Maybe I'm missing some stuff but I must say, I'm shocked at how much
stuff the Baali got with this expansion. This is all first-reaction
stuff so with the caveat that things may turn out much differently
than I'm thinking now (reality often varies widely from my first
reactions about things), I'm looking at a Baali bloodline that may
be very competitive and interesting now. Possibly even arguably
overpowered with some of this stuff.
1) The new version of the infernal rule. While it may appear to be
a very modest change, I think it may be deceptively important in terms
of allowing Baali to sit around and defend while the player is going
through spells of bad library draws or needs to hold out against an
aggressive predator. And it was probably an important change to make
the two new Baali reaction cards much more usable.
2) Ruins of Charizel. This card will keep a Baali deck in play
against an aggressive bleed predator for a significantly longer time.
Good job! And it eloquently becomes non-functional when the Baali
player is no longer paying infernal penalties because, for instance,
all of his infernal minions have been waxed off the board. I also
like the fact that it's both a booster rare and one comes in the
Baali precon. I suspect most dedicated Baali decks would want more
than one.
3) Bloodstorm of Chorazin. (Why does this card sound like some form of
ethnic food I'll never EVER be wanting to try?) Defense against
mindless combat usable by younger minions. Nice tool to allow
Baali decks a shot at surviving a combat-centered metagame. (At least
rush combat. Baali decks can always build decks to avoid intercept
combat with mondo stealth.)
4) Undying Thirst. This can be REAL nasty! Put this a blocked vampire
and he now has to diablerize if he can diablerize or else do nothing.
I notice this INCLUDES the affected minion's own Methuselah's vampires.
And there's no way to get rid of the card once played. It's not unique
and it doesn't cost anything. I love it! It looks like it could have
a real noticable effect on games but at the same time, it's far from
overpowered.
5) Condemnation: Mute. Finally, a Condemnation I'd actually use! And
here's a Baali defense against the historically-defined third leg of
stratetgy choices: vote. (Bleed and combat is covered above.) It's
usable at inferior but at superior, it's even nastier!
6) Ignore the Searing Flames. This one probably isn't that important
but it's another combat option and it's definitely not wallpaper.
The nice thing about all this is that it will also make some other
existing Baali/Daimonion cards useful. Things like Sense the Sin,
Concordance, and Contagion were not bad cards. They just weren't
enough by themselves. Now, they ought to see the daylight from
peoples' cardboxes - assuming they hadn't already been thrown away.
My compliments to the designers! It all looks like good stuff to me.
Fred
Frederick Scott wrote:
> 3) Bloodstorm of Chorazin. (Why does this card sound like some form
of
> ethnic food I'll never EVER be wanting to try?) Defense against
> mindless combat usable by younger minions. Nice tool to allow
> Baali decks a shot at surviving a combat-centered metagame. (At
least
> rush combat. Baali decks can always build decks to avoid intercept
> combat with mondo stealth.)
Or with three different "block fails" cards, thanks to Psychomachia,
Elder Impersonation, and True Love's Lesbian Porn.
John
[ quoted text not captured ]
yes, indeed...out infernal lot received great trinckets to play with in
this expansion...I can´t wait to put my hands in them, as i´ll most
certainly be writing a WHOLE lot about them in the coming months...
cheers
Luciano de Sampaio
VEKN Anarch Baron de Curitiba
VEKN Baali Clan Newsletter Editor
Frederick Scott wrote:
>
> 1) The new version of the infernal rule. While it may appear to be
> a very modest change, I think it may be deceptively important in
terms
> of allowing Baali to sit around and defend while the player is going
> through spells of bad library draws or needs to hold out against an
> aggressive predator. And it was probably an important change to make
> the two new Baali reaction cards much more usable.
>
Also helps quite a bit with cards that let you untap at the end of the
turn, like Concordance. Also Metro Underground, which now lets you pay
the Infernal penalty at the end of the turn and keep them untapped to
play reactions.
>
> 6) Ignore the Searing Flames. This one probably isn't that important
> but it's another combat option and it's definitely not wallpaper.
>
It's incredibly important. Note that most of the new Baali have Thaum,
and there's one or two new Settites with Thaum, and of course Valerius
Maior. With either Concordance or ItSF, you can set up the Burst of
Sunlight combo. The pre-con contains this combo, along with the
Concordance/Rutor's Hand combo, but not in great quantity - something
that can easily be rectified in a constructed deck. But the nice thing
about ItSF is that not only does it set up the Burst of Sunlight combo,
but it also makes opposing minions' agg damage worse against you than
normal damage. Very good for fighting Gangrel, Tzimisce, or Tremere.
> The nice thing about all this is that it will also make some other
> existing Baali/Daimonion cards useful. Things like Sense the Sin,
> Concordance, and Contagion were not bad cards. They just weren't
> enough by themselves.
>
Yeah, those three were already good cards, but now they're fantastic.
Sense the Sin is especially great now that you can leave minions
untapped to block. It doubles as both intercept and bleed mod. About
10 of them per deck, I'd say.
Brings back hope that Kiasyd or Blood Brothers might get some more
loving in the next set, although it's not like Kiasyd weren't already
perfectly playable.
On 23 Feb 2005 11:56:31 -0800, jnew...@difsol.com scrawled:
[ quoted text not captured ]
and psychomachia leaves them tapped! jeebus!
sadly, the power of the last one is undermined by the way it
completely hoses your powers of concentration when you play it.
or maybe that's just me.
salem
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
On 23 Feb 2005 13:54:40 -0800, "Chris Berger"
<ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> scrawled:
>> 6) Ignore the Searing Flames. This one probably isn't that important
>> but it's another combat option and it's definitely not wallpaper.
