During the latest tournament, we had the following problem: one player
repeatedly played cards without describing the whole text. He said
that the other players should know the cards themselves or ask him.
Actually, some of the other players didn't know the cards, and made
several mistakes. Don't the players have to declare the card effect
when he plays a card? The rules state that:
1.6.1. General
Playing Cards. There are three main types of library cards: master
cards, minion cards and event cards.
<skipped>
*** The player completely declares the effect of the card when it is
played. ***
Does it mean that each player must read the text of each permanent and
each card he's playing or not? I guess that players aren't forced to
read the text of each Govern and Majesty. But if the player plays
Afifa, the Herald that nobody else knows, doesn't he have to read the
text? And if he just puts Afifa in his controlled region, isn't such
behaviour an unsportsmanship behaviour?
Thanks in advance,
Ector
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When I play Crocodile's Tongue, I say "Pay 1 (or 2) blood or your
block fails" because that's simpler than reading the card text, and
99% of the time, it's all they need to know. If you're not 100%
certain that you know all of the effects of a card, ask the player to
show you the card.
--
- Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
"Ector" <Ec...@mail.ru> wrote in news:1172670630.967455.223150
@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
[ quoted text not captured ]
The usual response I offer when playing with cards that others are
unfamiliar with (through lack of experience or whatever), is to announce
the card by name, and then ask the table "shall I read it?". In a
tournament, I'd typically forego this at the onsetand go with LSJ's
"announce all that you need to" method, unless a player indicates that a
full text read is necessary (a player at Templecon was unfamiliar with
Tupdogs, for ex). I think its safe to assume that anyone playing
competitively knows the cards, or at least, knows enough to ask if they
don't know a card...
Flip side of that coin, always ask to see a card of have its text read
to you, if you don't know its particulars. Its everyone's individual
responsibility to know the state of the table.
Your specific example would only be unsportsmanlike behavior if the
player attempted to hide the game state by refusing public information
to other players, on the ground that they should "know it by heart.
DZ
AW
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It seems to me that the only things that really need to be declared
are the actual card name, the level of play (inferior or superior),
how the cost will be paid (if there are choices, like with Rescues)
and how much the total is for things like bleeds (Hack for 2) and
strikes (1R bats + 2R crows). Around here, if someone is unsure of the
card, they are allowed to ask to see the card and read its text for
themselves. This saves time in the long run, though the assumption is
made that a player has familiarity with all the cards. The onus is on
them to take time to quickly understand a card they've never seen
before.
Jeff
"Jeff Kuta" <jeff...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172686219....@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
[ quoted text not captured ]
This seems to be the usual approach in US playgroups, and it seems to be
effective enough, at least when everybody speaks the same language. (YMMV if
there are different first languages at the table?)
I agree that the opponents of Ector's hypothetical players must take
responsibility to understand the cards they don't know, but his behavior
would verge on unsportsmanlike if he consistently declined to read cards
when asked, if he put cards in play without naming them, etc. (A related
topic is not fully announcing effects when playing a card... e.g., you have
to announce the amount of the Minion Tap before drawing its replacement.
Clearly against the rules but not always an intentional breach.)
Most people I've played with will take a hint if someone at the table is
clearly new, or returning after an absence, or unfamiliar with a deck
archetype (e.g., Imbued) and will proactively read card text, or at least
show the cards to the new player.
- Pat
> It seems to me that the only things that really need to be declared
> are the actual card name, the level of play (inferior or superior),
> how the cost will be paid (if there are choices, like with Rescues)
> and how much the total is for things like bleeds (Hack for 2) and
> strikes (1R bats + 2R crows).
Yeah, you know, that's whats I thought too. Because it makes sense.
*Until* we had a situation in a tournament where my predator bled me
with Lucita, I flicked to my prey with a Deflection, and my prey (who
had two tapped Tzimisce vampires) played a Wake and declared a younger
Sabbat vampire as a blocker. Then we realised that younger Sabbat
vampires get -1 intercept when attempting to block Lucita. My prey
said he hadn't been told this when the bleed was announced so was
allowed to take back the Wake, and instead Wake the other vampire (who
was the same age as Lucita).
I protested but was told to shut up. I took it to the newsgroup and
was told that everyone must apparently announce every "relevant"
thing.
So when bleeding with Lucita, I apparently have to announce "I am
bleeding with Lucita for three with Govern the Unaligned at Superior
and if any younger Sabbat vampires attempt to block this action they
will receive -1 intercept on that block attempt". Every time I bleed
with her. Whether or not my prey has a younger Sabbat vampire (because
the bleed could be flicked anywhere around the table, as can often
happen). If I don't, I am apparently breaking the rules, or something.
I am half-tempted to abuse this and kick up a fuss at a tournament
every time someone bleeds someone but doesn't announce the fact that
if this vampire is blocked and my prey controls a younger bishop, I
must move one blood from that bishop to a Laibon vampire with a
capacity greater than 8 if he has hunted since my predator's last
turn. Because that, you know, might be relevant to someone. Or
something. Oh well. Basically you are supposed to announce every
possible detail of an action every time you do anything. If you don't,
and people later realise they weren't really paying attention (e.g.
they didn't know your vampire gets +1 strength in combat with a
Ventrue or whatever), and have made a blocking mistake, they get to
take everything back and pick a better option, and get rewarded for
not paying attention to the cards. Go read the thread if you're
curious, LSJ linked to it in his post here.
I consider it to be a bit depressing but there you go.
> Around here, if someone is unsure of the
> card, they are allowed to ask to see the card and read its text for
> themselves. This saves time in the long run, though the assumption is
> made that a player has familiarity with all the cards. The onus is on
> them to take time to quickly understand a card they've never seen before.
I'd like to agree with you, but I'm afraid it's not. The onus is on a
player to tell everyone every "relevant" aspect of their cards every
time they take an action. Read the thread. No clear definition of
"relevant" was provided by LSJ so as usual it's up to the judges.
>
> Jeff
In message <1172816608.2...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
Dasein <dasei...@hotmail.com> writes:
>So when bleeding with Lucita, I apparently have to announce "I am
>bleeding with Lucita for three with Govern the Unaligned at Superior
>and if any younger Sabbat vampires attempt to block this action they
>will receive -1 intercept on that block attempt". Every time I bleed
>with her. Whether or not my prey has a younger Sabbat vampire (because
>the bleed could be flicked anywhere around the table, as can often
>happen).
This is a pretty bizarre interpretation of the situation. Also, you
appear to have a mis-printed Govern the Unaligned. Put it on Ebay and
make $millions.
It's always worth reading out a minion when you bring them out if they
have an unusual special. And when the bleed is flicked, it would
probably be helpful then to ask the new target "You know about her
special, right?" That's the point at which it is relevant.
If you had already alerted your prey to her special (because, you never
know, the next vampire(s) he brings out might be of a relevant age/sect,
and the special might change his mind as to who comes out), then no-one
is likely to quibble.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
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13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.