'Clan Impersonation' or 'Clark Kent takes off his Glasses'

Okay, so this is one of the stupidest cards in existance. What I want to know is, are these new vampires actually going to be counted as clans? As has always been the downfall of Clan Impersonation, it doesn't make sense that just any old vampire can swap clans, and no one will notice. More importantly, there is no list of clans to choose from. Since someone thinks clan and sect are different, except when you change your clan to a clan that is supposed to be a sect(that is ONLY listed on this newsgroup I might add) your sect also is changed. Anyway, I really hope that the rules for this are made much clearer. Clan Impersonation says you become a clan, will that mean you can switch to a bloodline? Wouldn't it be a little silly to say that Don Cruez can put on a hat and suddenly is one of the extremely rare(scarce) Nagaraja bloodlines. Should there be easy ways around drawbacks built into cards to stop them from being used en mass?(see Assimites using Amarath) Aaron The Nosferatu Stuff

Aaron wrote: > > Okay, so this is one of the stupidest cards in existance. > What I want to know is, are these new vampires actually going to be > counted as clans? The scarce rule given on the web page indicates so. > As has always been the downfall of Clan > Impersonation, it doesn't make sense that just any old vampire can > swap clans, and no one will notice. And it causes many headaches for rulemongers, too. :-) > More importantly, there is no list of clans to choose from. Since > someone thinks clan and sect are different, except when you change Everyone thinks clans and sect are different. No one thinks "Brujah" is a sect and no one thinks "Sabbat" is a clan, AFAIK. > your clan to a clan that is supposed to be a sect(that is ONLY listed > on this newsgroup I might add) your sect also is changed. Sect designations are given in the rulebook. See section 10. The rule on changing sect is also in that section. > Anyway, I really hope that the rules for this are made much clearer. How is section 10 unclear now? > Clan Impersonation says you become a clan, will that mean you can > switch to a bloodline? Wouldn't it be a little silly to say that Don Card text doesn't restrict the clan chosen to "Camarilla clan" or to "non-Bloodlines-expansion clan". > Cruez can put on a hat and suddenly is one of the extremely > rare(scarce) Nagaraja bloodlines. Should there be easy ways around > drawbacks built into cards to stop them from being used en mass?(see > Assimites using Amarath) Should you be able to play a Master: Discipline card on a vampire to get around the drawback of not having that discipline? -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Aaron wrote: >Okay, so this is one of the stupidest cards in existance. I think there are far stupider ones. >What I want to know is, are these new vampires actually going to be >counted as clans? Yes. We know this from the wording of the new "scarce" rule that was outlined in the Preview. >As has always been the downfall of Clan >Impersonation, it doesn't make sense that just any old vampire can >swap clans, and no one will notice. It costs two blood and an action, which is blockable. If the action is blocked, then presumably that means that somebody noticed, and the disguise did not work. The card is hardly overused or overpowered. But I sympathize with your objection to some extent. I would have preferred it, thematically, if members of the clan being impersonated had been provided with some means of burning the card and thereby exposing the imposter. >More importantly, there is no list of clans to choose from. >Since >someone thinks clan and sect are different, except when you change >your clan to a clan that is supposed to be a sect(that is ONLY listed >on this newsgroup I might add) your sect also is changed. Check the Rulebook. All (current) clans are listed, as well as the sects that they belong to by default. Presumably this rulebook will be updtated with the release of Bloodlines. >Anyway, I really hope that the rules for this are made much clearer. They are clear, though perhaps not as simple as some might prefer. >Clan Impersonation says you become a clan, will that mean you can >switch to a bloodline? Yes. At least, we know the Nagaraja are a clan, so presumably the other bloodlines are as well. The only such category that is not a clan are the Caitiff. >Wouldn't it be a little silly to say that Don >Cruez can put on a hat and suddenly is one of the extremely >rare(scarce) Nagaraja bloodlines. Such an operation as the undercover infiltration of the Nagaraja would arguably not be beyond the power of a Justicar. It would involve burning 2 pool, which in thematically represents a considerable investment of resources and effort - a bit more than putting on ones hat. Don Cruez would also have to surrender the benefits of his title for the duration of the operation. With an ancient, powerful Methuselah helping him, it is by no means inconcievable that he might pull it off.. He does have dom, you know, which is an in-clan discipline for the Nagaraja. Of course, it is funny to imagine a Nosferatu impersonating a Toreador. But even there you can imagine a cover story: "Please don't look under my hood -- I've been horribly disfigured by Tzimisce torturers, and am ashamed to be seen until I can heal." -- John Whelan

In message <20011017153135...@mb-ma.news.cs.com>, Nystulc <nys...@cs.com> writes >>What I want to know is, are these new vampires actually going to be >>counted as clans? > >Yes. We know this from the wording of the new "scarce" rule that was outlined >in the Preview. [I'm not expecting what I write below to happen.] Theoretically, however, there is nothing stopping the Design Team issuing a ruling (like those limiting the sect of vampires who can call the vote to burn the Elysium, say) preventing Clan Impersonation from choosing Nagaraja (or any other specific Bloodlines clan or clans). -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D And if it's all right, I'd kind've like to be your lover EBD690ECD7A1F 'Cause when you're with me I can't help but be B457CA213D7E6 So desperately, uncontrollably happy 68C3695D623D5D

> > As has always been the downfall of Clan > > Impersonation, it doesn't make sense that just any old vampire can > > swap clans, and no one will notice. > > And it causes many headaches for rulemongers, too. :-) I can imagine that there are more then a few things that you just ask yourself, damn was it even worth it? > > More importantly, there is no list of clans to choose from. Since > > someone thinks clan and sect are different, except when you change > > Everyone thinks clans and sect are different. > No one thinks "Brujah" is a sect and no one thinks "Sabbat" is a clan, AFAIK. No, but I think that it makes more sense to just keep them totally seperate. Changing clans doesn't reflect changing sects and all. It might be a little less 'story wise' correct, but it would make things much easier to follow. Think about it, the Sabbat Nosferatu that C.I. to Ravnos...well somehow his card text is over ridden..."Sabbat" is gone because he changed his little tragety symbol to the cross? Even though there is a Ravnos that is Sabbat. But should the poor sabbat Nosferatu change sect to camarilla(with a writ) he gets to keep his symbol, just changing his text from Sabbat to Camarilla(as per the card) See why the 2 for 1 deal of impersonation changing clans AND sect is a little bit unfair? (section 10...yeah yeah) > > Clan Impersonation says you become a clan, will that mean you can > > switch to a bloodline? Wouldn't it be a little silly to say that Don > > Card text doesn't restrict the clan chosen to "Camarilla clan" or to > "non-Bloodlines-expansion clan". Bloodline doesn't seem much like a clan to me. But I just wanted to be sure before I started coveting my not-reprinted C.I. > > Cruez can put on a hat and suddenly is one of the extremely > > rare(scarce) Nagaraja bloodlines. Should there be easy ways around > > drawbacks built into cards to stop them from being used en mass?(see > > Assimites using Amarath) > > Should you be able to play a Master: Discipline card on a vampire > to get around the drawback of not having that discipline? Hmm...Maybe you should just make an action, and if it happens all cards you play that are limited to once per game/person are useable all you want. There is no point in trying to make bloodlines only a deck 'addition' if it's easy to play them as a whole deck just using C.I. or any other card. Then again I'm just assuming bloodlines are more powerful then their sabbat/camarilla/independent sisters. Maybe they will be just the same, and NEED to overcome being scarce just to be playable? =\ -- Aaron The Nosferatu Stuff

The Nosferatu Stuff wrote: > There is no point in trying to make bloodlines only a deck 'addition' if > it's easy to play them as a whole deck just using C.I. or any other card. I think we have different concepts of how "easy" it is to depend on drawing your CIs when you want while still keeping card flow and simultaneously affording the blood loss and "passive" action (assuming we can stealth the action through). [ quoted text not captured ]

roans...@yahoo.com (Aaron) wrote: [snip] >Anyway, I really hope that the rules for this are made much clearer. >Clan Impersonation says you become a clan, will that mean you can >switch to a bloodline? Wouldn't it be a little silly to say that Don >Cruez can put on a hat and suddenly is one of the extremely >rare(scarce) Nagaraja bloodlines. Should there be easy ways around >drawbacks built into cards to stop them from being used en mass?(see >Assimites using Amarath) Coming Out of the Closet Action Acting vampire not of a bloodline is now of the bloodline of the acting Methuselah's choice. "I just couldn't do it anymore: holding in my true nature." -- Acting vampire Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices.

