, and at +1 stelth if
|> it is your own vampire. It also says that leaving torpor is an action
|> requiring the payment of two blood. Is this a separate action from
|> the encounter? (It looks like it must be, you have the choice of
|> either rescue or destruction during the encounter, with different
|> costs and rules for each. Who takes the rescue action, the rescuer,
|> the rescuee or both? It is at +1 stelth? What if both vampires are
|> tapped, one from the encounter, the other from paralzye? Do you have
|> to wait for the next turn, if you have no way to untap the rescuer?
|>
They are separate actions. A vampire out of torpor can attempt to rescue;
a vampire in torpor can attempt to leave (if it is untapped and has at
least 2 blood). In the first case the vampire gets a +1 if it attempts
to rescue a vampire controlled by the same Methuselah. In the second case,
the vampire always gets a +1. If the rescuer is blocked then the rescue
attempt fails and the vampire that attempted the rescue goes into combat.
You can try to rescue with another vampire or the vampire in torpor can try
to leave by himself (if it is untapped and has at least 2 blood).
One thing not covered in the rules is whether a vampire that just got out
of torpor can do any actions that turn. We said no.
--
Roberto Ullfig - ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov
In article <332m1t$9l4@fnnews.fnal.gov> ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov (Roberto Ullfig) writes:
> They are separate actions. A vampire out of torpor can attempt to rescue;
> a vampire in torpor can attempt to leave (if it is untapped and has at
> least 2 blood). In the first case the vampire gets a +1 if it attempts
> to rescue a vampire controlled by the same Methuselah. In the second case,
> the vampire always gets a +1. If the rescuer is blocked then the rescue
> attempt fails and the vampire that attempted the rescue goes into combat.
> You can try to rescue with another vampire or the vampire in torpor can try
> to leave by himself (if it is untapped and has at least 2 blood).
If I have a vampire in torpor and want to rescue it, does the
rescuer pay two blood even if blocked? That is my question. I figure
not. The ready vampire does the encounter, and gives the vampire in
torpor 0,1, or 2 blood, which the vampire in torpor can now use to
attempt to leave.
But then what happens in the case of encounter with a paralyzed
vampire? Does the paralyzed vampire unparalyze, then untap and
attempt to leave next turn? Or does the encounter last two turns.
--
Robert I. Eachus
with Standard_Disclaimer;
use Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...
In article <EACHUS.94Aug19192126@spectre.mitre.org> eachus@spectre.mitre.org (Robert I. Eachus) writes:
> If I have a vampire in torpor and want to rescue it, does the
>rescuer pay two blood even if blocked? That is my question. I figure
>not. The ready vampire does the encounter, and gives the vampire in
>torpor 0,1, or 2 blood, which the vampire in torpor can now use to
>attempt to leave.
Another unclear rule. The rules state that a vampire in torpor trying
to "self-rescue" does pay the 2 blood points even if the action is
blocked, but it does not say whether or not blood points have to be
paid if a would-be rescuer is blocked. I would assume, giving the
first part, that it does.
> But then what happens in the case of encounter with a paralyzed
>vampire? Does the paralyzed vampire unparalyze, then untap and
>attempt to leave next turn? Or does the encounter last two turns.
I would assume that the vampire is unparalyzed and rescued in the same
action.
BTW, has anybody found the rule which says a vampire in torpor that is
rescued moves back to the active region? As far as I can tell, they
left that part out of the rules.
--
Michael Wang
mmwang@mv.us.adobe.com
In article <3386pd$b4a@hobbes.cc.uga.edu>, stone@phoenix.cs.uga.edu
(Robert) writes:
And I thought that vague phrases like "terms of the vote" were bad!
(Anyone
figured out what constitutes "terms" in a vote yet?)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
OK, as an example, there is a political action card that lets players vote
on the number of blood points the next player to kill his prey will
receive (instead of the usual 6) This number can be from 1 to 12. Say I
lay this card down and call for a vote. A blocking player must attempt to
block before it is determined what the number will be, (1-12) because all
blocks to a political action must be attempted before the 'terms of the
vote' are announced.
In article <3386pd$b4a@hobbes.cc.uga.edu>,
Robert <stone@phoenix.cs.uga.edu> wrote:
>
>And I thought that vague phrases like "terms of the vote" were bad! (Anyone
>figured out what constitutes "terms" in a vote yet?)
I took it to mean that (for example, of course) if you played say Camarilla
Exemplary, that the terms of the vote would be the vampire that you choose
to bestow this ability onto...
Sounds a bit confusing reading that sentence through, but you should get
the idea..
>
--
jojaste@ \ She walks in the twilight, her steps make no sound.
descartes < Lost Soul: Her feet leave no tracks on the dew-covered ground.
uwaterloo > (MtG) Her hand gently beckons, she whispers your name--
ca \ But those who go with her are never the same.
stone@phoenix.cs.uga.edu (Robert) writes:
>And I thought that vague phrases like "terms of the vote" were bad! (Anyone
>figured out what constitutes "terms" in a vote yet?)
Sure. Example, DRAMATIC UPHEAVAL +1 Stealth. All kindred POlitical Card
worth 1 vote. Choose Methuselah, succesful vote means your switch places
with the Methuselah.
The "terms" for this vote are WHICH Methuselah. Now, when you switch do
you trade chairs and move your cards? I assume so.
--
| kreme@netcom.com \ 1015 South Gaylord, Denver, CO 80209 #100 |
| PGP Fingerprint \ 1D 5E F7 C8 7E C2 F9 87 0F 86 C9 B0 D2 63 9C B2 |
| [303/722-2009] Vox \ I haven't seen anything like that since the |
| [303/777-2911] Data \ Pin~ata death duels on Nuevo Tiajuana!! |
In article <33dlmo$k4a@perv.hal.com>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote:
>I don't see why it wouldn't be able to, assuming that it comes out of
>torpor untapped. In fact, the typical method of coming out of torpor (at
>least in the games I've played) is for a vampire to be in torpor with no
>blood on it, and is then rescued by another vampire... the rescued vampire
>is now in play and untapped with no blood on it, so has to hunt.
>If the vampire got itself out of torpor (and thus tapped), then it wouldn't
>be able to do anything, no.
>
This brings up a question that I've had: it was my understanding that all
hunting had to be done at the beginning of the minion phase. So, my question
is that when an untapped vampire is brought out of torpor by another vampire
it's already missed the beginning of the minion phase so can it still hunt?
My original interpretation was that it could do nothing that turn since the
rules say that vamps at zero blood must hunt - so it would have to wait until
the next turn, hunt, and then on the turn after that it could take a normal
action. But, I've since been told that it should be able to take a normal
action on the turn it's brought out, since it missed the hunting period at
the beginning of the turn, and now from your post it sounds like an untapped
vampire could still hunt even though it missed the beginning of the phase.