>>>It's incredibly important. Note that most of the new Baali have Thaum,
>and there's one or two new Settites with Thaum, and of course Valerius
>Maior. With either Concordance or ItSF, you can set up the Burst of
>Sunlight combo. The pre-con contains this combo, along with the
ok. the burst of sunlight combo. right. you do know your vamp, if it
played concordance, has dai? as in, conflagration?
>Concordance/Rutor's Hand combo, but not in great quantity - something
ok, this one never occurred to me. rockin!
[ quoted text not captured ]
Yeah, but Burst of Sunlight is more fun and can be used by the thaum
weenies in the deck as well.
Okay, okay, it occurred to me to use Conflagration, but for some
reason, when I used Burst of Sunlight (in the pre-release), I felt more
fulfilled. But since sup BoS plus superior ItSF is the same result as
superior Conflagration (1 blood burned off each vampire, opposing one
goes to torp - assuming no prevention), I don't know why. Granted,
ItSF is good on its own in other combos and as a pretty sweet damage
prevention card against certain clans, but I swear there was a reason
that I preferred BoS over Conflagration. Maybe it is the thaum
weenies? Or maybe it was the Heart of Darkness + Sahira Siraj that was
also in the precon?
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:09:38 +1100, salem
<salem_ch...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On 23 Feb 2005 13:54:40 -0800, "Chris Berger"
><ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> scrawled:
>>>It's incredibly important. Note that most of the new Baali have Thaum,
>>and there's one or two new Settites with Thaum, and of course Valerius
>>Maior. With either Concordance or ItSF, you can set up the Burst of
>>Sunlight combo. The pre-con contains this combo, along with the>
>ok. the burst of sunlight combo. right. you do know your vamp, if it
>played concordance, has dai? as in, conflagration?
Yeah, but each method leads to different results, specially at [DAI].
Concordance + Conflagration = *treat* agg damage as normal, deal 1R or
2R agg for 1 blood.
Ignore the Searing Flames (at [DAI]) + Burst of Sunlight = get
*immune* to agg damage for 1 blood, deal 1R or 2R agg for no cost.
Of course, the first involves a permanent card and requires only one
discipline. The other is more card-intensive and requires [DAI] to be
more effective in protecting your Baali from *any* agg damage.
>>Concordance/Rutor's Hand combo, but not in great quantity - something>ok, this one never occurred to me. rockin!
>salem
>http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
>(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
Not to mention Majesty after successfully blocking :)
I'm worried about blood costs, though. Everything costs blood, and
Baali are not supposed to take time hunting ;)
best,
Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V:tES Brasil Site (only in Portuguese for now)
http://planeta.terra.com.br/lazer/vtesbrasil/
[ quoted text not captured ]
In the Pre-release, I solved this problem by diablerizing a nearly-full
Count Germaine. Oh, and calling the Great Beast.
John
> 2) Ruins of Charizel. This card will keep a Baali deck in play
> against an aggressive bleed predator for a significantly longer time.
> Good job! And it eloquently becomes non-functional when the Baali
> player is no longer paying infernal penalties because, for instance,
> all of his infernal minions have been waxed off the board. I also
> like the fact that it's both a booster rare and one comes in the
> Baali precon. I suspect most dedicated Baali decks would want more
> than one.
>
Remember that Maureen/Call the Great Beast Combo everyone was talking
about when she was previewed? It gets even better with Ruins of Charizel.
As long as your Predator tries to bleed you, you actually *gain* pool with
the Combo. And if he doesn't? Too bad...
That was a question I had at the pre-release - the action to put a
counter on the Great Beast is an action that requires a Baali, right?
Unfortunately, I never had to worry about it at the tourney, since
Maureen got blocked on the initial action.
[ quoted text not captured ]
I assume so. I called the Great Beast with Cybele. Untapped her with
Mylan, and put the 11th counter on it in one turn, hehe.
Then he bled for 7.
John
Fabio "Sooner" Macedo wrote:
>
> Yeah, but each method leads to different results, specially at [DAI].
> Concordance + Conflagration = *treat* agg damage as normal, deal 1R
or
> 2R agg for 1 blood.
> Ignore the Searing Flames (at [DAI]) + Burst of Sunlight = get
> *immune* to agg damage for 1 blood, deal 1R or 2R agg for no cost.
>
> Of course, the first involves a permanent card and requires only one
> discipline. The other is more card-intensive and requires [DAI] to be
> more effective in protecting your Baali from *any* agg damage.
>
The thing is, preventing the agg damage might be a little bit
cornercase, and perhaps you'd be better off just using the
Conflagration (which doesn't require having Concordance or ItSF around
- obviously you'd still have some ItSF in the deck, and at inferior
dai, it will prevent all damage from an agg strike without having to
burn blood). But on the other hand, if you have Thaum weenies in the
deck, BoS makes for an excellent little bomb attack.
My favorite exchange at the pre-release - Sahira Siraj tries a
Temptation, gets blocked, plays Burst of Sunlight. Cohn Rose tries to
diab and gets blocked, maneuvers and plays Theft, then untaps with
Rutor's Hand and rescues Sahira using stolen blood. Then Maureen, who
is at one blood and has an Anathema on her, goes and diablerizes the
full-blood vampire in torpor (she burns, but Anathema goes away too).
Sweet revenge. That'll teach you to block my actions.
"Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:1109257218.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> That was a question I had at the pre-release - the action to put a
> counter on the Great Beast is an action that requires a Baali, right?
Yes. Google: "great beast requires baali author:LSJ"
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu