OFFICIAL VEKN CLAN VENTRUE NEWSLETTER Vol.II No.11 August.2001 **Special Awards issue**

OFFICIAL VEKN CLAN VENTRUE NEWSLETTER Vol.II No.11 August.2001 - **Special Awards issue** Apologies for the late newsletter but my news server (pubnews) went to the wall and it's taken me a bit of time to sort a new one. Got me a new one done now so here goes... INTRODUCTION AGITATION NATION - Metagame analysis "you're not from round these parts are you ?" DECK OF THE MONTH #1 - Arika ! DECK OF THE MONTH #2 - 'We own you' by Cameron Domer ________________________________________________ INTRODUCTION Greetings from the basement of the Ventrue Headquarters, Yes that's right, I 'm down here again in my comfortable rocking chair, seeking shelter from the crossfire up on the surface. Times a' changing sports fans, the increase in popularity and subsequent cross-cultural altercations at tourneys are becoming commonplace. Bound to happen I suppose, doesn't make it any the easier to deal with though. The post Final Nights game seems to have settled down pretty well, the independents have asserted a decent foothold in the ladder of power and influence and the obviously useful / powerful cards have been established (but not abused yet). A rare treat this month with a 'special award' issue following the Watford E.C. qualifier. Two submitted decks this month for your delight - the now 'infamous' Turbo Arika deck and Cameron's Weenie Ventrue Hostile deck from US Gencon. There has been a lot of passionate traffic on the group lately regarding collusion, table dealing and national differences. I'll cover some of the main points in Agitation Nation this month and attempt to reach some non-confrontational conclusions (might have to use a bit of Fortitude there :o). ________________________________________________ AGITATION NATION - "you're not from 'round these parts are you ?" Metagame analysis is one of the most unpredictable parts of VTES. Pre-tourney predictions are a tricky thing to get right at the best of times. All it takes is a few more combat / vote etc. decks than 'normal' to make a tourney that players describe as heavy combat, heavy votes etc. As metagames shift, decks change and the whole game swings one way or the other. Everyone's interpretation of the game is different, as national playstyles come into contact more often, the sorts of 'cultural' differences we have seen recently will become more frequent. The French guys who made the trek across to the Watford tourney (all good, respected players in their own right) were taken aback by the level of dealmaking and were not used to that 'type' of game. We over here in the UK were conversely not used to the purely prey-focus style of play. This is not to say that either game is better or 'more right' but it was interesting to see on the one hand - the French guys encouraging prey-focus around the table and on the other the UK players typically looking to the whole table, trying to balance and use the other players to further their own needs. Both styles have obvious (and not so obvious) advantages and disadvantages and I argue that both have a place in the game. The sort of situations that compound this difference is the 'combat decks sitting together' scenario and wall / bloat decks that don't apply a lot of pressure to their prey. These type of decks use lay low tactics to appear innocuous (which can be frustrating for players committed to the predator / prey relationship) until enough resources (vamps, pool, cards etc.) have been accumulated to make a big push. On a parallel with the above, the UK environment used to be shaken up by a totally focussed deck. The game has levelled out a lot to handle focus in the last 6 months but previous to that '100 % prey dedicated' decks caused radical metagame shifts and a lot of surprise ousts. Historically, the UK game does see a lot of shifts, you can see a S+B / Vote bias at one tourney and a combat bias at the next a week later. I guess this is one reason why the semi-toolbox* deck has become popular over here. Reducing the Stone Paper Scissors effect to a minimum and still allowing the deck to perform to a desired level is a real artform in deckbuilding. It will be interesting to see what bias the Australian game takes, I should get a fair idea as I'm playing in 3-4 different cities as well as in New Zealand so I shall report back on my return in December. With a lot more international tourneys springing up, players will have to start a new level of metagame analysis. Making the trip to a foreign tourney is often