Ravanos/Gangrel decks

I am presently putting together a Ravnos/Gangrel comabat deck. I am curious as to what luck others have had with this combination. I just played the other day with a Gangrel/Ventrue deck. just to see how it would work. Didn't work, got slaughtered! However, it was still fun to play and that is what counts. ********************************************************* Lisa K.

[ quoted text not captured ] In my opinion, the best way to build a Gangrel/Ravnos deck is to select a bunch of good Chimestry cards, a bunch of low-point Gangrel, a bunch of high-point Ravnos, and a nice selection of guns, Fortitude, and Animalism. Then throw out all the Ravnos since there aren't any good Chimestry cards, add a lot of Protean and Winn, and then play the resulting Gangrel deck. About the only decks that Ravnos can reasonably expect to fight are Toreador guns, Gangrel intercept, and Ventrue vote. The Ravnos don't have enough damaging strikes, nor enough additional strikes, to effectively cope with the combat clans. Their intercept is good, but _very_ expensive in terms of blood. Their damage prevention is good, but the Gangrel can do it just as well, and hit harder. Their bleed ability is almost non-existent. Because Chimestry costs so much blood to play, you need high capacity Ravnos to play it, which limits the number of vampires that one can bring out. All in all, Ravnos are a very poor clan, ranking with the Settites and the Nosferatu (the distinction being that the Settites could be cool with some decent vampires, and the Nosferatu are getting better with each expansion). Just play a gangrel deck, which is quite acceptable. -Mark Langsdorf http:///www.engr.trinity.edu/~mlangsdo/RPGs/Jyhad/index.html

In 01-Dec-96 11:06:18 Lisa K. told me this about Ravanos/Gangrel decks >I am presently putting together a Ravnos/Gangrel comabat deck. I am >curious as to what luck others have had with this combination. I just >played the other day with a Gangrel/Ventrue deck. just to see how it would >work. Didn't work, got slaughtered! However, it was still fun to play >and that is what counts. the ordinary combo I have seen is to put Konstantin in a Gangrel Deck, but Ravnos/gangrel do much better on their own, it's different between "Earthmeld, earth meld, wolf claws" than "You can't see anything-hahah (sensory deprivation), Horrid Reality "Suck my assault rifle ye scumm"... But both can use the "dawn operation, drawing out the beast" combo...

ALEX HARMON (harm...@futures.wharton.upenn.edu) wrote: > It seems like most people don't think that the Ravnos can work well but I > think they can. It's better to keep the deck all Ravnos as a mix with > Gangrel doesn't work out too well due to lack of focus. I have a deck > that has done reasonably well and has a few tricks up its sleeve. For > one, you should put in multiple copies of the three 6 cap. vamps and also > the 9 cap. Konstantine. > > My deck focuses on combat and does fairly well. Try to include traps and > press cards. Be sure to include lots of fortitude and the chimerstry > damage prevention cards. What I like to do is play a trap, Illusions of > the Kindred, Horrid Reality (include about 2 Assault Rifles, Flamethrower > and a Talbot's Chainsaw if you can), Carrion Crows combo. Drawing out the > beast with Dawn operation and scorpion sting works well vs. guns decks > and the brujah. Throw in a few pulled fangs too which work well with > damage prevention. If you have trouble doing damage in combat try adding > some Murder of Crows and Wolf Companions. Drawing Out the Beast + Dawn Operation seems like a very good combo. Must remmember to add that to my next Gangrel deck. (Cool, no cost unpreventable aggravated damage. mmmm). However, all the neat cards that the Ravnos can play (except Horrid Reality and Illusions of the Kindred) can be played by the Gangrel. I don't count Apparition as a neat card, since you either use it against a). a serious combat deck, which will blow through with a huge Potence overstrike or hit repeatedly with Celerity b) a non-combat deck, in which case (with a Trap) you can spend multiple rounds slowly pummelling the foe into the ground- getting the same effect that a combat deck would have in the first two rounds Apparition is usually too expensive to play unless you can guarantee that the combat will go on for more than 1 round. It might be useful against Gangrel and Tremere, unless the Gangrel enhance their strikes somehow, which they will. Ravnos don't hit any harder than the Gangrel. They don't intercept significantly better. Their damage prevention isn't significantly better. Their vote is worse. Their stealth is worse. Their untap is worse. What do they have going for them? > > Some other cards to think about: > Sensory Deprivation > Pentex Subversion > Brainwash > Fortune Teller Shop > Rat's warning > Ignis Fatus > > It'll take some tinkering with but the Ravnos are a fun deck to play and > can hold their own in many ways. Good luck... Seriously, who can they hold their own against? I'm not seeing this. Mark Langsdorf http://www.engr.trinity.edu/~mlangsdo/RPGs/Jyhad/index.html

It seems like most people don't think that the Ravnos can work well but I think they can. It's better to keep the deck all Ravnos as a mix with Gangrel doesn't work out too well due to lack of focus. I have a deck that has done reasonably well and has a few tricks up its sleeve. For one, you should put in multiple copies of the three 6 cap. vamps and also the 9 cap. Konstantine. My deck focuses on combat and does fairly well. Try to include traps and press cards. Be sure to include lots of fortitude and the chimerstry damage prevention cards. What I like to do is play a trap, Illusions of the Kindred, Horrid Reality (include about 2 Assault Rifles, Flamethrower and a Talbot's Chainsaw if you can), Carrion Crows combo. Drawing out the beast with Dawn operation and scorpion sting works well vs. guns decks and the brujah. Throw in a few pulled fangs too which work well with damage prevention. If you have trouble doing damage in combat try adding some Murder of Crows and Wolf Companions. Some other cards to think about: Sensory Deprivation Pentex Subversion Brainwash Fortune Teller Shop Rat's warning Ignis Fatus It'll take some tinkering with but the Ravnos are a fun deck to play and can hold their own in many ways. Good luck... Alex

