"Before Range"

Just a pair of quick questions: #1: Just to doublecheck, but "at the beginning of" is treated the same as "before range" right? Thus Weather Control, Concealed Weapon, and Shotgun Ritual are played with the same timing as Torn Signpost and Carrion Crows? #2: I'm just getting picky on the semantics but: if the range is already established (via Cailean, Shadow Step, or Storm Sewers), does this mean you cannot play any cards that are "played before range is chosen/determined?" I know that that clause is supposed to simply tell you that it's played before the manuevers segment, but if you take a strict interpretation, it seems that they'd be unplayable? Thanks! Halcyan 2

Halcyan 2 wrote: > > Just a pair of quick questions: > > #1: Just to doublecheck, but "at the beginning of" is treated the same as > "before range" right? Thus Weather Control, Concealed Weapon, and Shotgun > Ritual are played with the same timing as Torn Signpost and Carrion Crows? Yes. > #2: I'm just getting picky on the semantics but: if the range is already > established (via Cailean, Shadow Step, or Storm Sewers), does this mean you > cannot play any cards that are "played before range is chosen/determined?" I > know that that clause is supposed to simply tell you that it's played before > the manuevers segment, but if you take a strict interpretation, it seems that > they'd be unplayable? No. If "Determine range" is to be skipped, then cards played "before range" are then played "before strikes" - that is, at their normal time: 1. enter combat 2. before range 3. determine range - might be skipped if something has already set range 4. before strikes (Immortal Grapple, e.g.) 5. choose strikes 6. resolve strikes etc. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/