nys...@cs.com (Nystulc) wrote: [snip] >Of course, it is funny to imagine a Nosferatu impersonating a Toreador. But >even there you can imagine a cover story: "Please don't look under my hood -- >I've been horribly disfigured by Tzimisce torturers, and am ashamed to be seen >until I can heal." Or: "My body is my art. I am making a statement against the overrating of beauty in society." [ quoted text not captured ]

> I think we have different concepts of how "easy" it is to depend on drawing > your CIs when you want while still keeping card flow and simultaneously > affording the blood loss and "passive" action (assuming we can stealth the > action through). 2 blood from a vampire....or 3 extra pool. Which do you choose? What about Assamites using Amarath? How easy is it to counter that card, direct intervention and it's gone. While it over comes their restriction against diab it sucks up card slots. Maybe there is just more intercept in your local area? Or maybe you like the idea of going up against someone that can play immortal grapple pushing the limit because you blocked his clan impersonation? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------- Dimple: "Eb, I'm tired of being a yucky, green skined, bottom feeding, spat on, stinky, doesn't have any friends, Nosferatu." Ebanezer Roush: "Dimple, you don't have to stay here, just use mask and pretend to be Alexandra, thats what I do when no having skin gets me down." Dimple: "Yeah, but I only have basic obs, and I am a just a baby vampire." Ebanezer Roush: "Right...well lets try this..." *Ebanezer runs back into his haven* "Okay, put this on. But be careful, it's heavy! You will probably have to go hunting to get your strenth back up just to carry it around." Dimple: "What the hell is that?" Ebanezer Roush: "It's a brown sack. Wrap up in this and tell people you are an 'artiest' It really works, look at me!" Dimple: "WOW! Thanks Eb, you are the best. What was I thinking wearing this old fuzzy orange sweater? I'll just put on this sack and no one will know. hehehe" Di'Paul quickly runs out to the Society Hunting ground to fill back up, and pick get his Resplended protector. He then buys the Art Museam, and holds a Toreador Grand Ball. When Anson starts to get suspicious Di'Paul gets Command of the Harpies and Scorns Anson's Adonis striping him of his princedom. Finally the tired little Toreferatu heads home and takes off his sack before Francois Villon sicks the Louvre on him. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Gene Wirchenko" <ge...@mail.ocis.net> wrote > "I just couldn't do it anymore: holding in my true nature." -- Acting > vampire I like that, a quote from 'the acting vampire' =) Up Yours! becomes: I got my flame thrower back eventually -- 'Opponants dead vampire' [ quoted text not captured ]

The Nosferatu Stuff wrote: > > > I think we have different concepts of how "easy" it is to depend on > drawing > > your CIs when you want while still keeping card flow and simultaneously > > affording the blood loss and "passive" action (assuming we can stealth the > > action through). > > 2 blood from a vampire....or 3 extra pool. Which do you choose? What about 2 blood, 1 action, a card that I need to draw from my library early on but not later ... or 3 pool. I suggest trying it before passing judgment. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:14:28 -0400, LSJ wrote: >Everyone thinks clans and sect are different. >No one thinks "Brujah" is a sect and no one thinks "Sabbat" is a clan, AFAIK. The problem word is "antitribu". This signifies sect to me but VTES now uses it to mean clan. Would have been cleaner and simpler if the antitribu kept the same clan symbol but had a separate sect trait. It's annoying that the Malkavians can't use Reality Mirror, Escaped Mental Patient or Malkavian Game. It'd be good if there were some cheap card that broke this artificial barrier between the antitribu and their parent clan. Something like: Blood Ties Master Cost: 1 pool Choose an antitribu clan. You may consider this clan to be the same as its parent clan when playing cards which require a ready minion of either clan. Andrew

