Need a ruling

This came up in a game I played. Minion A plays Illusions of the Kindred. Minion B wants to play a telepathic tracking at superior to continue the combat with minion A. What happens? Thanks in advance. Kerravon

>Minion A plays Illusions of the Kindred. Minion B wants to play a >telepathic tracking at superior to continue the combat with minion A. >What happens? Most likely there is no chance to play Telepathic Tracking. See the similar ruling for Psyche!: There is no room to play Psyche (superior) between the time Illusions of Kindred ends combat and when the new combat begins. So, when you play Illusions of Kindred, Psyche cannot be played. [LSJ 19971003] Halcyan 2

Halcyan 2 <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20011020031626...@mb-mv.aol.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Yes, though (AFAIK) there's a fine difference between those two cases: Psyche! is played _after_ combat ends, Telepathic Tracking is played _before_ it ends. The result is the same only because Illusions of the Kindred takes effect immediatelly (like most cards), so once played combat is ended and TT can no longer be played (and a new combat has started, so Psyche! can't be played either). In case you're wondering, TT can be played against S:CE effects because strike cards don't resolve immediatelly, like when playing Claws of the Dead after choosing a hand strike. ...OTOH, this would mean that TT can't be used against Elysium/Purchase Pact... LSJ? Flux

Flux wrote: > > Halcyan 2 <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message > news:20011020031626...@mb-mv.aol.com... > > >Minion A plays Illusions of the Kindred. Minion B wants to play a > > >telepathic tracking at superior to continue the combat with minion A. > > >What happens? > > > > Most likely there is no chance to play Telepathic Tracking. See the > similar > > ruling for Psyche!: > > > > There is no room to play Psyche (superior) between the time Illusions of > > Kindred ends combat and when the new combat begins. So, when you play > Illusions > > of Kindred, Psyche cannot be played. [LSJ 19971003] > > Yes, though (AFAIK) there's a fine difference between those two cases: > Psyche! is played _after_ combat ends, Telepathic Tracking is played > _before_ it ends. The result is the same only because Illusions of the > Kindred takes effect immediatelly (like most cards), so once played combat > is ended and TT can no longer be played (and a new combat has started, so > Psyche! can't be played either). Right. Telepathic Tracking can be played when combat is ending (e.g., by Illusions of the Kindred). The after combat effect (Illusionary combat) is then put on hold until the combat actually ends. > In case you're wondering, TT can be played against S:CE effects because > strike cards don't resolve immediatelly, like when playing Claws of the Dead > after choosing a hand strike. > > ...OTOH, this would mean that TT can't be used against Elysium/Purchase > Pact... LSJ? I have no idea why a ruling either way on TT/IotK would affect the playability of TT vs. Elysium. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3BD425A4...@white-wolf.com... [ quoted text not captured ] OK, I'll explain my reasoning: TT is playable 'as combat is about to end', ie, whenever some effect is about to end combat, before combat ends. This is different from Psyche! ('after combat ends'). Except for Strike and Action cards, all cards take effect as soon as played. So, when a minion plays Illusions from the Kindred, the card's effect would be immediate in ending combat and starting a new combat. The card's effect can't be interrupted mid-resolution, so Psyche! cannot be played. OTOH, as soon as the card is resolved (ie, immediately) combat ends. Then TT can't be played because combat has already ended and it has to be played 'as combat is about to end'. You can't play it before the IftK because combat is not about to end before that card is played. With Elysium/Purchase Pact something similar happens, since the 'combat ends' effect is immediate. There's no additional effect, so Psyche! can be played after the CE effect resolves. However, like in IftK, TT can't be played before the effect is used, and after it is used combat has already ended and it's too late. If you allow TT to be played after IftK, you're interrupting the card's resolution, to which you opposed recently in the BBA/Left for Dead thread. I have no problem with such interruption in the case of Catatonic Fear (or similar effects) because there's some time between the strike being played and the 'Combat Ends' effect, and TT could be played then ('as combat is about to end'). I see that the [RTR 20001020] rulings concerning 'end of combat' effects could contradict this line of thought, but the wording on TT is different from other 'end of combat' cards. Should I just consider it a 'cosmetic' difference, or is there some situation where it will really work differently? Flux (hoping that's clear enough)

>Right. Telepathic Tracking can be played when combat is ending (e.g., by >Illusions of the Kindred). The after combat effect (Illusionary combat) >is then put on hold until the combat actually ends. So if multiple Illusions of the Kindred are played along with multiple Telepathic Trackings, then there's a whole stack of Illusionary combats that take place after combat ends, right? Halcyan 2

[ quoted text not captured ] Sure. Wierd meta-game you got there. :-) [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3BD49CE1...@white-wolf.com>... > Halcyan 2 wrote: > > > > >Right. Telepathic Tracking can be played when combat is ending (e.g., by > > >Illusions of the Kindred). The after combat effect (Illusionary combat) > > >is then put on hold until the combat actually ends. > > > > So if multiple Illusions of the Kindred are played along with multiple > > Telepathic Trackings, then there's a whole stack of Illusionary combats that > > take place after combat ends, right? > > Sure. Wierd meta-game you got there. :-) Righto few more quick question. Once the Telepathic Tracking is played after the Illusions of the Kindred is it the first or second round of combat? Another related question. If a carrion crows is played and then one of the minions plays a strike combat ends which resluts in a Telepathic Tracking being played. Is the damage from the carrion crows dealt? Also if both minions play an Earth Meld at supperior who untaps?

Kerravon wrote: > Righto few more quick question. Once the Telepathic Tracking is played > after the Illusions of the Kindred is it the first or second round of > combat? Second (card text). > Another related question. If a carrion crows is played and then one of > the minions plays a strike combat ends which resluts in a Telepathic > Tracking being played. Is the damage from the carrion crows dealt? No. See the rules on S:CE. > Also if both minions play an Earth Meld at supperior who untaps? Both. [ quoted text not captured ]

>Righto few more quick question. Once the Telepathic Tracking is played >after the Illusions of the Kindred is it the first or second round of >combat? Second methinks. The Illusions would end combat but the Telepathic Tracking starts another round (without finishing the current round). >Another related question. If a carrion crows is played and then one of >the minions plays a strike combat ends which resluts in a Telepathic >Tracking being played. Is the damage from the carrion crows dealt? The damage from Carrion Crows isn't dealt (I think). The S:CE would end the combat but TT starts another round so the next round starts (and the original round with the remaining strike resolution is never dealt with). >Also if both minions play an Earth Meld at supperior who untaps? Both do. They happen simultaneously. Halcyan 2