Well, I'm definitely confused here but hopefully someone can let me know which
interpretation is correct - A)the vamp can do nothing B)it can still hunt
or C)it can take a normal action.
*sigh*
Scott
storm@tamsun.tamu.edu
In article <33fnn9$b4e@tamsun.tamu.edu>,
Edward S Shaw <storm@tamsun.tamu.edu> wrote:
>In article <33dlmo$k4a@perv.hal.com>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote:>>I don't see why it wouldn't be able to, assuming that it comes out of
>>torpor untapped. In fact, the typical method of coming out of torpor (at
>>least in the games I've played) is for a vampire to be in torpor with no
>>blood on it, and is then rescued by another vampire... the rescued vampire
>>is now in play and untapped with no blood on it, so has to hunt.
>>If the vampire got itself out of torpor (and thus tapped), then it wouldn't
>>be able to do anything, no.
>>>
>This brings up a question that I've had: it was my understanding that all
>hunting had to be done at the beginning of the minion phase. So, my question
There is not, to my knowledge, any kind of priority to any actions a vampyre
takes in the Minion Action Phase. However, a vampyre with no blood on it
must hunt during that phase. This doesn't, however, preclude you from
using your other vampyres to do bleeds, start votes, acquire equipment,
etc. before you hunt with the vampyre required to do so. It may also be
advantageous to do so; the other actions may get your opponent to use their
intercept cards/abilities on them instead of on the hapless vampyre...
>is that when an untapped vampire is brought out of torpor by another vampire
>it's already missed the beginning of the minion phase so can it still hunt?
>My original interpretation was that it could do nothing that turn since the
>rules say that vamps at zero blood must hunt - so it would have to wait until
>the next turn, hunt, and then on the turn after that it could take a normal
>action. But, I've since been told that it should be able to take a normal
>action on the turn it's brought out, since it missed the hunting period at
>the beginning of the turn, and now from your post it sounds like an untapped
>vampire could still hunt even though it missed the beginning of the phase.
>Well, I'm definitely confused here but hopefully someone can let me know which
>interpretation is correct - A)the vamp can do nothing B)it can still hunt
>or C)it can take a normal action.
>
If the vampyre was brought out of torpor by another vampyre, it is not
tapped (or rather, it does not become tapped; if was tapped in torpor, it
will be tapped when it's brought out).
This means that the vampyre can take an action before the end of the Minion
Action Phase. However, if the vampyre has no blood on it, it is required,
by law, to hunt for its action. You cannot end your minion action phase
without having an untapped vampyre, with no blood on it, hunt.
...Paul
--
+ + + + + + + + + + +
Paul, cleggp@aol.com. yIlImQo'qu' Don't Panic! alt.galactic-guide yIlaD
"When doth life leave the weary?
'Tis not death I fear, but the end of living." -- Paul
In article <33foql$2gv@usenet.rpi.edu>, cleggp@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (...Paul) writes:
|> by law, to hunt for its action. You cannot end your minion action phase
|> without having an untapped vampyre, with no blood on it, hunt.
|>
However, the rules (inc FAQ) do not say this anywhere.
--
Roberto Ullfig - ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov
In article <33fq8c$fdc@fnnews.fnal.gov>,
Roberto Ullfig <ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov> wrote:
>In article <33foql$2gv@usenet.rpi.edu>, cleggp@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (...Paul) writes:
>
>|> by law, to hunt for its action. You cannot end your minion action phase
>|> without having an untapped vampyre, with no blood on it, hunt.
>|>
>
>However, the rules (inc FAQ) do not say this anywhere.
Given everything I've seen in the rulebook, this is pretty much true. BTW,
if you have a copy of the FAQ, could you e-mail it this way? I haven't
seen it yet...
...Paul
--
+ + + + + + + + + + +
Paul, cleggp@aol.com. yIlImQo'qu' Don't Panic! alt.galactic-guide yIlaD
"When doth life leave the weary?
'Tis not death I fear, but the end of living." -- Paul
Edward S Shaw <storm@tamsun.tamu.edu> wrote:
>This brings up a question that I've had: it was my understanding that all
>hunting had to be done at the beginning of the minion phase. So, my question
>is that when an untapped vampire is brought out of torpor by another vampire
>it's already missed the beginning of the minion phase so can it still hunt?
Eep! Good point, I'd missed that. I'll try to confirm that it's impossible
to hunt once a non-hunting action has been taken by any vampire.
Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for
aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
In article <33g8it$23b@perv.hal.com>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote:
>Edward S Shaw <storm@tamsun.tamu.edu> wrote:>>This brings up a question that I've had: it was my understanding that all
>>hunting had to be done at the beginning of the minion phase. So, my question
>>is that when an untapped vampire is brought out of torpor by another vampire
>>it's already missed the beginning of the minion phase so can it still hunt?>
>Eep! Good point, I'd missed that. I'll try to confirm that it's impossible
>to hunt once a non-hunting action has been taken by any vampire.
Holy Cow! If you're right, Tom, then there is a MAJOR gap in the rules I
have. Nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE does it say that any particular actions
taken by vampires have to come at any particular point in the Minion Phase.
Nor is this ever even hinted at in any of the examples or other parts of
the booklet...
...Paul
--
+ + + + + + + + + + +
Paul, cleggp@aol.com. yIlImQo'qu' Don't Panic! alt.galactic-guide yIlaD
"When doth life leave the weary?
'Tis not death I fear, but the end of living." -- Paul
...Paul <cleggp@rebecca.its.rpi.edu> wrote:
>Holy Cow! If you're right, Tom, then there is a MAJOR gap in the rules I
>have. Nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE does it say that any particular actions
>taken by vampires have to come at any particular point in the Minion Phase.
>Nor is this ever even hinted at in any of the examples or other parts of
>the booklet...
Section 12.3.1 of both rulebooks, under "Hunt":
"A ready vampire that begins the minion phase with no blood *must* hunt
as its action, and this action must be taken before any other minion
actions are taken."
This is the only rule I've seen which dictates the order in which actions
are taken. Hm. And maybe it doesn't eliminate hunts after non-hunting
actions after all. Good thing it's on the list ;)
Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for
aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
In article <33gcqa$hog@usenet.rpi.edu>,
...Paul <cleggp@rebecca.its.rpi.edu> wrote:
>In article <33g8it$23b@perv.hal.com>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote:>>Edward S Shaw <storm@tamsun.tamu.edu> wrote:>>>This brings up a question that I've had: it was my understanding that all
>>>hunting had to be done at the beginning of the minion phase.>>
>>Eep! Good point, I'd missed that. I'll try to confirm that it's impossible
>>to hunt once a non-hunting action has been taken by any vampire.>
>Holy Cow! If you're right, Tom, then there is a MAJOR gap in the rules I
>have. Nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE does it say that any particular actions
>taken by vampires have to come at any particular point in the Minion Phase.
