LSJ,
Can you use superior Decapitate on an Imbued? I would seem from the
card text that you can not. Is that correct?
Imbued
Imbued are new crypt cards. An imbued is considered a mortal ally, not
a vampire. Imbued have 1 strength and 1 bleed, by default. Their cost
is also their starting life, and it is specified on each card
individually (like capacity). They have creeds (like clans). They have
virtues (like Disciplines, but only one level). When they have zero
life, they are incapacitated (like torpor) instead of being burned (see
5 below). Any "burn ally" effect will still burn an imbued, however.
Decapitate
Type: Combat
Requires: Potence
Cost: 2 blood
[pot] Strike: make a hand strike or melee weapon strike at +2 damage.
[POT] Only usable when the opposing vampire is going into torpor; not
usable by a vampire being burned or going into torpor. Burn the
opposing vampire instead of sending that vampire to torpor.
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
In message <1142980813.2...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
XZealot <xze...@cox.net> writes:
>LSJ,
>Can you use superior Decapitate on an Imbued? I would seem from the
>card text that you can not. Is that correct?
Could you use it on a mortal ally? Answer: no.
>Decapitate
>Type: Combat
>Requires: Potence
>Cost: 2 blood
>[pot] Strike: make a hand strike or melee weapon strike at +2 damage.
>[POT] Only usable when the opposing vampire is going into torpor; not
>usable by a vampire being burned or going into torpor. Burn the
>opposing vampire instead of sending that vampire to torpor.
A mortal ally would not be going to torpor (allies who freakishly go to
torpor burn instead, anyway) and they are never "the opposing vampire"
what with being treated as allies.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
James Coupe wrote:
> In message <1142980813.2...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> XZealot <xze...@cox.net> writes:
> >LSJ,
> >Can you use superior Decapitate on an Imbued? I would seem from the
> >card text that you can not. Is that correct?
>
> Could you use it on a mortal ally? Answer: no.
Allies don't have a analogous state parallel to torpor, but imbued do.
When they have zero life, they are incapacitated (like torpor) instead
of being burned.
> >Decapitate
> >Type: Combat
> >Requires: Potence
> >Cost: 2 blood
> >[pot] Strike: make a hand strike or melee weapon strike at +2 damage.
> >[POT] Only usable when the opposing vampire is going into torpor; not
> >usable by a vampire being burned or going into torpor. Burn the
> >opposing vampire instead of sending that vampire to torpor.
>
> A mortal ally would not be going to torpor (allies who freakishly go to
> torpor burn instead, anyway) and they are never "the opposing vampire"
> what with being treated as allies.
Exactly why I asked for LSJ to rule on it. There have been plenty of
exceptions on "vampires vs. imbued compatibility" for the list on the
Nights of Reckoning page. I was curious why this one was left off.
It doesn't really make any sense that you couldn't superior decapitate
an imbued. You should be able to, but according to card text you can
not. I am looking to see if it was a mistake that vampires should be
somehow "forbidden" from tearing off someone's head who is trying to
kill them.
This card is a card that burns opposing minions. If you land the
inferior a hand strike for 3 will burn 65 out of 75 allies in the game
at this time. At superior it will burn any vampire going to torpor.
Why are imbued an exception?
[ quoted text not captured ]
In message <1142991976.7...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
XZealot <xze...@cox.net> writes:
>
>James Coupe wrote:
>Allies don't have a analogous state parallel to torpor, but imbued do.
>When they have zero life, they are incapacitated (like torpor) instead
>of being burned.
But which isn't torpor. The card text specifies going to torpor.
>> A mortal ally would not be going to torpor (allies who freakishly go to
>> torpor burn instead, anyway) and they are never "the opposing vampire"
>> what with being treated as allies.>
>Exactly why I asked for LSJ to rule on it.
The card text says "opposing vampire". There isn't an opposing vampire.
End of story.
> There have been plenty of
>exceptions on "vampires vs. imbued compatibility" for the list on the
>Nights of Reckoning page. I was curious why this one was left off.
Because that was only dealing with cards where there was some confusion
e.g. being compelled to pull out a vampire from your crypt, but getting
an imbued instead.
