Some Doubts [LSJ]

In article <35b29...@news.ip.pt>, Luis P. Duarte <Luis....@ip.pt> wrote: >I've heard some different answers for the next questions, >and now i'm confused... :( >1. Wolf Claws is played Before or After the strike? Wolf Claws may be played at any time during the round; it will only affect the current strike if it is played *before the strikes resolve*. That is, one can wait until after the opposing minion declares strike (assuming the Claw is to be played by the acting minion) to play Claws. Once damage is being resolved (i.e., damage prevention used or blood expended to heal) it's too late. >2. Can Wolf Claws be played After the strike to turn the >damage "done" to aggravated? Yes, providing it's done before the strike resolves. >3. By the new rules (7/7), what happens in the follow/ situation: > - Minion A has 2 blood on him. > - Minion B inflicts 3 aggravated damage on minion A. Normal damage is healed by burning one blood for each point of damage. If no blood is available to be burned, the vampire has unhealed damage (and goes to torpor). Aggro damage bypasses this -- the first point of aggro inflicts unhealed damage (no blood is burnt, and the vampire goes to torpor). Aggro in excess of the first point demands the burning of a blood to avoid destruction of the vampire. In the example above: Minion A (a vampire) takes 3 aggravated. The first point bypasses the normal healing system and inflicts unhealed damage; no blood is burnt, but the vampire is slated for torpor. The second and third points each demand the burning of a blood to avoid destruction. Minion A goes to torpor, empty. Under the Jyhad aggro rules, X+2 damage, at least 2 of which were aggravated, was required to burn a vampire. There were additional 'packeting' issues relevant to the source(s) of the damage that I won't go into here. The VtES aggro rules required X+1 damage, at least 1 of which must be aggravated, to burn a vampire. The 7/7 aggro rules require X+2 damage, at least 1 of which must be aggravated, to burn a vampire. In the three cases above, X is the amount of blood on the vampire in question. >4. What happens if Minion A prevents all the damage? Nothing, as usual. >5. What happens if Minion A prevents 1 point of damage? Minion A takes 2 aggravated, the first of which inflicts unhealed damage (and requires no blood to be burnt), the second of which requires a blood to be burnt to prevent destruction; Minion A goes to torpor with 1 blood. >6. the same, but prevents 2 points of damage? Minion A takes 1 point of aggravated damage, which inflicts unhealed damage. Minion A goes to torpor with 2 blood. >7. When i play a Political Action card (as an action), can i play >another political card to gain an additional vote? No. gomi hope this helps

I've heard some different answers for the next questions, and now i'm confused... :( 1. Wolf Claws is played Before or After the strike? 2. Can Wolf Claws be played After the strike to turn the damage "done" to aggravated? 3. By the new rules (7/7), what happens in the follow/ situation: - Minion A has 2 blood on him. - Minion B inflicts 3 aggravated damage on minion A. 4. What happens if Minion A prevents all the damage? 5. What happens if Minion A prevents 1 point of damage? 6. the same, but prevents 2 points of damage? 7. When i play a Political Action card (as an action), can i play another political card to gain an additional vote? Thanks! .- Luis....@ip.pt

> I've heard some different answers for the next questions, > and now i'm confused... :( > > 1. Wolf Claws is played Before or After the strike? > Yes. That is, Wolf Claws may be played any time before the strike "happens." Note that each player chooses a strike before either strike resolves, so you may wait to play Wolf Claws until after your opponent has chosen a strike. You may *not,* however, wait until after they've chosen whether or not to prevent the damage, because by that time the strike is resolving. > 2. Can Wolf Claws be played After the strike to turn the > damage "done" to aggravated? > After the strike? No. After strikes have been declared? Yes. The key to this is that strikes don't happen until after both players have declared their strikes. > 3. By the new rules (7/7), what happens in the follow/ situation: The rules aren't new. They're the old rules (Jyhad), without the strange things the rules teams read into those rules. They are actually very simple. The new (VTES) rules allowed a single point of damage (agg) to both send a vampire to torpor *and* cause a blood to be lost. That didn't make sense and has now been corrected. > - Minion A has 2 blood on him. > - Minion B inflicts 3 aggravated damage on minion A. > Minion A goes to topor with 0 blood. > 4. What happens if Minion A prevents all the damage? Duh... it's prevented. Nothing happens. > 5. What happens if Minion A prevents 1 point of damage? He goes to torpor with 1 blood. > 6. the same, but prevents 2 points of damage? > He just goes to torpor. > 7. When i play a Political Action card (as an action), can i play > another political card to gain an additional vote? > No. -Chris