a real eye-opening experience and whilst it can be incredibly frustrating, a lot can be learnt from different playstyles. As somebody (might have been Bruce Lee :o) a lot wiser than me once said - "The best style is no style at all" If you have the ability to switch your skills to suit the environment and take the best parts of every type of game you are IMO well on the way to becoming a true master.. * by semi-toolbox I mean a deck that has a central focus but also incorporates a variable amount of multi-use situational handling cards or elements. _____________________________________________ DECK OF THE MONTH #1 - Arika ! Pretty much HAS to be Philippe Lang's nuclear power Arika cycle deck, that it's able jockey Francois has kindly mailed to me. Playing against it and pulling it apart after the fact has certainly taken my card analysis and deck building and to a higher (or lower) level. Not since the days of old skool pre 7/7 Fame, ToRIII and Return to Innocence have I been so scared of one particular deck. Looking back it is not quite as all encompassing as I first thought and is 'fairly' easy to stamp on IF (big if) you get it soon enough. If however you don't mess it up early in turn 3-4 then the whole table is dead. Yep, I'd call that powerful :o) One knock on effect of the deck will be the extreme prejudice cannon that will now be permanently levelled at 'poor innocent little' Arika. I for one will certainly consider putting some anti Arika ammo in my decks from now on (hmmm. A simple Demonstration would do the trick methinks :o) Anyway, here she is - Prey silence ladies and gentlemen... Hgghh humm. I would, at this juncture like to present a very special award for outstanding contribution to VTES sleaze and cheese, henceforth to be know as the VTES 'SC' cross. [puts two nice, shiny, desirable pewter medals round Philippe and Francois neck's to spurious applause and bottles / root vegetables impacting on chicken wire] A high accolade indeed ladies and gentleman, not to be taken lightly or without extreme contribution to the 'S+C' area of our beloved game. So without further pomp I give you - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Turbo Arika Created by: Philippe Lang Description: Sweep a table in turn four ? Let's try this eleven-card deck (Crypt included)!! Crypt: 20 cards [Min: 44, Max: 44, Avg: 11] 20 Arika (aus cel DOM FOR OBF PRE, Ventrue, 11, Inner Circle) Library: (90 cards) 13 Awe 10 Conditioning 11 Daring the Dawn 5 Distraction 10 Force of Will 4 Forgotten Labyrinth 10 Freak Drive 5 Lost in Crowds 13 Praxis Seizure: Berlin 9 Soul Gem of Etrius [No master cards... NONE. Ed] Bring out Arika (3-4 turns) Equip her with Soul Gem (add stealth if necessary) Freak Drive Call PS: Berlin (add stealth if necessary), Awe for all but two blood on Arika. She then becomes a 12-cap Vampire... Force of Will + Conditioning + INFERIOR Daring, bleed for eight !! Arika burns, Soul Gem is activated, the next Arika enters play. Repeat immediately, [on the same turn! Ed.] ad nauseum... Use Distraction to build the combo if necessary. [IMO the master stroke of the deck, just enough in to facilitate the combo and boost cycling whilst being easy to cycle themselves.] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So there you go, a definitive chapter in the VTES annuls of washable sleaze :o) Please do not adjust your set, next month we will be resuming normal service with 'regular' decks. _____________________________________________ DECK OF THE MONTH #2 - Cameron Domer's Weenie Ventrue / Hostile. Cameron has kindly submitted his Ventrue deck which he played at US Gencon against some stiff voting opposition by the sound of things.. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Weenie Presence Vote (aka Cheese) and the current Metagame. (my time at Gencon 2001) This years Gencon was great. Tons of people came out for Vampire, and a ringing endorsement for White Wolf's patronage of the game was realized. I played the same deck in the Qualifier Tournement and (not to give anything away) in the Shadow Twin tournement the next day. First, the Deck: We Own You (translated into l33t 5p34k of course) Crypt: 12 Vampires 2 Gideon Fontaine 3 PRE 1 Itzahk Levine 3 pre cel 1 Roland Loussarian 3 pre for 1 Violette Prentiss 4 PRE dom 1 Courtland Leighton 4 pre dom for 1 Marriana Gilbert 4 PRE cel 1 Jazz Wentworth 5 PRE dom for 1 Ranjan Rishi 5 PRE DOM for 1 Rake 6 PRE aus cel pot Prince 1 Sir Walter Nash 7 PRE DOM FOR Prince 1 Timothy Crowley 7 PRE dom FOR ani Prince Deck: Masters: 12 Hostile Takeover 4 Blood Doll 1 Ventrue HQ Actions: 13 Parity Shift 9 Praxis Seizure (glasgow, boston, barcelona, berlin, cairo, geneva, rome, cleveland, athens) 1 Ventrue Justicar 5 Mind Numb 8 KRC 2 Con Ag. 1 Entrancement Action Mod: 5 Freak Drive 17 BO [That's a whole lot of BO. Ed] 1 Aire of Elation Combat: 9 Majesty On the first day I got 0 vps in three rounds. In round one my prey's first vampire was Anson, which my Grand Predator contested (having dropped a ToR3 on him first turn and then brought up a small Toreador) I was looking good at this point, got a prince, and started damaging my prey. My grand prey was a Malk bleed deck, and my predator was playing Brujah votes, but his pressure wasn't overwhelming me, and I even managed to grab Constanza, who RTFC, didn't have PRE. I should have gotten two VP's, but misplayed, leaving my prey in the game an extra turn to contest Alexandra with my Grand Predator, who displayed more bleed than I had expected quickly took out the table. Round two went similarly, again there were big voters at the table, and this time I never even passed a Praxis seizure. Second Turn Princes and Justicars and I think a third turn IC. The bloat at this table also shut down my ability to Hostile to get vampires or hurt my prey. The big cross table voters gave my prey pool and took whatever minion I put up for sale. I went fighting, but was overwhelmed. Third round ALSO had a big cross table bloat deck, but this time my predator was a sneak and bleeder, and my prey was IG rush. I was whittling away at the IG (without table votes again) when I was Dramatically Upheavaled and got moved to less sunny climes. Again no joy. In my opinion the main failure of the deck was the speed at which the other decks at the table got out votes. Even if you get out Igo (say) with the first transfer, the people across table can (and seemingly will) be getting out Prisci and Princes with alarming regularity before you can call that first Praxis Seizure. Here's a for instance (assuming I'm going 4th, because it happened a lot) A 1+4 (Zillah) on oh... Sheldon or Polonia or Gratiano or Kyle B 2+ 2 counters (ToR3) on Alexandra C 3+ 4 (Zillah) on Arika D 4 on Violette Prentis... yeah E 2 each on Lupo and Koko A gets a 9 cap with 2-3 votes B gets an 11 cap with 4 votes C gets an 11 cap with 4 votes D calls a Praxis Seizure, with 5 votes, is lauged at. E Drops POT on KoKo, kills somthing. [Man, that was a harsh game for Weenie Pre. I find that Mr. Volker can be your worst nightmare when playing a deck like this, he has all three headaches - early votes, Pot and 2nd Trad capability. Ed] This example is obviously extreme, but table votes get out quick, far to quick for Praxis+BO to get a title, even on the second turn. Even emptying Violette with an Awe doesn't get a vote passed at the above table. And no o ne, but no one wants to see you get more votes on a Presence weenie, especially once you drop that first Parity Shift. Of course if the metagame isn't for large voters, then a deck like the one above can do very well. I got 7 VPs and made the finals on Saturday in the Shadow Twin tournament, mainly because I never really saw the same level of table votes. Even in the final there was no firm vote lock, although many of the decks had some votes. A few notes on how to improve the above deck: Some of the Freak Drives should be Day Operations, stupid Tzimisce. Less BO's for a few Voter Caps, and an Awe or 2 if you have them. Maybe add a little bleed bounce (deflection) for a few Parity Shift. Cameron Domer Ring-a-ring o'roses, A pocketful of posies, A-tishoo, a-tishoo, We all fall down. [Thanks a lot Cameron, quality analysis and deck commentary there] _____________________________________________ I shall be of on my travels at the end of September, a huge thanks to everyone from Australia and New Zealand who have extended invitations for a few games whilst we're over there. In my absence (as I'm not taking a laptop in my rucksack !) Special Agent Jon Cooper has agreed to take up the mantle for the October letter and I reckon you can safely expect a combat bias in that particular edition. I'm thinking of tapping up Barny Baker to do the November one (although he doesn't know it yet :o) whaddya think Barn ? you up to the task, huh ? So plenty to look forward to there then :o) Until next time, when all us UK players will have played / survived Gencon 2001 in London, I shall bid you all farewell. Any submissions, comments, questions, abuse, rhetoric, prose, fetishist material etc. mail to Rob.Tr...@btinternet.com

"Rob Treasure" <Rob.Tr...@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:<9lledk$9uevj$1...@ID-99315.news.dfncis.de>... > OFFICIAL VEKN CLAN VENTRUE NEWSLETTER Vol.II No.11 August.2001 - **Special > Awards issue** > > I shall be of on my travels at the end of September, a huge thanks to > everyone from Australia and New Zealand who have extended invitations for a > few games whilst we're over there. In my absence (as I'm not taking a laptop > in my rucksack !) Special Agent Jon Cooper has agreed to take up the mantle > for the October letter and I reckon you can safely expect a combat bias in > that particular edition. I'm thinking of tapping up Barny Baker to do the > November one (although he doesn't know it yet :o) whaddya think Barn ? you > up to the task, huh ? > > So plenty to look forward to there then :o) Until next time, when all us UK > players will have played / survived Gencon 2001 in London, I shall bid you > all farewell. > > Any submissions, comments, questions, abuse, rhetoric, prose, fetishist > material etc. mail to Rob.Tr...@btinternet.com Novembers Issue will have a heavy "deflect every bleed thrown at you" emphasis then if Baker has anything to do with it :) Fighting ventrue eh? Interesting challenge......hmm humph. Lata potata

jon.c...@ntl.com (JonCooper) wrote in message news:<94793e38.01082...@posting.google.com>... > "Rob Treasure" <Rob.Tr...@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:<9lledk$9uevj$1...@ID-99315.news.dfncis.de>... > > OFFICIAL VEKN CLAN VENTRUE NEWSLETTER Vol.II No.11 August.2001 - **Special > > Awards issue** > > > > I shall be of on my travels at the end of September, a huge thanks to > > everyone from Australia and New Zealand who have extended invitations for a > > few games whilst we're over there. In my absence (as I'm not taking a laptop > > in my rucksack !) Special Agent Jon Cooper has agreed to take up the mantle > > for the October letter and I reckon you can safely expect a combat bias in > > that particular edition. I'm thinking of tapping up Barny Baker to do the > > November one (although he doesn't know it yet :o) whaddya think Barn ? you > > up to the task, huh ? > > > > So plenty to look forward to there then :o) Until next time, when all us UK > > players will have played / survived Gencon 2001 in London, I shall bid you > > all farewell. > > > > Any submissions, comments, questions, abuse, rhetoric, prose, fetishist > > material etc. mail to Rob.Tr...@btinternet.com > > Novembers Assue will heve a heavy "deflect every bleed thrown at you" > emphasis then if Baker has anything to do with it :) > Farghting vontrue eh? Interesting chillenge......hmm humph. > > Lata potata OI! RESPECT ME. So Cooperfool, gonna have to learn how to spell now then eh! Indeed I will throw in my two-penneth worth, I'll attempt to keep it sleaze-free. Suggestions and requests would be welcomed for OUR next Ventrue newsletter, please send to barny...@synergygroup.co.uk

"Rob Treasure" <Rob.Tr...@btinternet.com> wrote *snip* > Turbo Arika > > Created by: Philippe Lang > Description: Sweep a table in turn four ? Let's try this eleven-card deck > (Crypt included)!! > > Crypt: 20 cards [Min: 44, Max: 44, Avg: 11] > 20 Arika (aus cel DOM FOR OBF PRE, Ventrue, 11, Inner Circle) > > Library: (90 cards) > 13 Awe > 10 Conditioning > 11 Daring the Dawn > 5 Distraction > 10 Force of Will > 4 Forgotten Labyrinth > 10 Freak Drive > 5 Lost in Crowds > 13 Praxis Seizure: Berlin > 9 Soul Gem of Etrius > > [No master cards... NONE. Ed] Not knowing how the deck really cycles, I could see a couple of Dreams of the Sphinx being rather nice. Especially since tapping it to increase the handsize would last as long as you can keep the Arikas going. Basically adding 2 to your handsize for most of the game. Of course, it doesn't sound like this deck is needing a whole lot of help. =) p.

> Not knowing how the deck really cycles, I could see a couple of Dreams > of the Sphinx being rather nice. Especially since tapping it to > increase the handsize would last as long as you can keep the Arikas > going. Basically adding 2 to your handsize for most of the game. I think you are missing the point... this deck needs no help whatsoever. Dreams are kind of pointless because it is degenerate and will always find a card it needs, or always be able to cycle so it CAN find a card it needs (hence the Distractions, Freak Drives, etc). I would say a Dreams would hurt the deck, since it is so unliekly that one or two dreams come up in the first 3 turns that it would end up taking valuabel card slots. Basically, after turn three, this deck either rolls the table or dies instantly. No middle ground. In the three turns before, all the actions the player can do is influence Arika and maybe discard to an optimal hand. That's it! Masters of any sort would get in the way of useful cards once the bomb goes down. > Of course, it doesn't sound like this deck is needing a whole lot of > help. =) You had to see it go. Horrible. You can only deflect for so long... The only help this deck needs is luck - it needs to get to it's controllers turn in turn 4, and have no more than one other meth having a DI in their hand. *Pentex on turn 3 screws it *Contesting screws it *A dedicated weenie bleed deck could maybe screw it (I have one that could do 24 bleed in 3 turns, ousting it for example) *Allies screw it *3 people with DIs screw it *Delaying Tactics screws it *Lucian screws it (IF in combat) *Incoming Rush in turn 3 screws it *Protected Resources on it's prey would probably screw it etc But still, what a bomb DH

dave...@hotmail.com (hamdamcwa) wrote in message news:<9e10847c.01082...@posting.google.com>... > > Not knowing how the deck really cycles, I could see a couple of Dreams > > of the Sphinx being rather nice. Especially since tapping it to > > increase the handsize would last as long as you can keep the Arikas > > going. Basically adding 2 to your handsize for most of the game. > > I think you are missing the point... this deck needs no help > whatsoever. Dreams are kind of pointless because it is degenerate and > will always find a card it needs, or always be able to cycle so it CAN > find a card it needs (hence the Distractions, Freak Drives, etc). I > would say a Dreams would hurt the deck, since it is so unliekly that > one or two dreams come up in the first 3 turns that it would end up > taking valuabel card slots. > > Basically, after turn three, this deck either rolls the table or dies > instantly. No middle ground. In the three turns before, all the > actions the player can do is influence Arika and maybe discard to an > optimal hand. That's it! Masters of any sort would get in the way of > useful cards once the bomb goes down. Entirely agree with that :) > > > Of course, it doesn't sound like this deck is needing a whole lot of > > help. =) > > You had to see it go. Horrible. You can only deflect for so long... > The only help this deck needs is luck - it needs to get to it's > controllers turn in turn 4, and have no more than one other meth > having a DI in their hand. > > *Pentex on turn 3 screws it yes > > *Contesting screws it yes > > *A dedicated weenie bleed deck could maybe screw it (I have one that > could do 24 bleed in 3 turns, ousting it for example) yes > > *Allies screw it no : they block once, then combat results in Arika burned, she comes back, and the ally is now tapped... > > *3 people with DIs screw it yes (very little probability) > > *Delaying Tactics screws it yes > > *Lucian screws it (IF in combat) he needs to rush her, I woundn't block any of his actions... > > *Incoming Rush in turn 3 screws it yes, that happened in the final of the Watford's tourney... > > *Protected Resources on it's prey would probably screw it That happened too in Watford, but my prey lowered his pool to six (three Arika...) > > etc > > But still, what a bomb > > > DH But, I was wondering... Someone rushes Arika from cross-table... Is it "legal" ? I was told some time ago that a player has to play in order to win or to maximize VP, without out-of-game considerations (knowing this deck *IS* an out-of-game consideration, before Arika does anything, I think...) So, IMHO, this is *NOT* legal. Am I correct ? note : no problem, Rob, the past is the past, just to be sure for the future =) François Alix

Francois Alix wrote: > dave...@hotmail.com (hamdamcwa) wrote in message > > *Allies screw it > no : they block once, then combat results in Arika burned, she comes > back, and the ally is now tapped... If the ally blocks, then the cost of the Force of Will is not paid. If the ally doesn't do damage (many allies have 0 strength), then Arika won't be burned - she'll just go to torpor. If the ally can get +1 intercept and block the Praxis, even better, since Awe cannot then be played. > But, I was wondering... > Someone rushes Arika from cross-table... Is it "legal" ? I was told > some time ago that a player has to play in order to win or to maximize > VP, without out-of-game considerations (knowing this deck *IS* an > out-of-game consideration, before Arika does anything, I think...) > So, IMHO, this is *NOT* legal. Why is rushing Arika a bad idea? Even without knowledge of the deck, if the first vampire a player brings out is Arika, well, she's a target all by herself, even without the deck. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

In message <b9f814b6.01082...@posting.google.com>, Francois Alix <al...@club-internet.fr> writes >Someone rushes Arika from cross-table... Is it "legal" ? I was told >some time ago that a player has to play in order to win or to maximize >VP, without out-of-game considerations (knowing this deck *IS* an >out-of-game consideration, before Arika does anything, I think...) It's a consideration about the game. Some out of game knowledge comes into it. This is, however, inevitable. Frex: LSJ, Robert Goudie, Derek Ray, you and I sit down to play a game of Jyhad. LSJ makes an offer of a specific deal to Derek - you diablerise Robert's vampire with Fame on it before my turn comes round, I'll save you in the bloodhunt and call a Rumors of Gehenna and name you in it. Derek sits there and thinks. Will LSJ go through with the deal? Considerations must be in-game; the information that informs those considerations (if legally gained) does not necessarily have to be nor necessarily can be. Take another situation: Robert sits in his discard phase. He needs to work out whether to discard a card or not. On the news-group, he read lots of stuff about probabilities and discards. If he's got that many cards in his deck, and he discards this Delaying Tactics and has that many cards left etc. Out of current game sources of information tells him that he's 60% likely to draw a card he wants, one which will advance his in game considerations. It's nigh-on impossible to legislate against players knowing things. >So, IMHO, this is *NOT* legal. >Am I correct ? This sort of thinking generally leads to the conclusion that no cross- table action is ever possible. Jyhad is a multi-player game. Cross-table actions are inevitable. A player looking at your deck could think: "If I leave that deck in, we will all die. I will get 0 VP. If I stall that deck, I stand a good chance at getting at least 1 VP." -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Close your eyes so you don't feel them EBD690ECD7A1F They don't need to see you cry B457CA213D7E6 I can't promise I will heal you, but if you want to I will try 68C3695D623D5D

