rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Simple Questions

31 messages from 16 participants · 20 July 1995 – 28 July 1995
original thread on Google Groups

Gary Schwartz

Marco Diotallevi <MC7...@mclink.it> wrote: > >I have just a few questions for all jyhad rulemongers: > >1)Damage from retainers add to that made by the vampire onto which they've >been played ? If it is so, if the minion plays an additional strike card, >does the retainer have an additional strike too ? No. In particular, the Wolf Companion clearly says that it does 1 damage each ROUND of combat. (Note that this is not a strike.) For other cases, the cards which give additional strikes only give those strikes to the minion playing the card - not to any retainers the minion may have. >2)The 50-cards limitations for two players, and 10 more cards for each >more player is a valid and/or reasonable one ? I mean, being a new player of jyhad, >should i break every limitation ? First, the maximum number of cards you may have in your deck for a game is 40 + 10 for each player in the game. Thus in a 2 player game you may have 60 cards rather than 50. However, when I play with my friends we may have 3, 4 or 5 players and it is very tedious to keep adding and removing cards from your deck. So we have a house rule that more cards are OK as long as no one objects. Hope this helps. Gary

Marco Diotallevi

I have just a few questions for all jyhad rulemongers: 1)Damage from retainers add to that made by the vampire onto which they've been played ? If it is so, if the minion plays an additional strike card, does the retainer have an additional strike too ? 2)The 50-cards limitations for two players, and 10 more cards for each more player is a valid and/or reasonable one ? I mean, being a new player of jyhad, should i break every limitation ? Is there anybody reading this message playing Jyhad (and NOT Magic ! :-) ) in Rome ? Thanx to everybody for your time, and forgive me for my english.

Gary Schwartz

bt...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Andre Beaulieu) wrote: >Damage from a retainer does add to the damage done by the vampire. >Additional strike cards are Celerity cards, and Celerity is an ability >only vampires can use. Since all retainers are non-vampires, they don't >get an additional strike. One thing we've been doing in our group though, >is to consider the vampire's strike and the retainer's strike as two >seperate strikes. If an opponent dodges, he must decide which one he's >dodging...<heheheh!> > >-Paul-Andre There is only one retainer (that I know of) that actually strikes, the Ghoul Retainer. The rest, such as Wolf Companion, say "does X damage" which as far as I can tell is NOT considered a strike, but merely an effect of the retainer. The Rulebook is unclear about dodges; it says "... it negates the effect of THE opponent's strike that round." This clearly assumes that there is only one opponent, but the Ghoul Retainer says that it may strike with hands or a weapon. I would have to agree with your interpretation on this one - there's absolutely no way to dodge both the vampire & the Ghoul at the same time. Just my 2 cents. Gary

James R. McClure Jr.

Marco Diotallevi <MC7...@mclink.it> wrote: >1)Damage from retainers add to that made by the vampire onto which they've >been played ? If it is so, if the minion plays an additional strike card, >does the retainer have an additional strike too ? Peace Marco, No, damage from retainers does NOT add to the vampire onto which they are played. The retainer is a separate entity and takes/deals damage as such. No, retainers do not benefit from cards played by the minion to which they are attached (don't get additional strike or do additional damage or take less damage). >2)The 50-cards limitations for two players, and 10 more cards for each >more player is a valid and/or reasonable one ? I mean, being a new player of jyhad, >should i break every limitation ? The deck construction rules for Jyhad are 40 cards minimum - 40+10/player maximum. These restrictions are very reasonable and appropriate. Please, adhear to them. >Thanx to everybody for your time, and forgive me for my english. I'm sure your English is MUCH better than my Italian. Nil carborundum illigitimi, James R. McClure Jr. The OS/2 Apostle <insert disclaimer here>

Andre Beaulieu

Marco Diotallevi (MC7...@mclink.it) writes: > I have just a few questions for all jyhad rulemongers: > > 1)Damage from retainers add to that made by the vampire onto which they've > been > played ? If it is so, if the minion plays an additional strike card, > does the > retainer have an additional strike too ? Damage from a retainer does add to the damage done by the vampire. [ quoted text not captured ]