"Those two guidelines should clear up all the ways of
interacting with imbued who aren't in play. But for clarity,
^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^
individual cases are shown below. "
If you can find a nice way of playing Decapitate against a vampire who
isn't in play, then it might need to go on this list.
Do you want to go through every single card that targets a vampire and
add it to that list? (It's a lot of cards.)
No need to, though. You just handle them as you would handle a mortal
ally.
>It doesn't really make any sense that you couldn't superior decapitate
>an imbued. You should be able to, but according to card text you can
>not.
LOTS of card text has such weirdnesses. Why is Decapitate a new one?
How about Ahriman's Demesne? It says vampire and torpor, but we can
pretend that says "imbued" and "incapacitated" even though the card says
something different, right? No, they get treated as mortal allies would
because that's what the announced rules say!
>This card is a card that burns opposing minions.
No, it will deal damage to opposing minions as a strike, and burn
opposing vampires.
You are confusing theme and common usage with what the card actually
does. It doesn't burn allies. It burns allies who don't have enough
life to survive the strike, or don't survive the strike in some other
fashion (e.g. Dodge).
> If you land the
>inferior a hand strike for 3 will burn 65 out of 75 allies in the game
>at this time. At superior it will burn any vampire going to torpor.
>Why are imbued an exception?
They're not.
At inferior, they get treated like any other minion in combat - they
take the extra strike damage.
At superior, they get treated like any other ally - the card can't be
played against them, because they're not the opposing vampire.
That's consistency of card text, not an exception. What you're asking
for is an exception, and would require errata. And as you already point
out, there are allies for whom this card doesn't burn them. Should we
errata it so they can be burned? Why are they an "exception"? Answer:
they're not. It's just application of card text, as normal.
[ quoted text not captured ]
XZealot wrote:
> It doesn't really make any sense that you couldn't superior decapitate
> an imbued. You should be able to, but according to card text you can
> not.
*SNIP*
> Why are imbued an exception?
Card text.
:)
Heikki P.
XZealot wrote:
> James Coupe wrote:
> > In message <1142980813.2...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > XZealot <xze...@cox.net> writes:
> > >LSJ,
> > >Can you use superior Decapitate on an Imbued? I would seem from the
> > >card text that you can not. Is that correct?
> >
> > Could you use it on a mortal ally? Answer: no.
Correct.
> > A mortal ally would not be going to torpor (allies who freakishly go to
> > torpor burn instead, anyway) and they are never "the opposing vampire"
> > what with being treated as allies.
>
> Exactly why I asked for LSJ to rule on it. There have been plenty of
> exceptions on "vampires vs. imbued compatibility" for the list on the
> Nights of Reckoning page. I was curious why this one was left off.
The list tells what to do with crypt cards that aren't in play (and
whose
faces you cannot see -- so that you cannot tell if the card is a
vampire
or not). It lists no exceptions, but rather gives examples of
applications
of the rule that is given just before the list: "if you can see the
face,
then work with that information. Otherwise, you work with whatever
you get."
An imbued in combat is a card whose face you can see, so you look
at it to determine if it meets the target restriction or not. In this
case,
you're looking for a vampire, so the imbued doesn't qualify.
> It doesn't really make any sense that you couldn't superior decapitate
> an imbued. You should be able to, but according to card text you can
> not. I am looking to see if it was a mistake that vampires should be
> somehow "forbidden" from tearing off someone's head who is trying to
> kill them.
>
> This card is a card that burns opposing minions. If you land the
> inferior a hand strike for 3 will burn 65 out of 75 allies in the game
> at this time. At superior it will burn any vampire going to torpor.
> Why are imbued an exception?
Card text.
See also not being able to use Decapitate to kill a retainer. (surely
if
a .44 can Decapitate Smudge, it can Decapitate a Wolf Companion).
Or not being able to Fast Hands a Drum of Xipe Totec.
If you need some reason in a roleplaying aspect:
My vampire players regular decapitate other vampires they have beaten
in combat, so the opponents meet Final Death. They have never done that
to mortals.
The card "Decapitate" is the ability to strike in such a way, that an
oppponent vampire will meet Final Death. It is and can not used against
Mortal allies or mortal what-ever. I have no problems with that, even
in a storytelling aspect.
Frank