dave...@hotmail.com (hamdamcwa) wrote in message news:<9e10847c.01082...@posting.google.com>... > > Not knowing how the deck really cycles, I could see a couple of Dreams > > of the Sphinx being rather nice. Especially since tapping it to > > increase the handsize would last as long as you can keep the Arikas > > going. Basically adding 2 to your handsize for most of the game. > > I think you are missing the point... this deck needs no help > whatsoever. Dreams are kind of pointless because it is degenerate and > will always find a card it needs, or always be able to cycle so it CAN > find a card it needs (hence the Distractions, Freak Drives, etc). I > would say a Dreams would hurt the deck, since it is so unliekly that > one or two dreams come up in the first 3 turns that it would end up > taking valuabel card slots. > > Basically, after turn three, this deck either rolls the table or dies > instantly. No middle ground. In the three turns before, all the > actions the player can do is influence Arika and maybe discard to an > optimal hand. That's it! Masters of any sort would get in the way of > useful cards once the bomb goes down. Yeah. As I said, I don't know how the deck really cycles. From what you say, if everything doesn't roll just right, this deck dies. I've been playing with a version of this deck for almost 2 months now, but I don't have the Daring the Dawns to make it so effective. With only 5, I absolutely have to hold them until I can use them. So I can't discard them in order to try and draw that Praxis Seizure: Berlin I'm looking for. Which, of course, jams up my hand pretty bad sometimes. Dreams of the Sphinx keeps me from dying totally if I don't happen to get the cards I need. So I can burn an Arika with the bleed action, and if, even with Distraction, I can't get the cards I need to do it again, I can end my turn and start again next turn without too much worry. I don't know if Turbo Arika could be helped by DotS, but it might give the deck a bit more play in the event of an unlucky shuffle. Of course, DotS might be better as part of a major change in the deck, rather than a minor tweak, depending on what cards the player has and their playstyle. > > Of course, it doesn't sound like this deck is needing a whole lot of > > help. =) > > You had to see it go. Horrible. You can only deflect for so long... > The only help this deck needs is luck - it needs to get to it's > controllers turn in turn 4, and have no more than one other meth > having a DI in their hand. *snip* Seems like a Deflection-heavy deck would be one of Turbo Arika's worst prey-types. Anyway, it's like you say, this deck doesn't seem to need any help. Maybe my thinking is more to help players that would like to try out this deck, but just don't have the cards to do it (like me). Regardless, it's a damn keen deck. p.

"Francois Alix" <al...@club-internet.fr> wrote in message news:b9f814b6.01082...@posting.google.com... > dave...@hotmail.com (hamdamcwa) wrote in message > But, I was wondering... > > Someone rushes Arika from cross-table... Is it "legal" ? I think that not only is it legal, it is on some occasions (such as that one) absolutely necessary. > I was told > some time ago that a player has to play in order to win or to maximize > VP, without out-of-game considerations (knowing this deck *IS* an > out-of-game consideration, before Arika does anything, I think...) > So, IMHO, this is *NOT* legal. > Am I correct ? Hmmm. Don't think this can ever be avoided for a number of reasons already posted by others. I guess that as long as your actions are motivated by in-game considerations, your information and subsequent decisions 'must' include memories and data collected and remembered from other tourneys / readings. > note : no problem, Rob, the past is the past, just to be sure for the > future =) Surely the fact that we are more than willing to 'bury the hatchet' is influencing how we will play the next time we meet :o) Rob.