That's because the 1st person's understanding is in fact not part of
the rules! There is a slight limitation that would give this person
that impression, but he's not quite right.
Section 12.3.1, under the subheading "Hunt", says that a READY vampire
that BEGINS the minion phase with no blood must hunt as its action,
and this action must be taken before any other minion action. This is
the only limitation.
A vampire who was either not ready (eg. was in torpor and got rescued)
or not at 0 blood (eg. was at 5 out of 7 blood points) at the
BEGINNING of the minion phase has no limits on their action by the
rules I've got, and can chose to hunt whenever in the minion phase
they want to.
A Vampire coming out of torpor can't be covered by this rule, because
it's action *can't* come before the rescue-from-torpor action of
another vampire.
--
Doug DeJulio
ddj@zardoz.elbows.org
In article <33gi3n$5ib@perv.hal.com>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote:
>...Paul <cleggp@rebecca.its.rpi.edu> wrote:>>Holy Cow! If you're right, Tom, then there is a MAJOR gap in the rules I
>>have. Nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE does it say that any particular actions
>>taken by vampires have to come at any particular point in the Minion Phase.
>>Nor is this ever even hinted at in any of the examples or other parts of
>>the booklet...>
>Section 12.3.1 of both rulebooks, under "Hunt":
>
>"A ready vampire that begins the minion phase with no blood *must* hunt
>as its action, and this action must be taken before any other minion
>actions are taken."
>
>This is the only rule I've seen which dictates the order in which actions
>are taken. Hm. And maybe it doesn't eliminate hunts after non-hunting
>actions after all. Good thing it's on the list ;)
Yep. Shucks, missed that one but good. Of course, if you want to be a
stickler, you could read into this that only one 0-blood vampyre can hunt
a turn. Once one of the 0-blood vampyres have hunted, the second half
of that sentence is invalid for the next! :)
Okay, so that still brings up the question: A 0-blood vampyre rescued from
torpor: Does it have to hunt that turn? Can it do anything that turn? Is
it tapped? (My guesses: Yes, Yes-hunt, and yes-because it hunted).
...Paul
--
+ + + + + + + + + + +
Paul, cleggp@aol.com. yIlImQo'qu' Don't Panic! alt.galactic-guide yIlaD
"When doth life leave the weary?
'Tis not death I fear, but the end of living." -- Paul
In article <33gi3n$5ib@perv.hal.COM>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote:
>...Paul <cleggp@rebecca.its.rpi.edu> wrote:
>Section 12.3.1 of both rulebooks, under "Hunt":
>
>"A ready vampire that begins the minion phase with no blood *must* hunt
>as its action, and this action must be taken before any other minion
>actions are taken."
>
A vampire in torpor isn't a "ready" vampire at the beginning of the
minion phase. When he's pulled out, THEN he's ready. So he doesn't
have the hunt restriction put on him. When he's a ready vampire next
turn he'll have to hunt under the restriction. He's free to take any
action, although, he'll probably hunt anyway...
| If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--*
| PC game, call the announce line at | jsciv@vt.edu
| ** csipga@discus.ise.vt.edu ** |
+-------------------------------------+----------------------------------
"Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK
In article <33ih6p$jt9@solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
Joe Cochran <jsciv@megavolt.cc.vt.edu> wrote:
>In article <33gi3n$5ib@perv.hal.COM>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote:>>...Paul <cleggp@rebecca.its.rpi.edu> wrote:
>>Section 12.3.1 of both rulebooks, under "Hunt":
>>
>>"A ready vampire that begins the minion phase with no blood *must* hunt
>>as its action, and this action must be taken before any other minion
>>actions are taken."
>>>
>A vampire in torpor isn't a "ready" vampire at the beginning of the
>minion phase. When he's pulled out, THEN he's ready. So he doesn't
>have the hunt restriction put on him. When he's a ready vampire next
>turn he'll have to hunt under the restriction. He's free to take any
>action, although, he'll probably hunt anyway...
That's not what it says though; this interpretation would be correct if
it said "A vampyre that begins the minion phase ready and with no blood..."
But it doesn't. The only stipulation at the beginning of the phase is
"with no blood". The adjective "ready" is not being applied to the clause
of "that begins the minion phase with no blood"...
...Paul
--
+ + + + + + + + + + +
Paul, cleggp@aol.com. yIlImQo'qu' Don't Panic! alt.galactic-guide yIlaD
"When doth life leave the weary?
'Tis not death I fear, but the end of living." -- Paul
>>Section 12.3.1 of both rulebooks, under "Hunt":
>>"A ready vampire that begins the minion phase with no blood *must* hunt
>>as its action, and this action must be taken before any other minion
>>actions are taken."
>>>A vampire in torpor isn't a "ready" vampire at the beginning of the
>minion phase. When he's pulled out, THEN he's ready. So he doesn't
>have the hunt restriction put on him. When he's a ready vampire next
>turn he'll have to hunt under the restriction. He's free to take any
>action, although, he'll probably hunt anyway...
This is going to sound pretty rude, but the rules and cards to
Jyhad are written poorly enough that a strict interpretation like
this isn't going to work. The intent (thinking of the RPG) seems to be
that an untapped vampire with no blood must hunt as soon as possible.
I agree that if you hunt and are blocked and untapped, you have
satisfied this rule and may do some other action, but "common sense"
says the hungry vampire will keep trying.
There's an action card (can't recall the name) that gives a vampire
2 or 3 blood. You should be able to use this when at 0 blood, but can't
by a strict reading. The card should have either been an action modifier
to hunt, hunt should have been defined so that "Hunt at +1" made sense
for an action, or the hunt rules should be changed to say an untapped
vampire with no blood must take an action which would give it blood
before any non-bloodless vampires act.
I expect, even hope, to see rewritten Jyhad rules before many
months pass.
My examples: In the corrected rules, only section 6 (tapping cards)
mentions you need to be untapped to block. It isn't mentioned under
"who can block whom." Needing to be untapped to play a reaction card
isn't in the section on reaction cards -- it's mentioned in the section
"things you can do when it's not your turn."
A Wolf Companion (a retainer) says it does 1 damage during the
strike phase of each round of combat. Since retainers do not fight,
they don't use range or first strike or any of that stuff. You could
argue (based on the exact wording of the card and the rules) that a
Wolf Companion would still do 1 point of damage against a first-striking
gun at long range (it's the strike phase and you take one damage --
what could be simpler?)