L. Scott Johnson

Gary Schwartz <schw...@symcom.math.uiuc.edu> writes: >bt...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Andre Beaulieu) wrote: >>Damage from a retainer does add to the damage done by the vampire. ... >>One thing we've been doing in our group though, >>is to consider the vampire's strike and the retainer's strike as two >>seperate strikes. If an opponent dodges, he must decide which one he's >>dodging...<heheheh!> >There is only one retainer (that I know of) that actually strikes, the >Ghoul Retainer. The rest, such as Wolf Companion, say "does X damage" which >as far as I can tell is NOT considered a strike, but merely an effect of >the retainer. The Rulebook is unclear about dodges; it says "... it >negates the effect of THE opponent's strike that round." This clearly >assumes that there is only one opponent, but the Ghoul Retainer says that >it may strike with hands or a weapon. I would have to agree with your >interpretation on this one - there's absolutely no way to dodge both >the vampire & the Ghoul at the same time. The ghoul retainer doesn't strike either. No damage from retainers may be dodged. No damage directed at retainers may be dodged. Note that the weapon the ghoul uses is still "used" for things like Chainsaw and Sawed-off Shotgun. It simply isn't a strike. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | These opinions are mine and http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text. Graphics Specialist and Jyhad Rulemonger. |

Gary Schwartz

sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: >Gary Schwartz <schw...@symcom.math.uiuc.edu> writes a bunch of nonsense. >The ghoul retainer doesn't strike either. No damage from retainers may be >dodged. No damage directed at retainers may be dodged. > >Note that the weapon the ghoul uses is still "used" for things like Chainsaw >and Sawed-off Shotgun. It simply isn't a strike. My fault. Serves me right for not having the card in front of me. :-) Gary

Andre Beaulieu

Gary Schwartz (schw...@symcom.math.uiuc.edu) writes: > There is only one retainer (that I know of) that actually strikes, the > Ghoul Retainer. The rest, such as Wolf Companion, say "does X damage" which > as far as I can tell is NOT considered a strike, but merely an effect of Hmmm...Then we would get weird things like not being able to use "skin of steel" to soak it, since it's not a strike... > the retainer. The Rulebook is unclear about dodges; it says "... it > negates the effect of THE opponent's strike that round." This clearly We've had other problems with the dodge interpretations...I maintained that first strikes could not be dodged, but the way dodge is described in the book seems to go against that. I had to yield because the whole group was against me on that one... > assumes that there is only one opponent, but the Ghoul Retainer says that > it may strike with hands or a weapon. I would have to agree with your > interpretation on this one - there's absolutely no way to dodge both > the vampire & the Ghoul at the same time. Don't forget the golden rule: "where the cards contradict the book, the cards win". We had all kinds of arguments about retainers in the past, one of the most proheminent being: "at what range is that specific retainer ?" The book says that all retainers are at long range. However, you have the ghoul retainer sitting there, being able to do hand strikes...Hmmm...Also, Wolf Companion and Murder of Crows do the same thing, except that the dmg for MoC is listed as 1R. Why specify unless the WC is in close range ? I really had a hard time with it, but I finally got my group to accept that the ghoul retainer and the wolf companion are at close range rather than at long range. What do you guys think ? -Paul-Andre