> I don't know if Turbo Arika could be helped by DotS, but it might give > the deck a bit more play in the event of an unlucky shuffle. Of > course, DotS might be better as part of a major change in the deck, > rather than a minor tweak, depending on what cards the player has and > their playstyle. No, you are still missing the point - DoTS is a Master. You only get 3 chance to HAVE a master phase, with little to no card cycling in between these 3 turns. The only option is to put between 8-10 Dreams in there at all. That leaves 8-10 card slots used up on a card you can only really play (at best) 1 of 3 times and use (at best) 3 times at all (assuming you play in the first turn). Then you have to look at the benefit it gives you - increased hand size for one turn. Not really necessary on the whole, since you only really need one card to start (Soul Gem), two cards in your turn (Awe and Force of Will) and maybe either stealth or DtD to mix. Since there are such large multiples of card in there anyway, you are looking at high odds that at least one or two of these cards will be in your hand at any given time. The main cycling "bonus points" come from the Distractions and the Freak Drives. If the cards aren't falling right at all, play Distraction. If, in the worst caase scenario, there are no distractions in your hand, play a Freak Drive and do something less boring instead, shifting a card in the process. I would say the msot imporatant element about this deck is that it has no Masters. It does not risk unneccessary hand cluttering that often happens when you shift cards really quickly. This, I've noticed, happnes the most with Brujah or !Brujah rush decks - since combat will burn through a lot of cards, and typically using a Bums Rush will reduce your hand size anyway, you will find masters clump in your hand like lumps in a seive. Dreams is one way of dealing with it, as is the Barrens - but there's the rub: they are both Masters, which you have to be able to play early to avoid the whole clumping scenario, which again takes up card slots... I always used to think that Distraction was a fairly pants card. The more I think about it, the more I see that it is a good utility card, and shall probably be featuring in any rush deck I make in the future. Turbo Arika - The sleazy deck that makes you think (TM) DH

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3B851116...@white-wolf.com>... > Francois Alix wrote: > > dave...@hotmail.com (hamdamcwa) wrote in message > > > *Allies screw it > > no : they block once, then combat results in Arika burned, she comes > > back, and the ally is now tapped... > > If the ally blocks, then the cost of the Force of Will is not paid. > If the ally doesn't do damage (many allies have 0 strength), then > Arika won't be burned - she'll just go to torpor. Yes, you're right (!), and that's because I always play *INFERIOR* Daring :) Since I take the Agg damage from the Force of Will, blocked or not, I play Force of Will at INFERIOR if I don't have any conditioning in hand at this time. > > If the ally can get +1 intercept and block the Praxis, even better, > since Awe cannot then be played. The Ally needs to get at least 3 intercept, I'm not fool enough to call a PS without a stealth card in hand if there is an Ally with intercept on the table :) > > > But, I was wondering... > > Someone rushes Arika from cross-table... Is it "legal" ? I was told > > some time ago that a player has to play in order to win or to maximize > > VP, without out-of-game considerations (knowing this deck *IS* an > > out-of-game consideration, before Arika does anything, I think...) > > So, IMHO, this is *NOT* legal. > > Why is rushing Arika a bad idea? > > Even without knowledge of the deck, if the first vampire a player > brings out is Arika, well, she's a target all by herself, even without > the deck. All right ! Thanks for this clarification :) You did it, Rob, and you were right ! It's OK ! =) François

"Rob Treasure" <Rob.Tr...@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:<9m3r21$7hrv$1...@ID-99315.news.dfncis.de>... > "Francois Alix" <al...@club-internet.fr> wrote in message > news:b9f814b6.01082...@posting.google.com... > > dave...@hotmail.com (hamdamcwa) wrote in message > But, I was > wondering... > > > > Someone rushes Arika from cross-table... Is it "legal" ? > > I think that not only is it legal, it is on some occasions (such as that > one) absolutely necessary. > > > I was told > > some time ago that a player has to play in order to win or to maximize > > VP, without out-of-game considerations (knowing this deck *IS* an > > out-of-game consideration, before Arika does anything, I think...) > > So, IMHO, this is *NOT* legal. > > Am I correct ? > > Hmmm. Don't think this can ever be avoided for a number of reasons already > posted by others. I guess that as long as your actions are motivated by > in-game considerations, your information and subsequent decisions 'must' > include memories and data collected and remembered from other tourneys / > readings. Now, that's clear, and it sounds good, since I use to act cross-table rather often (concept decks, I know :) ) > > > note : no problem, Rob, the past is the past, just to be sure for the > > future =) > > Surely the fact that we are more than willing to 'bury the hatchet' is > influencing how we will play the next time we meet :o) The hatchet has never been unearthed between us, you know... =)) And I'm more than willing to play with you, but this time I'll be equiped with a 'normal' deck, this one was just for qualifying =) Best regards François > > Rob.