In article <35B2D52C...@cco.caltech.edu>, Chris Berger <ber...@cco.caltech.edu> wrote: > > I've heard some different answers for the next questions, > > and now i'm confused... :( > > > > 1. Wolf Claws is played Before or After the strike? > > > Yes. That is, Wolf Claws may be played any time before the strike > "happens." Note that each player chooses a strike before either strike > resolves, so you may wait to play Wolf Claws until after your opponent > has chosen a strike. You may *not,* however, wait until after they've > chosen whether or not to prevent the damage, because by that time the > strike is resolving. > > > 2. Can Wolf Claws be played After the strike to turn the > > damage "done" to aggravated? > > > After the strike? No. After strikes have been declared? Yes. The key > to this is that strikes don't happen until after both players have > declared their strikes. > > > 3. By the new rules (7/7), what happens in the follow/ situation: > The rules aren't new. They're the old rules (Jyhad), without the > strange things the rules teams read into those rules. They are actually > very simple. The new (VTES) rules allowed a single point of damage > (agg) to both send a vampire to torpor *and* cause a blood to be lost. > That didn't make sense and has now been corrected. But LSJ stated something strange: If a vampire (w/ zero blood on him) takes 1 normal and 1 aggravated damage, he is burned. So it's not the old Jyhad rules, where you weren't burned unless you took 2 aggravated. Is this confusing? For me it is. I would like the old Jyhad rules with the fix that all damage is dealt simultanously *and* stacked (not packed). > > > 7. When i play a Political Action card (as an action), can i play > > another political card to gain an additional vote? > > > No. I'd say yes, since in the rule-book (V:TES) it says: "...any methuselah..." This includes the acting meth. > > -Chris > -Carl -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum

Luis P. Duarte wrote: > > I've heard some different answers for the next questions, > and now i'm confused... :( > > 1. Wolf Claws is played Before or After the strike? After the strike is announced, before strike resolution. > 2. Can Wolf Claws be played After the strike to turn the > damage "done" to aggravated? "Played after strike resolution?" No. "Played after strike announcement, before strike resolution?" Yes. > 3. By the new rules (7/7), what happens in the follow/ situation: > - Minion A has 2 blood on him. > - Minion B inflicts 3 aggravated damage on minion A. Assuming minion A is a vampire: 1st point - cannot be healed. Vampire has unhealed damage. 2nd point - done to a wounded vampire, requires the loss of a blood. 3rd point - done to a wounded vampire, requires the loss of a blood Vampire A has zero blood and unhealed damage - he goes to torpor. > 4. What happens if Minion A prevents all the damage? The damage is prevented. Nothing else happens. > 5. What happens if Minion A prevents 1 point of damage? Two points remain unprevented: 1st point - cannot be healed. Vampire has unhealed damage. 2nd point - done to a wounded vampire, requires the loss of a blood. Vampire A has one blood and unhealed damage - he goes to torpor. > 6. the same, but prevents 2 points of damage? One point remains unprevented: 1st point - cannot be healed. Vampire has unhealed damage. Vampire A has two blood and unhealed damage - he goes to torpor. > 7. When i play a Political Action card (as an action), can i play > another political card to gain an additional vote? No, you can only use one PA (per referendum) to gain a vote. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Searchable database of official card text, errata, and rulings: http://deckserver.net/cgi-deckserver/rulemonger.cgi/powersearch