Stephen Beaulieu

In article <DC3r5...@freenet.carleton.ca>, bt...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Andre Beaulieu) wrote: > We've had other problems with the dodge interpretations...I maintained > that first strikes could not be dodged, but the way dodge is described in > the book seems to go against that. I had to yield because the whole group > was against me on that one... I don't necessarily agree with this ruling either, but the Design Team has ruled that a dodge negates a first strike. > > assumes that there is only one opponent, but the Ghoul Retainer says that > > it may strike with hands or a weapon. I would have to agree with your > > interpretation on this one - there's absolutely no way to dodge both > > the vampire & the Ghoul at the same time. > > Don't forget the golden rule: "where the cards contradict the book, the > cards win". We had all kinds of arguments about retainers in the past, one > of the most proheminent being: "at what range is that specific retainer ?" > The book says that all retainers are at long range. However, you have the > ghoul retainer sitting there, being able to do hand strikes...Hmmm...Also, > Wolf Companion and Murder of Crows do the same thing, except that the dmg > for MoC is listed as 1R. Why specify unless the WC is in close range ? I > really had a hard time with it, but I finally got my group to accept that > the ghoul retainer and the wolf companion are at close range rather than > at long range. What do you guys think ? > > -Paul-Andre Well, the rules do not say that the retainers are at long range, it merely say that to damage them you need to deliver long range damage. (Kind of a fine point, but that's the way it is) Each retainer that inflicts damage specifies whther the damage they inflict is long range or not. The Wolf Companion and the Ghoul retainer do close range damage. The MoC can damage at close or long range (and it's 1R can be used to damage a retainer) and a Ghoul Retainer with a long range weapon can do long range damage. If your group has a set house rule that the Ghoul Retainer and Wolf Companion are damageable by non-long range damage, then that's okay. But the rules state that R damage only affects retainers. One way to think about it might be that the combat isn't exactly hand to hand slugging it out, but could be intrigue and backstabbing and the like decreasing the influence of the vamp (ie doing damage) Well, it's a way to look at it. Hope this helps stephen

James C. Clover

This is a follow-up to my prior post, but I started a new one for purposes of subject line and readability. I have been reading a lot lately about the new card backs. So far, I have only heard arguments for or against (mostly against). Did anybody ever stop to consider alternatives? How hard would it be to leave the American (read Western-culture) release as-is and issue a different release to the middle-east or anywhere else that takes offense to the term "Jyhad"? This may be an oversimplification of a complicated issue, but I'd like to know about this. By the way, I'm borrowing my friend's account for the moment, so the e-mail address in the title isn't mine. Simeon simeo...@bbs.fullcoll.edu P.S. When I try to post a message, I get a big warning telling me that my post will cost thousands of dollars. What's up with that? How else am I supposed to post? Any answers would be appreciated. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | James C. Clover | Programmers don't die, | with Disclamer; | | jcl...@netcom.com | they just GOSUB without | use Disclamer; | | Northrop-Grumman Corp | RETURN. | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

James C. Clover

Hello, everyone. I've been playing Jyhad for about a year, I think, but I am new to usenet. I have spent the last couple days catching up on the last 3-400 posts (I did a lot of skimming and skipping). I noticed that everybody and his cousin has an opinion about this enigmatic clan, so I thought I'd offer my own thoughts, as well: The unique strength of the Nosferatu is their ability to deprive other Methulelahs of their earthly possessions. They have both Shattering Blow and Canine Horde at their disposal. They also have stealth with which they can pull off Arson and Rampage. Plus, they can use Disguised Weapon to bring out their own guns easily, with which they can shoot retainers. I have on multiple ocassions found myself at the mercy of a big gun deck. A good anti-permanent Nos. deck could basically neutralize it. Anyway, this is my first post, so if I have committed some kind of faux pas, please let me know. [ quoted text not captured ]

CurtAdams

Simeon (simeo...@bbs.fullcoll.edu) writes: >I have been reading a lot lately about the new card backs. So far, I >have only heard arguments for or against (mostly against). Did anybody >ever stop to consider alternatives? How hard would it be to leave the >American (read Western-culture) release as-is and issue a different >release to the middle-east or anywhere else that takes offense to the >term "Jyhad"? I'd be delighted, and WotC would then be able to sell a moderate number of V:tES cards as collectors' items in the West. Look at the market for foreign-language Magic. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