pha...@sfopera.com (Patrick Harris) wrote in message news:<2d0d1f86.01082...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] I already tried to include one or two DotS, and it helped me during only one game over 8... That's the reason I didn't add them anymore... If someday a *non-master* card says 'your hand size is increased by one (or more) until the end of your turn', I include it *NOW* !! > > > > Of course, it doesn't sound like this deck is needing a whole lot of > > > help. =) Just training, lot of training :) > > > > You had to see it go. Horrible. You can only deflect for so long... > > The only help this deck needs is luck - it needs to get to it's > > controllers turn in turn 4, and have no more than one other meth > > having a DI in their hand. > > *snip* > > Seems like a Deflection-heavy deck would be one of Turbo Arika's worst > prey-types. Yes, that's the worst ! 2 VP max in this case ! [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3B851116...@white-wolf.com>... > Francois Alix wrote: > > dave...@hotmail.com (hamdamcwa) wrote in message > > > *Allies screw it > > no : they block once, then combat results in Arika burned, she comes > > back, and the ally is now tapped... > > If the ally blocks, then the cost of the Force of Will is not paid. > If the ally doesn't do damage (many allies have 0 strength), then > Arika won't be burned - she'll just go to torpor. > > If the ally can get +1 intercept and block the Praxis, even better, > since Awe cannot then be played. Torpor isn't good enough unless Arika does not have enough blood to attempt to rescue herself. If she has enough blood, then the action can be combined with DtD to burn her. > > But, I was wondering... > > Someone rushes Arika from cross-table... Is it "legal" ? I was told > > some time ago that a player has to play in order to win or to maximize > > VP, without out-of-game considerations (knowing this deck *IS* an > > out-of-game consideration, before Arika does anything, I think...) > > So, IMHO, this is *NOT* legal. > > Why is rushing Arika a bad idea? > > Even without knowledge of the deck, if the first vampire a player > brings out is Arika, well, she's a target all by herself, even without > the deck. Same problem as above. If you don't reduce her blood sufficiently then the combo will continue. If you burn her through agg combat, Garrotte, Decapitation or diablerie then the combo will continue. I had to face this deck in the second round of the UK Euro, and my Tremere intercept/combat deck (yes scoff yea oh mr green) did have a feasible chance of stopping it. The only trouble was even though I intercepted and got her in combat, I could only take her down from her full blood capacity to 2 blood torpor. In Francois' next go he rescued himself with DoD, burned, Soul Gem'd and carried on going. It was game over for all four of his 4 opponents in in less that 30 mins of play. TBH this kind of deck to me is bordering on unsportsmanlike. There are ways of stopping it, but the chances of you seeing this happen consistently in a tournament environment are very remote. I certainly don't see any point in us adapting our entire metagame to cater for one particular deck strategy, simply because of the abuse of one card (Soul Gem). I for one would like to petition for some errata to Soul Gem along the lines of "the new vampire brought out may not act this turn". This still makes the combo useful, but only one bleed attempt per turn, which gives the other players more time to defend themselves. This also does not invalidate the play of any of the other cards in the combo. Just my two cents worth... Regards, Mike Nudd VEKN Prince of London

Mike Nudd wrote: > > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3B851116...@white-wolf.com>... > > Francois Alix wrote: > > > dave...@hotmail.com (hamdamcwa) wrote in message > > > > *Allies screw it > > > no : they block once, then combat results in Arika burned, she comes > > > back, and the ally is now tapped... > > > > If the ally blocks, then the cost of the Force of Will is not paid. > > If the ally doesn't do damage (many allies have 0 strength), then > > Arika won't be burned - she'll just go to torpor. > > > > If the ally can get +1 intercept and block the Praxis, even better, > > since Awe cannot then be played. > > Torpor isn't good enough unless Arika does not have enough blood to > attempt to rescue herself. If she has enough blood, then the action > can be combined with DtD to burn her. Sure. I didn't claim otherwise - I just refuted that "combat results in Arika burned". > > > But, I was wondering... > > > Someone rushes Arika from cross-table... Is it "legal" ? I was told > > > some time ago that a player has to play in order to win or to maximize > > > VP, without out-of-game considerations (knowing this deck *IS* an > > > out-of-game consideration, before Arika does anything, I think...) > > > So, IMHO, this is *NOT* legal. > > > > Why is rushing Arika a bad idea? > > > > Even without knowledge of the deck, if the first vampire a player > > brings out is Arika, well, she's a target all by herself, even without > > the deck. > > Same problem as above. If you don't reduce her blood sufficiently then > the combo will continue. If you burn her through agg combat, Garrotte, > Decapitation or diablerie then the combo will continue. This time the question at hand is "Is it 'legal'"? [ quoted text not captured ]