--
storm@tamsun.tamu.edu (Edward S Shaw) writes:
>In article <33dlmo$k4a@perv.hal.com>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote:>>I don't see why it wouldn't be able to, assuming that it comes out of
>>torpor untapped. In fact, the typical method of coming out of torpor (at
>>least in the games I've played) is for a vampire to be in torpor with no
>>blood on it, and is then rescued by another vampire... the rescued vampire
>>is now in play and untapped with no blood on it, so has to hunt.
>>If the vampire got itself out of torpor (and thus tapped), then it wouldn't
>>be able to do anything, no.
>>>This brings up a question that I've had: it was my understanding that all
>hunting had to be done at the beginning of the minion phase. So, my question
>is that when an untapped vampire is brought out of torpor by another vampire
>it's already missed the beginning of the minion phase so can it still hunt?
I don't think so, else why make a point of saying tha all hunts must take
pace before any other actions? At least I think I read that somewhere, but
I can't find it right now...
Here's something from the FAQ that supports my view though:
Q: How do I get my vampire out of torpor?
A: If your vampire went into torpor with counters still on it (by
paralyzation or by aggravated damage), then as an action it can rescue
itself at the cost of two blood. If it doesn't have enough, then it can
be rescued by another minion. The rescuing minion taps to vlslt the
vampire in torpor and must spend two of its blood, or both the rescuing
vampire and the rescued vampire spend one blood each. The vampire so
rescued is then active again, but if it has no blood, it must hunt the next
turn.
note the NEXT TURN part....
--
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cleggp@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (...Paul) writes:
>In article <33fnn9$b4e@tamsun.tamu.edu>,
>Edward S Shaw <storm@tamsun.tamu.edu> wrote:>>In article <33dlmo$k4a@perv.hal.com>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote:>>>I don't see why it wouldn't be able to, assuming that it comes out of
>>>torpor untapped. In fact, the typical method of coming out of torpor (at
>>>least in the games I've played) is for a vampire to be in torpor with no
>>>blood on it, and is then rescued by another vampire... the rescued vampire
>>>is now in play and untapped with no blood on it, so has to hunt.
>>>If the vampire got itself out of torpor (and thus tapped), then it wouldn't
>>>be able to do anything, no.
>>>>>
>>This brings up a question that I've had: it was my understanding that all
>>hunting had to be done at the beginning of the minion phase. So, my question>There is not, to my knowledge, any kind of priority to any actions a vampyre
>takes in the Minion Action Phase. However, a vampyre with no blood on it
>must hunt during that phase. This doesn't, however, preclude you from
>using your other vampyres to do bleeds, start votes, acquire equipment,
>etc. before you hunt with the vampyre required to do so. It may also be
>advantageous to do so; the other actions may get your opponent to use their
>intercept cards/abilities on them instead of on the hapless vampyre...
There is a line in section 12.3.1 "this action must be taken before ANY
OTHER ...ACTIONS ARE TAKEN." Read the graph under Hunt.
>If the vampyre was brought out of torpor by another vampyre, it is not
>tapped (or rather, it does not become tapped; if was tapped in torpor, it
>will be tapped when it's brought out).
Note that vampires in torpor do untap during your untapo phase (FAQ.jyhad
on Marvin)
--
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ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov (Roberto Ullfig) writes:
>In article <33foql$2gv@usenet.rpi.edu>, cleggp@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (...Paul) writes:>|> by law, to hunt for its action. You cannot end your minion action phase
>|> without having an untapped vampyre, with no blood on it, hunt.
>|> >However, the rules (inc FAQ) do not say this anywhere.
The rules say a vampire that begins the minion phase with no blood MUST
hunt. It also says that all hunts must happen before any other actions.
What else do you want?
--
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Subject: JYHAD FAQ
Date: 24 Aug 1994 18:25:12 GMT
This FAQ came with the rules that duelist's convocation members
received in the mail, and was distributed at GenCon. There have already
been corrections, but this will have to do until then.
Q: Can I use the + 1 stealth on an action card to increase a minion's stealth
on another action?
A: No, because you'd need an action modifier card. The action card merely
indicates that that particular action has an intrinsic stealth bonus.
Q: What happens when I run out of cards?
A: (Sec. 11.4, "Organizing the Cards," and Sec. 18.2, "Withdrawing from the
Game") Play continues when you use the last of vour library cards. The
only time you are out of the game is when you are reduced to zero pool or
when you successfully withdraw from the game.
Q: What happens when my vampire has no blood counters on it?
A: Your vampire only goes into torpor when it is reduced below zero blood. If
it is reduced to zero, then the next turn it must hunt as an action; a vampire
can take no other action unless it has at least one blood.
Q: What happens when a vote ties?
A: (Sec. 17.1, "Voting") A tied vote is a failed vote.
Q: When can a vote be called, and can I make up the referendum? (Sec.
17.1,"Voting")
A: Calling a vote is an action that must be taken by one of your minions. The
referendum for the vote is described on the vote card; you cannot
arbitrarily make one up. Some vote cards require a Prince or a Justicar to
use them. The only other vote in Jyhad besides ones written out on cards
is for a bloodhunt (Sec.16.3, "Diablerie") .
Q: Does the vote on the vote card count towards my referendum?
A: Yes, when you call a vote, the card itself is worth one vote.
Q: If I throw in another card from my hand for one vote, do I replace it right
away?
A: (Sec. 17.1, "Voting") No. No cards get replaced until the vote is
concluded.
Q: My vote card says Prince or Justicar. Now what?
A: The only minion that can call that particular vote would be a vampire with
the appropriate title. Any ready vampire can call a vote that states "All
Kindred."
Q: Can my ally call a vote?
A: Any card that states "Kindred" excludes allies. An ally is a minion but is
not Kindred. Allies are mortal.
Q: Okay, I've got a Justicar, but he's tapped. Do I still get his votes?
A: (Sec. 11.1, "The Playing Area") He sure does, because tapped minions are
considered "ready."
Q: What about my Primogen in torpor? Can't she vote?
A: (Sec. 11.1, "The Playing Area" and Sec. 17.1, "Voting") Vampires in
torpor are not considered "ready" and cannot lend their votes.
Q: How do I get my vampire out of torpor?
A: If your vampire went into torpor with counters still on it (by
paralyzation or by aggravated damage), then as an action it can rescue
itself at the cost of two blood. If it doesn't have enough, then it can
be rescued by another minion. The rescuing minion taps to vlslt the
vampire in torpor and must spend two of its blood, or both the rescuing
vampire and the rescued vampire spend one blood each. The vampire so
rescued is then active again, but if it has no blood, it must hunt the next
turn.
