Mind Rape

Current Errata (superior): "(D) put this card on a younger vampire and tap that vampire. The vampire with this card does not untap as normal during his controller's untap phase..." Can it be played on a tapped vampire? The phrase "and tap that vampire" makes it seem like you couldn't. Sorrow --- I don't want to be alone | I hurt, therefore I am anymore |-------------------------------- I don't want to be anyone | "What are you looking at...? anymore | you never seen anyone try to I don't need a reason to kill myself | commit suicide before?" - Anon ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

cbo...@apdi.net wrote: > Current Errata (superior): > "(D) put this card on a younger vampire and tap that > vampire. The vampire with this card does not untap as > normal during his controller's untap phase..." > > Can it be played on a tapped vampire? The phrase > "and tap that vampire" makes it seem like you couldn't. Yes. "on a younger vampire" allows the vampire to be tapped or torporous (or both or neither), so long as he is younger. Similarly, you can play Letter from Vienna even if some ready Tremere are already tapped. Contrast Mind Numb: "put this card on any untapped vampire. Tap that vampire" -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <7520sd$4u$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, cbo...@apdi.net wrote: > Current Errata (superior): > "(D) put this card on a younger vampire and tap that > vampire. The vampire with this card does not untap as > normal during his controller's untap phase..." > > Can it be played on a tapped vampire? The phrase > "and tap that vampire" makes it seem like you couldn't. Well, as usual, IANALSJ, but...I believe that in general, if part of the effect of a card is already in effect, but is not a playing cost or some such, it doesn't matter. For example, Toreador Grand Ball says to tap the second Toreador, but you are allowed to choose an already tapped Toreador (including one that has been selected for another Grand Ball...) anyway. Hmm...I didn't phrase all of this very well. But I think that since the tapping is an additional effect, not a requirement of this card, it could be played on a tapped vampire. Unlike if it said "(D) put this card on a younger vampire and tap one of your vampires which is older than the vampire this card is played on..." In that case, you probably *would* have to tap the vampire. But that's just me running off at the mouth again... Xian "they look at you funny when you attack things like a hungry mountain lion on crack" --greensea [ quoted text not captured ]

> > Can it be played on a tapped vampire? The phrase > > "and tap that vampire" makes it seem like you couldn't. > Yes. "on a younger vampire" allows the vampire to be > tapped or torporous (or both or neither), so long as > he is younger. Yes, but the "AND" as part of the phrase means that to meet the requirement, you have to do 1 *AND* 2, not just 1 *OR* 2 which would be the case if you didn't meet the second requirement. > Similarly, you can play Letter from Vienna even if some > ready Tremere are already tapped. True, but "Letter from Vienna" targets a group and not just one. > Contrast Mind Numb: "put this card on any untapped vampire. > Tap that vampire" Granted, they do almost the same thing but Mind Numb not only spells it out much more clearly but also has a different (end) effect. *shrug* Your word is obviously law, but I just think that the presence of the word *AND* in the phrase means that you have to meet both requirements; that you have to be able to do both functions. If one doesn't resolve true, the entire phrase is false. Sorrow --- I don't want to be alone | I hurt, therefore I am anymore |-------------------------------- I don't want to be anyone | "What are you looking at...? anymore | you never seen anyone try to I don't need a reason to kill myself | commit suicide before?" - Anon ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- [ quoted text not captured ]

> Your word is obviously law, but I just think that the presence > of the word *AND* in the phrase means that you have to meet > both requirements; that you have to be able to do both functions. > If one doesn't resolve true, the entire phrase is false. > > Sorrow While I agree that many of his rulings don't make sense or aren't in the best interest of the game, I feel that I do need to bring up a point. There is existing errata that states that you _can_ tap an already tapped vampire, barring specific card text. Personally, I tend to agree...but since his re-wording of the card (and further interpretation of it) is consistent with existing errata, technically he is correct. I'd be happier if you could use Mind Rape to take control of the vampire during your untap or master phase so you could use it for Golconda or other cards... *shrug* But if you want to play in tournaments that use card text (or at least reasonably close to it) you'll have to play in the Michigan Jyhad League (insert obvious plug here) sponsored tournaments. Noal -- "DISCUSSION, n. A method of confirming others in their errors." -Ambrose Bierce. [ quoted text not captured ]

cbo...@apdi.net wrote: > > > Can it be played on a tapped vampire? The phrase > > > "and tap that vampire" makes it seem like you couldn't. > > Yes. "on a younger vampire" allows the vampire to be > > tapped or torporous (or both or neither), so long as > > he is younger. > > Yes, but the "AND" as part of the phrase means that to > meet the requirement, you have to do 1 *AND* 2, not just > 1 *OR* 2 which would be the case if you didn't meet the > second requirement. > [snip] > *shrug* > Your word is obviously law, but I just think that the presence > of the word *AND* in the phrase means that you have to meet > both requirements; that you have to be able to do both functions. > If one doesn't resolve true, the entire phrase is false. The word "and" means you do two things: Play the card on a younger vampire *and* tap that vampire. The only requirements are: dominate (card discipline symbol) and a suitable target. Since the card targets a "younger vampire", there must be a younger vampire (controlled) to be targetted. Since the card doesn't specify that the target must be untapped, the target doesn't have to be untapped. And, of course, tapping a tapped vampire has no effect. Similarly: * Tragic Love Affair can be played on a tapped Toreador. * a tapped vampire can play inferior deflection if he uses a Wakey. * Superior distraction can target a tapped vampire (uselessly). And so on. This has been covered before. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <753av9$2dh$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, cbo...@apdi.net writes >Yes, but the "AND" as part of the phrase means that to >meet the requirement, you have to do 1 *AND* 2, not just >1 *OR* 2 which would be the case if you didn't meet the >second requirement. "And", in this case, is being used in it's meaning of "And then do this." -- James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England) Vampire: Elder Kindred Network http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net