Shane Travis

Sorry to be finicky, but there is a niggling grammatical thing that almost totally changes the meaning of a sentence in this post... Stephen Beaulieu (hi...@mail.utexas.edu) wrote: : But the rules state that R damage only affects retainers. What the rules state is that only R damage affects retainers. Read your way, if I have ranged damage and you have no retainers, you are totally safe. I am guessing that is not what you meant... :-) The rules say that if you have retainers and I have no ranged damage, _they_ are totally safe. Just trying to head off confusion... Shane H.W. Travis | Be not forgetful to entertain strangers, for tra...@duke.usask.ca | thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -- Hebrews 13:2

Stephen Beaulieu

In article <3utrbb$t...@tribune.usask.ca>, tra...@duke.usask.ca (Shane Travis) wrote: > Just trying to head off confusion... > > Shane H.W. Travis | Be not forgetful to entertain strangers, for > tra...@duke.usask.ca | thereby some have entertained angels unawares. > Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -- Hebrews 13:2 Thanks Shane. I knew what I meant, but it's always nice to know that someone else is out there making sure that I am clearly saying what I mean. In order to damage a retainer in com,bat, you need to inflict R damage. That a little clearer? stephen

James C. Clover

>>I have been reading a lot lately about the new card backs. So far, I >>have only heard arguments for or against (mostly against). Did anybody >>ever stop to consider alternatives? How hard would it be to leave the >>American (read Western-culture) release as-is and issue a different >>release to the middle-east or anywhere else that takes offense to the >>term "Jyhad"? > >I'd be delighted, and WotC would then be able to sell a moderate number of >V:tES cards as collectors' items in the West. Look at the market for >foreign-language Magic. I would be very interested to hear what Wizards has to say abou this. Has it been considered? Is it feasable? Is it too late to change the current policy? I have already sent somthing similar to the above to Tom Wylie via netmail (by mistake; I didn't know what I was doing -- I'm still new to usenet). If you are reading this, Mr. Wylie, and you have replied to me via netmail, I have no idea how to retrieve such. Please repost on the newsgroup. Thanks. -- Simeon ---------------------------- simeo...@bbs.fullcoll.edu

Thomas R Wylie

Having a "US Jyhad" and a "foreign V:TES" wouldn't solve much of anything. First, if the foreign V:TES is available over here then the US Jyhad is available over there, and we haven't dodged that part of the problem at all. Second, the whole thing about mixing card backs would come up the first time somebody buys French V:TES (or whatever) because it's cool, and then plays the mixed deck in a game. People wouldn't be as inclined to care about the card mixing, since it would only apply if you wanted to use foreign cards, but you can bet people would be doing it in tournaments, if nowhere else. Third, you can bet that there would be mixups at the factory, and there would be Jyhad cards with V:TES backs sent out, and vice versa, and now we're looking at either writing those cards off as collector's items (and ticking off any player who happened to get them) and/or getting back into mixing the card backs together. Finally, it's generally preferable for a product to have a uniform look across several translations. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Thomas R Wylie

James C. Clover <jcl...@netcom.com> wrote: >I would be very interested to hear what Wizards has to say abou this. >Has it been considered? Is it feasable? Is it too late to change the >current policy? For better or for worse, it is far too late to change the policy. [ quoted text not captured ]

Errol T

Keep in mind that the rules also state that they controller also gets to decide who takes the ranged damage, thats why Charnas is such alittle jerk.

Stephen Beaulieu

In article <3uvu0p$5...@bert.compusmart.ab.ca>, Errol T <etre...@compusmart.ab.ca> wrote: : Keep in mind that the rules also state that they controller also gets to : decide who takes the ranged damage, thats why Charnas is such alittle : jerk. Just to clarify this, the Meth of the minion dealing the damage decides whether or not to deal the R damage to the retainer or the vamp. The controller of the minion taking the damage or the controller of the retainer in question have no choice in the matter. For example: Badger is in combat with Ozmo and JS Simmons (Ozmo's retainer) Badger uses Aid from Bats to deal 1 R damage. Badger's controller decides who the damage is dealt to Ozmo or JS. If Ozmo opted to dodge rather than take the damage, Badger could still choose to deal the damage to JS. Hope this helps stephen