Q: My vampire went into torpor tapped, but he had enough blood to get himself
out. How can he get himself out if he's tapped?
A: Even vampires in torpor untap during the untap phase.
Q: If someone has a vampire in torpor with Haven Uncovered played on it, can I
diablerize it or attack it with + 1 stealth?
A: Once a vampire is in torpor, it is no longer "ready," so it cannot be the
object of the Haven Uncovered. Once the vampire escapes torpor, however,
it is subject to the effects of the card again.
Q: What happens to my equipment, etc., when my vampire goes into torpor?
A: The equipment and all modifiers stay on a vampire when it goes into
torpor.
Q: What is the combat sequence?
A: (Sec. 15 "Combat") The combat sequence starts with the determination of
range. There are two ranges, close and long. Range starts off close and
can only be changed by maneuvering. Any number of maneuvers may occur
until range has been determined; however, each maneuver after the first
must be played only to cancel another maneuver. I cannot just throw out
five maneuvers to allow myself to draw five new cards, for instance. I can
play a maneuver to make combat long range, my opponent can then play a
maneuver to cancel mine and make the combat short, and I can then play
one to cancel hers and make it long again�we play maneuvers back and forth
until one of us stops.
The second phase is to choose strike. A strike can be by hand, by weapon,
or by a combat card specifically stating "strike." After each minion has
declared its strike damage is determined and combat ends unless one or the
other minion "presses," which begins the whole round again.
Q: I played "strike: combat ends" and my opponent played "strike: dodge." It
says that dodge negates opponent's strike. What happens?
A: (Sec. 15.3, "Special Combat Effects") Well, "combat ends" takes place
before any other strike can take effect. Combat ends beats any other card
out there.
Q: What does "press to end" mean?
A: Press to end allows you to counteract your opponent's press to continue
combat, but does not allow you to press to continue combat. Presses can
continue to be played until the final press played determines the outcome.
Q: If my vampire has a superior Discipline, can I have it use both the bold
type and the normal type on my minion card?
A: No. The superior Discipline gives you a choice between the two options.
Q: How do additional strikes work?
A: An additional strike allows the minion to strike two or more times in a
single round. If the other minion does not have additional strikes, it
cannot do damage back during strikes after the first. Range is not changed
in the additional strikes.
Q: What exactly does "once per combat" mean?
A: Once per combat means once during the entire confrontation, including any
additional rounds due to presses that may prolong the combat. If you
get one maneuver per combat, and you maneuver in the first round, you've
used your maneuvers from that card and must find another card source if you
want to maneuver again.
Q: When can I play a reaction card?
A: A reaction card can only be played in response to the actions of another
Methuselah's minion.
Q: Whom do you bleed? And if I have a card with the D) symbol, whom then? And
wasn't bleeding a direct action anyway?
A: Usually the only one you bleed is your prey. That action is direct, that
is, it can only be blocked by your prey. If, however, a card allows you to
bleed as a direct action, then you can attempt to bleed any Methuselah you
like. It's still a direct action, so only the target of the bleed can
attempt to block.
Q: At the top of my action card it says + 1 stealth in bold typeface. Do I
have to have a superior Discipline to use this card?
A: The + 1 stealth covers both aspects of the card, so whichever level
discipline you have, and whichever one you choose, the action is still at +
1 stealth.
Q: I have a unique location master card, and someone else just played one.
How does this work?
A: (Sec. 8, "Contested Cards") Just like contested vampires�they go face
down and each owner loses one blood each untap until he yields his card, or
until his card is the only one remaining, at which point it is put into
play on his side. If someone wants to burn a contested unique location as
a direct action, she is automatically successful, as it is not controlled;
all cards contesting that location are burned.
Q: How does the sequence of play run?
A: (See What You Can Do on Your Turn, Sec. 12.) There are five phases to
each Methuselah's turn. At the beginning of each turn you must untap any
cards that are tapped, including any vampires in torpor. You can then play
one master card, and any effects generated by master cards also occur. The
minion phase is next, and any untapped minions may take an appropriate
action. After the minion phase is over, the four transfers allotted for
the influence phase may be spent. Once all or any influence is used, the
last action a Methuselah may take is to discard one card from her hand
and replace it with one from the library.
Q: Are allies linked to one vampire? How are they different from retainers?
A: Allies are not linked to vampires as retainers are, allies are simply
called to the service of a Methuselah by a vampire capable of taking an
action. Both allies and retainers are mortal, but retainers are not
considered minions. In fact, retainers are the equivalent of vampire
modifier cards that can be destroyed by ranged damage only. Allies,
however, can take actions of their own accord.
Q: In the section "Winning the Game," (Sec. 18.1) it says that the predator
gets the victory point and the blood. What if I bleed someone as a
direct action who is not my prey and oust him or her? Shouldn't I get the
points and blood? This must be an error.
A: Actually, it's not an error. The predator will still get the point and
the blood; this encourages everyone to concentrate on his or her prey.
Q: How do I replenish my pool? Can't I take blood off my ready vampires?
A: Currently the only time you can remove blood from a ready vampire and
place it in your pool is when it has a Blood Doll or a Minion Tap card
played on it. Otherwise the Methuselah cannot feed off of his or her
minions. There are cards that allow pool increases, and ousting your
prey pays off as well.
Q: I want to play a reaction card. Can any minion play a reaction card? What
if she's tapped?
A: A tapped minion cannot react (bring a reaction card into play). The
untapped minion that plays a reaction, however, does not get tapped.
Q: I have a "strike: steal weapon" card. Can I take my prey's Hawg? It's got
that little gun on it, doesn't it?
A: Well, sure it's got the picture, but for the card to qualify as a weapton
it must also state "weapon" in the card text. The symbol stands for
"equipment" only.
Q: I have a vampire with Blood Doll played on her, but the vampire is
contested. Can I still get blood from her?
A: No. The vampire is considered out of the influence of either Methuselah.
Q: When does my vampire heal itself with stolen blood? The example in the book
I got in my card pack is confusing.
A: The example in the rules prior to this Duelist Companion rules' release
refers to an early conception of the rules. The example is in error.
Stolen blood can immediately heal a vampire. This may prevent a vampire's
going into torpor on the strike phase during which it stole the blood, as
long as the vampire striking it does not do enough "first strike" damage to
send it into torpor. In that case, the vampire attempting to steal blood
is considered to have not even gotten the opportunity to steal blood
before being sent to torpor.
Q: My Gun says "3R" on it. What's the "R" mean?
A: It means that it delivers 3 points of damage either at long range or short
range. Some cards with the "R" on it (Thrown Sewer I.id, for example) can
only be effective from long range, but "R" itself does not mean that it
must be at long range to work.