In message <3BCECD49...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vtesrep@white- wolf.com> writes >2 blood, 1 action, a card that I need to draw from my library early on but >not later ... or 3 pool. > >I suggest trying it before passing judgment. Of course, a deck designed to capitalise on Clan Impersonation as part of its inherent strategy wouldn't do so badly. A deck involving Mind Rape and Judgement: Camarilla Segregation, using a couple of Nagaraja in order to facilitate use of Dominate and some Necromancy ash-heap diving, would quite likely have quite a few knocking around. Which, of course, then restricts you significantly in the deck you're playing. [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <BE737DA2DEAFAC26.0ABCC5E8...@lp.airnew s.net>, Andrew S. Davidson <a...@csi.com> writes >Choose an antitribu clan. You may consider this clan to be the same as >its parent clan when playing cards which require a ready minion of >either clan. There is no concept of parent clan; you would have to define that. (Bear in mind what happens if Serpents of the Light make it into the game at any point, too. They're not called "Antitribu".) [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3BCECD49...@white-wolf.com>... > The Nosferatu Stuff wrote: > > > > > I think we have different concepts of how "easy" it is to depend on > drawing > > > your CIs when you want while still keeping card flow and simultaneously > > > affording the blood loss and "passive" action (assuming we can stealth the > > > action through). > > > > 2 blood from a vampire....or 3 extra pool. Which do you choose? What about > > 2 blood, 1 action, a card that I need to draw from my library early on but > not later ... or 3 pool. > > I suggest trying it before passing judgment. Thats not very reasonable at all. Please explain why then, anyone would want to use art scam? you just gain 2 pool. it's an action. If you draw it at the wrong time it's no good. It can be blocked. Why would anyone use that for a clan with AUS/PRE/CEL? Because they depend on alacrity(+2 steath total) to sneak them buy? The obviously don't have any of the cards the Naga. have to help get things by.(dom+nec) And that is only 2 pool, compared to the 3 of a C.I. skipping the scarce cost. Aaron

"The Nosferatu Stuff" <roans...@yahoo.com> wrote <snip insane ramblings> Aaron, you need to channel your frustration into something positive. Try writing a newsletter! Cheers, WES

Aaron wrote: > > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3BCECD49...@white-wolf.com>... > > The Nosferatu Stuff wrote: > > > > > > > I think we have different concepts of how "easy" it is to depend on > > drawing > > > > your CIs when you want while still keeping card flow and simultaneously > > > > affording the blood loss and "passive" action (assuming we can stealth the > > > > action through). > > > > > > 2 blood from a vampire....or 3 extra pool. Which do you choose? What about > > > > 2 blood, 1 action, a card that I need to draw from my library early on but > > not later ... or 3 pool. > > > > I suggest trying it before passing judgment. > > Thats not very reasonable at all. Please explain why then, anyone Trying it before passing judgmnet? > would want to use art scam? you just gain 2 pool. it's an action. > If you draw it at the wrong time it's no good. It can be blocked. When is the wrong time to gain 2 pool? [ quoted text not captured ]

> > > I suggest trying it before passing judgment. > > > > Thats not very reasonable at all. Please explain why then, anyone > > Trying it before passing judgmnet? But but...sigh. Fine. I will try clan impersonation before going any further...under 1 condition..if it sucks you have to fix it! =) > > would want to use art scam? you just gain 2 pool. it's an action. > > If you draw it at the wrong time it's no good. It can be blocked. > > When is the wrong time to gain 2 pool? ? There are times, but more importantly it the drawing that makes the card useless. 2 examples spring to mind...when facing Noal's Derange deck (would be nice to use these clan cards) or when in combat and you REALLY need that majesty and you draw that stupid gain 2 pool card. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Wes" <gh...@NOSPAMmnsi.net> wrote in message news:9qng4...@enews2.newsguy.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Well, I did write a fun little story about my favorite vampire Dimple. Maybe I should try to get that into the Nosferatu newsletter. I think I will write a news letter about things that just don't make sense. Call it "Bottom of the Backstory". [ quoted text not captured ]

On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, LSJ wrote: > Aaron wrote: [snip] > > > would want to use art scam? you just gain 2 pool. it's an action. > > If you draw it at the wrong time it's no good. It can be blocked. > > When is the wrong time to gain 2 pool? ...and this leads us right back to the Parity Shift thread. O:) salem. (the answer, obviously, is when your predator has one less pool than you, and the number of players in the game is equal to your current pool...and your predator has vote lock and some Princes or justicars..and there is a reversal of fortunes in play)