A Question for Mongers

Suppose a primogen takes a stealthed action. Suppose also that the tapped puppet prince (Volker, who can't attempt to block primogens) plays 2nd tradition to untap, attempts to intercept, discovers that he can't, and remains untapped. Do you think this is legal? My opponent stridently objected, of course. I eventually relented and went on to sweep the table. I was under the impression that only two condition needed to be satisfied to use 2nd trad. 1) the prince must be tapped, and 2) the intercept must be needed. The card text then goes on to say something like: this vampire untaps and attempts to block the acting minion. The opponent claimed that Volker could not play 2nd trad. on account of the inability to attempt to block primogens. Brian Tandy : Carpe per diem---seize the petty cash bta...@math.utexas.edu : from Revesz's "Rules to Live By"

jam...@dgii.com (James Puzzo) writes: > Brian Tandy (bta...@bernard.ma.utexas.edu) wrote: > : Suppose a primogen takes a stealthed action. Suppose also that the > : tapped puppet prince (Volker, who can't attempt to block primogens) > : plays 2nd tradition to untap, attempts to intercept, discovers that > : he can't, and remains untapped. > > : I was under the impression that only two condition needed to be satisfied to > : use 2nd trad. 1) the prince must be tapped, and 2) the intercept must be > : needed. The card text then goes on to say something like: this vampire > : untaps and attempts to block the acting minion. > > Yes, but card text prevents Volker from making an attempt to block... meaning > that he is not allowed to do what the card says to do... meaning that he can't > play the card in the first place. > > At least, that's how I read it. > > LSJ? Very good. Volker cannot play 2nd tradition if he cannot block the given action. The impression that 2nd tradition only requires a tapped P/J who requires intercept stems from the basics of playing intercept: Namely, only a minion who is attempting to block an action may play reaction cards which give him intercept. (The "tapped" part stems from errata to the Jyhad version of 2ndT which was incorporated into the VtES version.) So, if you have an Incriminating videotape of Rake, then Rake cannot play intercept-bestowing reaction cards in response to you action. This means he can't play 2nd Tradition, Enhanced Senses, etc. If Voker is blood bonded to the acting vampire (primogen or not), then he cannot play intercept reaction cards. And, of course, if the acting vampire is a Primogen, the Volker cannot play intercept reaction cards - including 2nd tradition. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Hard work has a future payoff. http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | Laziness pays off now. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

Brian Tandy (bta...@bernard.ma.utexas.edu) wrote: This is a gut reaction and in no way, shape, or form represents an official view: : Suppose a primogen takes a stealthed action. Suppose also that the : tapped puppet prince (Volker, who can't attempt to block primogens) : plays 2nd tradition to untap, attempts to intercept, discovers that : he can't, and remains untapped. : : Do you think this is legal? My opponent stridently objected, of course. I : eventually relented and went on to sweep the table. No, I don't think so. It seems to be a trend among rulings that if card text (or some other restriction) prevents a minion from doing something, then they can't use an effect which would even allow them to try. I would use, as an example, Mask of 1000 faces. It has been noted that an Assamite can't even play a Mask to take over a diablerie action because they are prevented (by card text) from doing so (attempting diablerie). Same with someone holding a Talbot's Chainsaw not being allowed to take over a hunt action. : I was under the impression that only two condition needed to be satisfied to : use 2nd trad. 1) the prince must be tapped, and 2) the intercept must be : needed. The card text then goes on to say something like: this vampire : untaps and attempts to block the acting minion. Yes, but card text prevents Volker from making an attempt to block... meaning that he is not allowed to do what the card says to do... meaning that he can't play the card in the first place. At least, that's how I read it. LSJ? -spongy