In article <6ov1fi$saj$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <CPilh...@bhak12.ac.at> wrote: >In article <35B2D52C...@cco.caltech.edu>, >But LSJ stated something strange: If a vampire (w/ zero blood on him) >takes 1 normal and 1 aggravated damage, he is burned. So it's not the >old Jyhad rules, where you weren't burned unless you took 2 aggravated. >Is this confusing? For me it is. I would like the old Jyhad rules with >the fix that all damage is dealt simultanously *and* stacked (not packed). To restate what I'd said earlier in the thread: Under Jyhad agg rules, burning a vampire with X blood required X+2 damage, at least 2 of which had to be aggravated and *from a single source* (packeting). Under the pre-7/7 VtES agg rules, burning a vampire with X blood required X+1 damage, at least 1 of which had to be aggravated (no packeting). Under the current agg rules, burning a vampire with X blood requires X+2 damage, at least 1 of which must be aggravated (again, no packeting). IMO, the current rules balance elegantly between the (overpowered) pre-7/7 agg rules and the (packeted, rules-artifact-generating [cf. Basilia vs. Undead Persistence*]) Jyhad agg rules. LSJ, can you confirm/deny/amend the above? gomi * for those unaware of this artifact, Basilia (agg hand damage) vs. a vampire playing Undead Persistence resulted in the Persistent minion taking effectively no damage from each strike (due to 'packeting,' where the first point of damage in each 'packet' did not require expenditure of blood). This created a situation where normal damage was better to have than aggravated damage, and bothered many people. Packeting sucked.

In article <35b3e540...@news.mindspring.com>, Celt <tir*spam*na...@mindspring.com> wrote: >LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> wrote: >>No, you can only use one PA (per referendum) to gain a vote. >I don't understand. If the other players can play a PA as an >assertion of their influence (ie. playing the PA as a vote not an >action) why can't the player controlling the minion? Playing it as an action *does* gain you the vote, y'see, hence you've already gained 1 vote from 1 PA card this political action. >The PA played by >the minion is just that, played by the minion. Why is it that the >player controlling the minion is without the same political influence >as the other players? 'Real' world considerations are sticky in a discussion of game mechanics, but it can be argued that you *are* exerting your influence -- through your minions, and the 'unsubtlety' of the other Methuselahs' direct- burning of PAs for votes results in their 'sacrifice' of the ability to call the actual vote on the burned PA later. Regardless, the rule is balanced -- and certainly doesn't limit non-presence vote decks, or vote decks in general, to 'direct-damage' votes (more on this elsewhere in the thread). >I would suggest that each player can use one PA in any vote. This is the current rule; the PA used to call the vote counts as your one vote gained from a PA. gomi

LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> wrote: > >> 7. When i play a Political Action card (as an action), can i play >> another political card to gain an additional vote? > >No, you can only use one PA (per referendum) to gain a vote. > I don't understand. If the other players can play a PA as an assertion of their influence (ie. playing the PA as a vote not an action) why can't the player controlling the minion? The PA played by the minion is just that, played by the minion. Why is it that the player controlling the minion is without the same political influence as the other players? I would suggest that each player can use one PA in any vote. This gives the acting player a little advantage, without overkill on the vote pushing. Conor [ quoted text not captured ]

go...@best.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote: > To restate what I'd said earlier in the thread: > > Under Jyhad agg rules, burning a vampire with X blood required X+2 damage, > at least 2 of which had to be aggravated and *from a single source* > (packeting). > > Under the pre-7/7 VtES agg rules, burning a vampire with X blood required > X+1 damage, at least 1 of which had to be aggravated (no packeting). > > Under the current agg rules, burning a vampire with X blood requires X+2 > damage, at least 1 of which must be aggravated (again, no packeting). > > LSJ, can you confirm/deny/amend the above? Confirmed. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Searchable database of official card text, errata, and rulings: http://deckserver.net/cgi-deckserver/rulemonger.cgi/powersearch -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- [ quoted text not captured ]

tir*spam*na...@mindspring.com wrote: > LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> wrote: > >No, you can only use one PA (per referendum) to gain a vote. > > I don't understand. If the other players can play a PA as an > assertion of their influence (ie. playing the PA as a vote not an > action) why can't the player controlling the minion? The PA played by > the minion is just that, played by the minion. Why is it that the The political action is called by the minion (vampire), but the vote gained is not from the minion - it is from the Methusleah only [TOM 960126]. > player controlling the minion is without the same political influence > as the other players? She is - every Methuselah gets no more than one vote from political actions. Whether played (by the acting vampire) or burned (by the Methuselah). > I would suggest that each player can use one PA in any vote. That is the current rule. The acting Methuselah can use the PA that called the referendum to gain a vote. If the referendum was called without the use of a PA (to burn the Elysium, for instance), then the acting Methuselah can still use one PA for a vote - she can burn one from her hand. [ quoted text not captured ]