Jyhad Card Errors
-----------------
The following card errors are noted because they may create some confusion
with the rules:
Disputed Territory: This political card has no political symbol on it.
The Fourth Tradition: The Accounting: This card should be an action card,
not a master card, but it has the gray master card background.
Psychic Projection is titled "Physchic Projection" on one card on the
sheet.
The Spawning Pool: This is a master card and as such should have a gray
background, but instead it has the minion card red background.
Ventrue Justicar is spelled "Venture Justicar" and becomes Justicar of the
Tremere in the card text.
--
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cleggp@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (...Paul) writes:
>In article <33g8it$23b@perv.hal.com>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote:>>Edward S Shaw <storm@tamsun.tamu.edu> wrote:>>>This brings up a question that I've had: it was my understanding that all
>>>hunting had to be done at the beginning of the minion phase. So, my question
>>>is that when an untapped vampire is brought out of torpor by another vampire
>>>it's already missed the beginning of the minion phase so can it still hunt?>>
>>Eep! Good point, I'd missed that. I'll try to confirm that it's impossible
>>to hunt once a non-hunting action has been taken by any vampire.>Holy Cow! If you're right, Tom, then there is a MAJOR gap in the rules I
>have. Nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE does it say that any particular actions
>taken by vampires have to come at any particular point in the Minion Phase.
>Nor is this ever even hinted at in any of the examples or other parts of
>the booklet...
No Paul, read section 12.3.1 under hunt. it is quite clear, quite
explicite, and not really open to interpretation. You cannot hunt after a
non-hunting action has taken place.
--
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ddj@zardoz.elbows.org (Doug DeJulio) writes:
>In article <33gcqa$hog@usenet.rpi.edu>,
>...Paul <cleggp@rebecca.its.rpi.edu> wrote:>>In article <33g8it$23b@perv.hal.com>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote:>>>Edward S Shaw <storm@tamsun.tamu.edu> wrote:>>>>This brings up a question that I've had: it was my understanding that all
>>>>hunting had to be done at the beginning of the minion phase.>>>
>>>Eep! Good point, I'd missed that. I'll try to confirm that it's impossible
>>>to hunt once a non-hunting action has been taken by any vampire.>>
>>Holy Cow! If you're right, Tom, then there is a MAJOR gap in the rules I
>>have. Nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE does it say that any particular actions
>>taken by vampires have to come at any particular point in the Minion Phase.>That's because the 1st person's understanding is in fact not part of
>the rules! There is a slight limitation that would give this person
>that impression, but he's not quite right.>Section 12.3.1, under the subheading "Hunt", says that a READY vampire
>that BEGINS the minion phase with no blood must hunt as its action,
>and this action must be taken before any other minion action. This is
>the only limitation.>A vampire who was either not ready (eg. was in torpor and got rescued)
>or not at 0 blood (eg. was at 5 out of 7 blood points) at the
>BEGINNING of the minion phase has no limits on their action by the
>rules I've got, and can chose to hunt whenever in the minion phase
>they want to.
In article <kremeCv4HC9.KF8@netcom.com>,
Cerebus The Aardvark <kreme@netcom.com> wrote:
>ddj@zardoz.elbows.org (Doug DeJulio) writes:>>A vampire who was either not ready (eg. was in torpor and got rescued)
>>or not at 0 blood (eg. was at 5 out of 7 blood points) at the
>>BEGINNING of the minion phase has no limits on their action by the
>>rules I've got, and can chose to hunt whenever in the minion phase
>>they want to.>
>From the Faq:
>Q: How do I get my vampire out of torpor?
>A: If your vampire went into torpor with counters still on it (by
>paralyzation or by aggravated damage), then as an action it can rescue
>itself at the cost of two blood. If it doesn't have enough, then it can
>be rescued by another minion. The rescuing minion taps to vlslt the
>vampire in torpor and must spend two of its blood, or both the rescuing
>vampire and the rescued vampire spend one blood each. The vampire so
>rescued is then active again, but if it has no blood, it must hunt the next
>turn.
>
>Note the fact that it says "Next Turn."
So, you're agreeing with me.
Dracula is in torpor with no blood. Vlad rescues him.
This turn, there's no restriction on what Dracula can do. If Dracula
still has no blood next turn, he has to hunt as his action.
This is what we both have said. It's not 100% clear that that's the
*intent* of the rules, but that's what's in there right now.
>While there is a minor semantic hole in the hunt section, I think the
>implication is quite clear that all hunts must happen before any other
>actions.
And I don't agree here. I think it's clear that all *forced* hunts
must happen before other actions, but hunts taken by free will, such
as a vampire going from 4/6 to 5/6, can happen at any time.
--
Doug DeJulio
ddj@zardoz.elbows.org
In article <33ih6p$jt9@solaris.cc.vt.edu> jsciv@megavolt.cc.vt.edu (Joe Cochran) writes:
>In article <33gi3n$5ib@perv.hal.COM>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote:>>...Paul <cleggp@rebecca.its.rpi.edu> wrote:
>>Section 12.3.1 of both rulebooks, under "Hunt":
>>
>>"A ready vampire that begins the minion phase with no blood *must* hunt
>>as its action, and this action must be taken before any other minion
>>actions are taken."
>>>
>A vampire in torpor isn't a "ready" vampire at the beginning of the
>minion phase. When he's pulled out, THEN he's ready. So he doesn't
>have the hunt restriction put on him. When he's a ready vampire next
>turn he'll have to hunt under the restriction. He's free to take any
>action, although, he'll probably hunt anyway...
>
Nonsence, as soon as the vampire comes out of Torpor he is considered
ready. Since he is ready AND he began the minion phase with no blood
he must hunt... It doesn't mean that he must be ready at the beginning
of the minion phase, simply that if he is ready (at any time during the
minion phase)and he began with no blood he must hunt as his action.
>
--
WANTED: One (1) good signature file.
Top Dollars Paid! Ross Bellinger
Bellinge@Emr1.emr.ca
Combat is getting me a little down, just when I though I had it all figured
out everything changed and now I'm as confused as I was before I'd started
playing...
Some cards specify they are only useable once per combat, does this imply
that even if a PRESS is used to start a new combat round the card may not
be used again?
ie: My shotgun, which does 3 damage is useable once per combat. So if
I use it in the first round, I am not allowed to use it againg in
rounds which follow due to a press?
The examples in section 15 of the rulebook get me confused on this
subject... I always figured I just couldn't use the weapon again for another
strike this combat round, but now it might be I acn't use them again period
until after all combat ends!