Montri Chew

In <3uvjp1$b...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes: >Having a "US Jyhad" and a "foreign V:TES" wouldn't solve much of anything. >First, if the foreign V:TES is available over here then the US Jyhad is >available over there, and we haven't dodged that part of the problem at all. >Second, the whole thing about mixing card backs would come up the first time >somebody buys French V:TES (or whatever) because it's cool, and then plays >the mixed deck in a game. People wouldn't be as inclined to care about the >card mixing, since it would only apply if you wanted to use foreign cards, >but you can bet people would be doing it in tournaments, if nowhere else. *** Ah, so you admit that mixed decks shouldn't be allowed in tournaments :) >Third, you can bet that there would be mixups at the factory, and there >would be Jyhad cards with V:TES backs sent out, and vice versa, and now we're >looking at either writing those cards off as collector's items (and ticking >off any player who happened to get them) and/or getting back into mixing >the card backs together. Finally, it's generally preferable for a product to >have a uniform look across several translations. > > >Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for >aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc. *** So, is WotC going to do anything for the people who bought alot of Jyhad cards and don't want to play with mixed decks ? If you're changing the card backs for moral reasons then you should also do the morally right thing for the customers who supported Jyhad. You know, I really don't want to boycott VTES and future non-MTG games from WotC, but WotC has to do something (which does not necessarilly has to cost you a fortune - you just have to be creative) for us. WotC used to show that it cared for its customers when it made mistakes by doing such things as the Antiquities buy-back program and the Legends uncommon cards swap program. Please think about it. ::: Montri Chew :::

Stephen Beaulieu

In article <3v1399$p...@bert.compusmart.ab.ca>, Errol T <etre...@compusmart.ab.ca> wrote: : Yes but the controller would be the onr dealing the ranged damage, why : would the controller put Charnas into play on my vampire only to kill him : with ranged damage in a later combat. Unless I can somehow do ranged : damage to my own vampire its hard to kill him unless you have control : weather or Lady Mariel. : : Errol True, Charnas is particularly annoying. And as Charnas' controller I would not want to kill him (unless there were other factors at stake). I was simply trying to clarify that damage to a retainer must be ranged and that it is the damage-dealer that decides where to apply the damage. I wasn't trying to make a point about Charnas. Just trying to help stephen

L. Scott Johnson

Gary Schwartz <schw...@symcom.math.uiuc.edu> writes: >sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: >>The target is named when the strike is declared. Badger couldn't >>suddenly switch targets just because Ozmo dodged. If badger names >>JS as her target, (assuming Badger is the acting vampire), Ozmo >>could then attack (with hands or whatever) with impunity - rather than >>waste a dodge. >I don't see that anywhere in the rule book. Do you have a reference for >this? I mean, it makes sense to me, but I can't find it. The rulebook is (surprise!) unclear - and can easily be read as a post-dodge choice (the section on Minion Actions: Employ Retainer is the only source of information on directing R damage to retainers). None of the DTRs nor FAQs address the issue, either. But, it is Tom's opinion, both is conversation and in his review of the Jyhad Rules' Outline (maintained by myself): D. Strikes. [15.1] 1. Minions announce their strikes and, for ranged attacks, the targets. a. Acting Minion announces Strike and Target before Blocking Minion does. b. If the Acting Minion's Strike is: End Combat, Combat ends immediately. The Blocking Minion does not choose a strike. [DTR] c. Non-ranged offensive strikes can only target the opposing Minion. d. Ranged offensive strikes can target either the opposing Minion or one of his Retainers. [12.3.1 p22] 3. Resolving Strikes in the following order: [15.3] a. Strike: End Combat is resolved as soon as it is anounced. b. Strike: Dodge is resolved as soon as it is anounced. [DTR] NOTE: Damage directed at Retainers cannot be avoided by Strike: Dodge. c. Strike: First Strike effects are resolved. (resolve steps 4-7 before moving on to step d). d. Other Strike effects are resolved. (resolve steps 4-7) ---------- Sorry I don't have any more official-looking reference. [ quoted text not captured ]