Also, does range reset after a press? Say in the first round Range has
been manovered to long range. After a press does range start at close range
again, or is it still long? This would give an incredible advantage to a
player with a ranged weapon and the hawg, if he can negotiate to long range
in the first round and keep pressing and the other vampire has no ranged
weapons or manovers, he can just pick him off to death.. Ouch!
Tom, any answers????
--
WANTED: One (1) good signature file.
Top Dollars Paid! Ross Bellinger
Bellinge@Emr1.emr.ca
Questions concerning a card called trap.. Here is what the card says
verbatim...
Combat automatically has a press
only useable to continue combat
each round. This continues until
3 rounds of combat pass with no
cards being played by any
methuselah. Only usable before
range is determined on the first
round.
Now does this mean that combat is being forced for 3 rounds and no
cards can be played by any methuselah? Or does it mean that there is
a press to continue combat automatically each round until at least
3 rounds go by in which no methuselah chose to play a card during the
combat?
The key here is that one interpretation of the card states that
NO more cards may be played, and the other is that combat continues
longer IF cards are played...
--
WANTED: One (1) good signature file.
Top Dollars Paid! Ross Bellinger
Bellinge@Emr1.emr.ca
In article <1994Aug27.210552.24045@emr1.emr.ca>,
Ross Bellinger <bellinge@emr1.emr.ca> wrote:
> Questions concerning a card called trap.. Here is what the card says
>verbatim...
>
> Combat automatically has a press
>only useable to continue combat
>each round. This continues until
>3 rounds of combat pass with no
>cards being played by any
>methuselah. Only usable before
>range is determined on the first
>round.
>
> Now does this mean that combat is being forced for 3 rounds and no
>cards can be played by any methuselah? Or does it mean that there is
>a press to continue combat automatically each round until at least
>3 rounds go by in which no methuselah chose to play a card during the
>combat?
>
> The key here is that one interpretation of the card states that
>NO more cards may be played, and the other is that combat continues
>longer IF cards are played...
>
>
I'm pretty sure it's #2, as it makes more sense... being trapped
wouldn't prevent you from blasting thaumaturgic rituals, throwing
heavy objects, etc... BUT it does prevent you and your opponent from
escaping. I think of it sort of like a 'Steel Cage' match a la Beyond
Thunderdome, and if played right it can be NASTY! Suddenly your opponent
who blocked you thinking combat would at best only continue a round or
two and you wasted that Conditioning you played gets hosed as you cackle
evilly and play a trap, showing that you were after his vampire all the
time and he just walked into it!
In a game the other night I did just this, sending Helena Casmir
(Cap. 9 Ventrue Primogen) at him with a Conditioning Card. Not surprisingly
he blocked with Roxanne (Cap 9 Malk Primogen)... neither had equipment,
and Helena was down one blood, with Roxy at full.
ROUND 1: I play trap. No maneuvers. I call my strike as 'Mighty Grapple'
and do 2 damage. He does 1. Helena: 7 Roxanne: 7. Combat presses
due to trap... I luck out and he appears to have NO usable combat
cards in his hand, which also means he can't play any cards so he
can replace them.
ROUND 2: I play Growing Fury, he biffs with hands again. 3 damage this time
versus his 1. Helena: 6, Roxanne: 4. Combat presses again.
ROUND 3: I play Lucky Blow (which I drew last round replacing Growing Fury),
he (big surprise) hits with hands. Helena: 5, Roxanne: 2
Combat presses AGAIN.
ROUND 4: I'm out of playable strike cards, but combat will continue for this
round and two more due to the trap. Biff. Helena: 4, Roxanne: 1
ROUND 5: Helena: 3 Roxanne: 0
ROUND 6: Helena: 2 Roxanne: TORPORED. Combat ends (and would've ended anyhow
as this was the third round without cards played.)
Suddenly, cards that let you press to end combat become much nicer, eh?
-- Clint, "Two vamps enter! One vamp leaves!"
In article <33gcqa$hog@usenet.rpi.edu>, ...Paul said something like:
> In article <33g8it$23b@perv.hal.com>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote:
> >Edward S Shaw <storm@tamsun.tamu.edu> wrote:
> >>This brings up a question that I've had: it was my understanding that all
> >>hunting had to be done at the beginning of the minion phase. So, my question
> >>is that when an untapped vampire is brought out of torpor by another vampire
> >>it's already missed the beginning of the minion phase so can it still hunt?
> >
> >Eep! Good point, I'd missed that. I'll try to confirm that it's impossible
> >to hunt once a non-hunting action has been taken by any vampire.> Holy Cow! If you're right, Tom, then there is a MAJOR gap in the rules I
> have. Nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE does it say that any particular actions
> taken by vampires have to come at any particular point in the Minion Phase.
> Nor is this ever even hinted at in any of the examples or other parts of
> the booklet...> ...Paul
Well, there *is* this thing mentioned in Sec. 12.3.1 (page 23 in my
booklet):
Hunt (no card required): [blah...blah...blah] A ready vampire
that begins the minion phase with no blood _must_ hunt as its
action, and this action must be taken before any other minion
actions are taken. This action is at +1 stealth.
Sounds pretty clear, if you ask me. A vampire rescued from torpor wasn't
ready at the beginning of the minion phase, and so doesn't have to hunt
this turn. However, the rules don't say that it can't do some other
action :)
--
Dougal Campbell | Check out the interQuest home page:
System Administrator | http://www.iquest.com/
dougal@iquest.com | interQuest: "We can hook you up!"
In article <kremeCv4Gw1.JKu@netcom.com>,
Cerebus The Aardvark <kreme@netcom.com> wrote:
>storm@tamsun.tamu.edu (Edward S Shaw) writes:>>This brings up a question that I've had: it was my understanding that all
>>hunting had to be done at the beginning of the minion phase. So, my question
[...]
>Here's something from the FAQ that supports my view though:
>
>Q: How do I get my vampire out of torpor?
>A: If your vampire went into torpor with counters still on it (by
>paralyzation or by aggravated damage), then as an action it can rescue
>itself at the cost of two blood. If it doesn't have enough, then it can
>be rescued by another minion. The rescuing minion taps to vlslt the
>vampire in torpor and must spend two of its blood, or both the rescuing
>vampire and the rescued vampire spend one blood each. The vampire so
>rescued is then active again, but if it has no blood, it must hunt the next
>turn.
>
>note the NEXT TURN part....
>
Yes, that's exactly how I'd been playing it. That when a vampire came
out of torpor untapped during the minion phase, that it had to wait until
next round to hunt. At least, until Tom ruled that they should hunt
right when they came out. The main thing that surprises me about your post
is that I hadn't noticed that the FAQ says that they have to wait until next
turn to hunt - isn't that the opposite of what Tom said? And, if so, which
is correct?