L. Scott Johnson

hi...@mail.utexas.edu (Stephen Beaulieu) writes: >For example: Badger is in combat with Ozmo and JS Simmons (Ozmo's >retainer) Badger uses Aid from Bats to deal 1 R damage. Badger's >controller decides who the damage is dealt to Ozmo or JS. If Ozmo opted >to dodge rather than take the damage, Badger could still choose to deal >the damage to JS. The target is named when the strike is declared. Badger couldn't suddenly switch targets just because Ozmo dodged. If badger names JS as her target, (assuming Badger is the acting vampire), Ozmo could then attack (with hands or whatever) with impunity - rather than waste a dodge. [ quoted text not captured ]

Joseph Cochran

In article <3uvjp1$b...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote: >the card backs together. Finally, it's generally preferable for a product to >have a uniform look across several translations. I really didn't want to get into this, but this BEGS to be said: It's generally preferable for a product to have a uniform look across several printings, too. | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | js...@vt.edu | ** csi...@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "There. That should do nicely. After all, we don't want the locals to see grannies clipped to trash bins by their teeth, do we?" -- Mr. Gone

Gary Schwartz

sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: >The target is named when the strike is declared. Badger couldn't >suddenly switch targets just because Ozmo dodged. If badger names >JS as her target, (assuming Badger is the acting vampire), Ozmo >could then attack (with hands or whatever) with impunity - rather than >waste a dodge. I don't see that anywhere in the rule book. Do you have a reference for this? I mean, it makes sense to me, but I can't find it. Gary

e Code Control

Errol T (etre...@compusmart.ab.ca) wrote: : Yes but the controller would be the onr dealing the ranged damage, why : would the controller put Charnas into play on my vampire only to kill him : with ranged damage in a later combat. Unless I can somehow do ranged : damage to my own vampire its hard to kill him unless you have control : weather or Lady Mariel. So what are the ways that you can get rid of Charnas? So far, I have seen Lady Mariel, Control Weather, Cryptic Mission, or (the one I use) Body of Sun. Can anyone think of others? I would like to know because we have one fellow who seems to get Charnas out on me all the time... :-( -- Terry Wright | "Diplomacy is the art of letting Tww...@cs.usask.ca | someone else have your way." Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | - Danielle Vare Canada

CurtAdams

Gary Schwartz <schw...@symcom.math.uiuc.edu> writes: >sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: >>Gary Schwartz <schw...@symcom.math.uiuc.edu> writes a bunch of nonsense. >>The ghoul retainer doesn't strike either. No damage from retainers may be >>dodged. No damage directed at retainers may be dodged. > >>Note that the weapon the ghoul uses is still "used" for things like Chainsaw >>and Sawed-off Shotgun. It simply isn't a strike. >My fault. Serves me right for not having the card in front of me. :-) No, serves you right for HAVING the card in front of you. Ghould retainer says "can strike". Now in the language most of us speak, that means a choice of one of 2 things. 1) Strike. 2) Don't strike (and do nothing) The DT has ruled that it actually means "must nonstrike". That's even more surreal than the Rotschreck ruling. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

L. Scott Johnson

tww...@cs.usask.ca (e Code Control) writes: >Errol T (etre...@compusmart.ab.ca) wrote: >: Yes but the controller would be the onr dealing the ranged damage, why >: would the controller put Charnas into play on my vampire only to kill him >: with ranged damage in a later combat. Unless I can somehow do ranged >: damage to my own vampire its hard to kill him unless you have control >: weather or Lady Mariel. > So what are the ways that you can get rid of Charnas? So far, >I have seen Lady Mariel, Control Weather, Cryptic Mission, >or (the one I use) Body of Sun. Body of sun won't do - since Charnas cannot be damaged by it's host Vampire. From: aa...@hal.COM (Tom Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.deckmaster Subject: NEW: Rulings summary for Jyhad Date: 9 Nov 1994 13:11:24 -0800 Charnas the Imp: Does nothing to an empty vampire which untaps in torpor. Cannot be damaged by host, but does not stop host from using effects which would normally damage it. For example, the host can use Body of Sun, but would not damage Charnas as a result. [ quoted text not captured ]