On a totally different note, has anyone noticed the cheezyness of the
chainsaw? I mean 3 damage once a combat for 2 blood is all well and good
but when you can get the same thing with a shotgun AND the chainsaw
is uncommon on my list with the shotgun is common
AND the shotgun is ranged damage AND you can play ammo cards on the
shotgun, I'm not terribly impressed.
Scott
storm@tamsun.tamu.edu
Edward S Shaw <storm@tamsun.tamu.edu> wrote:
>On a totally different note, has anyone noticed the cheezyness of the
>chainsaw? I mean 3 damage once a combat for 2 blood is all well and good
>but when you can get the same thing with a shotgun AND the chainsaw
>is uncommon on my list with the shotgun is common
>AND the shotgun is ranged damage AND you can play ammo cards on the
>shotgun, I'm not terribly impressed.
You can play cards like Undead Strength with the Chainsaw to increase
its damage, and those are also good for just hand damage, whereas ammo
cards are only useful with guns. Basically you're trading in the
ranged damage for some versatility with the damage-increasing cards.
Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for
aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Ross Bellinger <bellinge@emr1.emr.ca> wrote:
> Some cards specify they are only useable once per combat, does this imply
>that even if a PRESS is used to start a new combat round the card may not
>be used again?
Right.
> ie: My shotgun, which does 3 damage is useable once per combat. So if
> I use it in the first round, I am not allowed to use it againg in
> rounds which follow due to a press?
No, since it's the same combat.
> The examples in section 15 of the rulebook get me confused on this
>subject... I always figured I just couldn't use the weapon again for another
>strike this combat round, but now it might be I acn't use them again period
>until after all combat ends!
Most weapons say you can use them each strike. The shotgun is an exception
to that general design principle.
> Also, does range reset after a press?...
Yes. Every round always starts at close range, no matter which range
the previous round was at.
Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for
aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Ross Bellinger <bellinge@emr1.emr.ca> wrote:
> Questions concerning a card called trap.. Here is what the card says
>verbatim...
> Now does this mean that combat is being forced for 3 rounds and no
>cards can be played by any methuselah? Or does it mean that there is
>a press to continue combat automatically each round until at least
>3 rounds go by in which no methuselah chose to play a card during the
>combat?
It means the latter. If cards are played during rounds 1, 2, and 3, then
the combat will be going for 6 rounds, unless a vampire goes into torpor
before then, or someone uses a press to end combat.
Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for
aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Well, perhaps this is true from the perspective of just trying to win
the game. However, there's a lot to be said for *style*!
Play the chainsaw on a female vampire that already has the "hawg" card
on her. Then you have:
THE CHAINSAW-WIELDING VAMPIRE BIKER CHICK FROM **HELL**!!!!!
(now playing at a drive-in theatre near you. No one under 17 admitted
without parent.)
BRRRRRrrrrrrrrr..............! I gave myself goosebumps! :) :)
-bob martino
In article <33tk5a$aof@perv.hal.com>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote:
>Edward S Shaw <storm@tamsun.tamu.edu> wrote:>>On a totally different note, has anyone noticed the cheezyness of the
>>chainsaw? I mean 3 damage once a combat for 2 blood is all well and good
>>but when you can get the same thing with a shotgun AND the chainsaw
>>is uncommon on my list with the shotgun is common
>>AND the shotgun is ranged damage AND you can play ammo cards on the
>>shotgun, I'm not terribly impressed.>
>You can play cards like Undead Strength with the Chainsaw to increase
>its damage, and those are also good for just hand damage, whereas ammo
>cards are only useful with guns. Basically you're trading in the
>ranged damage for some versatility with the damage-increasing cards.
>
Woah! This would make me a very happy camper, however, my copy of chainsaw
does not say _melee_ weapon, it only says "weapon." It was my understanding
that a weapon had to say _melee_ weapon (like Rowan Ring or the broadsword,
for example) for it to be usable with cards like Undead Strength, Mighty
Grapple, and my fav. - Growing Fury... Am I wrong? If so, this would
indeed balance the chainsaw.
Also, there's a really annoying Tremere (I don't have her, of course :) )
who can move a blood from her to any Tremere in the game. Does this
include uncontrolled Tremere? That's how we've been playing it, but
it's giving the owner a lot of blood every time he gets her out (he moves
a blood to an uncontrolled Tremere and then uses 2 transfers to move it
to himself) so I just wanted to confirm it was correct...
Scott "Member of the Tom Wylie deserves a raise club" Shaw
storm@tamsun.tamu.edu
Ross Bellinger (bellinge@emr1.emr.ca) wrote:
: >>Section 12.3.1 of both rulebooks, under "Hunt":
: >>
: >>"A ready vampire that begins the minion phase with no blood *must* hunt
: >>as its action, and this action must be taken before any other minion
: >>actions are taken."
: >>
: >
: >A vampire in torpor isn't a "ready" vampire at the beginning of the
: >minion phase. When he's pulled out, THEN he's ready. So he doesn't
: >have the hunt restriction put on him. When he's a ready vampire next
: >turn he'll have to hunt under the restriction. He's free to take any
: >action, although, he'll probably hunt anyway...
: >
: Nonsence, as soon as the vampire comes out of Torpor he is considered
: ready. Since he is ready AND he began the minion phase with no blood
: he must hunt... It doesn't mean that he must be ready at the beginning
: of the minion phase, simply that if he is ready (at any time during the
: minion phase)and he began with no blood he must hunt as his action.
: >
I think that this guy is right. Not only does it make sense, but
it is most likely what the designers intended (like the RPG). I
don't think the "have to hunt before any other actions" really
matters, does it? As soon as he comes out of torpor, he has to
hunt.
--------------
Peter Mazarakos
pmazarak@eecs.uic.edu
In article <33v95m$q82@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
Bob Martino <bmartino@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>Well, perhaps this is true from the perspective of just trying to win
>the game. However, there's a lot to be said for *style*!
>
>Play the chainsaw on a female vampire that already has the "hawg" card
>on her. Then you have:
> THE CHAINSAW-WIELDING VAMPIRE BIKER CHICK FROM **HELL**!!!!!
> (now playing at a drive-in theatre near you. No one under 17 admitted
> without parent.)
>
>BRRRRRrrrrrrrrr..............! I gave myself goosebumps! :) :)
>
>-bob martino
For maximum cheese/exploitation factor, equip Tura Vaughn with the above
cards. Sigh. I noticed that the various gun/weapon cards don't have a
stacking limitation, so arm her with a stake and several firearms, and throw
in dragonbreath rounds for good measure.
My favorite abuse is to take a 4-point vampire and stack as many
skill/discipline cards on her as possible. Who says an underdog can't
come out on top?
GrimJim