Chris Rhodes

jcl...@netcom.com (James C. Clover) writes: >Hello, everyone. I've been playing Jyhad for about a year, I think, but >I am new to usenet. >The unique strength of the Nosferatu is their ability to deprive other >Methulelahs of their earthly possessions. They have both Shattering Blow >and Canine Horde at their disposal. They also have stealth with which they >can pull off Arson and Rampage. Plus, they can use Disguised Weapon to >bring out their own guns easily, with which they can shoot retainers. >I have on multiple ocassions found myself at the mercy of a big gun >deck. A good anti-permanent Nos. deck could basically neutralize it. >Anyway, this is my first post, so if I have committed some kind of faux >pas, please let me know. >-- Greetings and welcome. The net is kind of a roller-coaster right now with the Jyhad/Vampire: the Eternal Struggle thing going, so it's nice to actually see a response about the game... I completely agree about the Nosferatu. I think they are the most over looked clan in the game. All the points you made were right on. The Nosferatu have just enough intercept (Raven Spy, Sport Bike, KRCG News Radio, Sup. Cat's Guidance) to stop predatory Malkavians. Potence to help in combat once they intercept, Disguised Weapon for equipping with guns, and Animalism to untap again. The Nosferatu deck I made for combat focused on ranged combat. I used Aid From Bats, Thrown Gate, Thrown Sewer Lid, Well Aimed Car and Behind You, Patagia Flaps and IR Goggles to get to range. I also threw in a couple RPG Launchers just for good measure. Then I relied on Magnums, Sawed off Shotguns, Deer Rifles, etc... It worked really well. See ya later... Chris rho...@medicine.wustl.edu

Brent Burkholder

In article <3v3gnm$5...@tribune.usask.ca>, e Code Control <tww...@cs.usask.ca> wrote: >Errol T (etre...@compusmart.ab.ca) wrote: > >: Yes but the controller would be the onr dealing the ranged damage, why >: would the controller put Charnas into play on my vampire only to kill him >: with ranged damage in a later combat. Unless I can somehow do ranged >: damage to my own vampire its hard to kill him unless you have control >: weather or Lady Mariel. > > So what are the ways that you can get rid of Charnas? So far, >I have seen Lady Mariel, Control Weather, Cryptic Mission, >or (the one I use) Body of Sun. >Can anyone think of others? I would like to know because we have one >fellow who seems to get Charnas out on me all the time... :-( making a deal with your prey to kill it off with ranged damage. :) (actually, when I did it, the deal was with my predator.) -- ---------------------- ------------------------------------------------- Brent Burkholder < INTJ < "It's too bad she won't live, br...@beast.amd.com > > but then again, who does?" - Bladerunner ----------------------- -------------------------------------------------

James C. Clover

>> So what are the ways that you can get rid of Charnas? So far, >>I have seen Lady Mariel, Control Weather, Cryptic Mission, >>or (the one I use) Body of Sun. >>Can anyone think of others? I would like to know because we have one >>fellow who seems to get Charnas out on me all the time... :-( Unfortunately, according to one of the FAQs, Charnas cannot be harmed by Body of Sun (assuming the victim is the one playing it), since Charnas's card specifically states that he cannot be harmed by minion he is placed on. I imagine the same should apply to Control Weather. However, Mariel, Cryptic Mission, or a merciful player should work nicely. Otherwise, wait until the victim vampire goes to torpor, diablerize him with another vampire (as long as you have political advantage), then you get to find a new home for Charnas. -- Simeon ---------------------------- simeo...@bbs.fullcoll.edu