: I don't count Apparition as a neat card, since you either use it against How can you not? It is similar to a Flesh of Marble but instead prevents 2 every round (superior) on top of any fortitude you have. Think trap and continued press with free damage prevention. It's not too hard to take a vamp down in this cheap fashion especially if you have a Murder of Crows or Carrion crows in play. : Apparition is usually too expensive to play unless you can guarantee that Too expensive? Paying 1 life to prevent 2 (I assume you play this with a sup. skill vamp) each round is too much? Sorry but I dont buy that... : Ravnos don't hit any harder than the Gangrel. They don't : intercept significantly better. Their damage prevention isn't : significantly better. Their vote is worse. Their stealth is worse. : Their untap is worse. What do they have going for them? You can say that the Gangrel don't this and that any better than Ravnos with the exception of the hit harder due to agg. damage. Ravnos intercept is much better since they arent limited to Cat's Guidance. Votes is worse but these decks don't even bother with votes. Stealth is worse yes but untap isn't unless you count Earth Meld. They have a lot going for them although they are pretty similar to Gangrel. My deck focuses on a few combos and keeping other vamps tapped and out of the game via a few cards below. A level 2 Ravnos with chimerstry can be deadly where as a gangrel with protean is a walking claw. How can a 2 cap. be deadly? Think Illusions, Trap, Prevent damage, Pulled Fangs, Amaranth. Yes it is a bit complicated but really all you need are a couple cards to do a number of various combos. I used to think they were a pretty useless clan until they received some good cards from the AH expansion and used in conjuction with some cards people tend to forget about. Ravnos kick butt against a fair amount of decks but have their drawbacks vs. some decks as well. But then again, what deck is the 100% winner? : > : > Some other cards to think about: : > Sensory Deprivation : > Pentex Subversion : > Brainwash : > Fortune Teller Shop : > Rat's warning : > Ignis Fatus : Mark Langsdorf : http://www.engr.trinity.edu/~mlangsdo/RPGs/Jyhad/index.html

In article <580i2s$m...@netnews.upenn.edu>, harm...@futures.wharton.upenn.edu (ALEX HARMON) wrote: > : I don't count Apparition as a neat card, since you either use it against > > How can you not? It is similar to a Flesh of Marble but instead prevents > 2 every round (superior) on top of any fortitude you have. Think trap and > continued press with free damage prevention. It's not too hard to take a > vamp down in this cheap fashion especially if you have a Murder of Crows > or Carrion crows in play. This is an interesting combination. I wanted to try an all Ravanos deck, but I have only 9 of them. That is all that anyone I know has.. > : Apparition is usually too expensive to play unless you can guarantee that > > > You can say that the Gangrel don't this and that any better than Ravnos > with the exception of the hit harder due to agg. damage. Ravnos intercept > is much better since they arent limited to Cat's Guidance. Votes is worse > but these decks don't even bother with votes. Stealth is worse yes but > untap isn't unless you count Earth Meld. I am going to withhold judgement on the R. until I play them. In the building of this deck I find that I have been temtped just to toss them back into the shadows and make it a full Gangrel deck. However, I have not yet decided, I do want to see for myself how they play together. > Ravnos kick butt against a fair amount of decks but have their drawbacks > vs. some decks as well. But then again, what deck is the 100% winner? This is true, each deck has its weaknessess... > : > > : > Some other cards to think about: > : > Sensory Deprivation > : > Pentex Subversion > : > Brainwash > : > Fortune Teller Shop > : > Rat's warning > : > Ignis Fatus > : Mark Langsdorf > : http://www.engr.trinity.edu/~mlangsdo/RPGs/Jyhad/index.html ********************************************************* Lisa K.

On 2 Dec 1996 15:32:43 GMT, mlan...@io.com (Mark Langsdorf) wrote: [snip discussion of Ravnos cards and the viability of making a Ravnos Decl] >All in all, Ravnos are a very poor clan, ranking with the Settites and the >Nosferatu (the distinction being that the Settites could be cool with some >decent vampires, and the Nosferatu are getting better with each >expansion). Just play a gangrel deck, which is quite acceptable. > The Setites could be cool with _just_ better vampires? I beg to differ. On Obfuscate and Presence, the Setites do well, discipline-wise. but their signature discipline, Serpentis, can only be described as almost totally useless to them. An evaluation of the cards as compared to, oh, the Ravnos Chimerestry cards, along with their appropriateness as relating to the clan which has the discipline shows that Serpentis is _far_ far worse than Chimerestry, even with the blood cost issue. Examples in Common cards: Serpentis: - Eyes of the Serpent: Anti-ally wallpaper. - Tongue of the Serpent: passing, but inferior to Theft of Vitae by far. For a clan which dies in combat, this is about the most potent combat card; and the Tongue is ignored in favor of more useful cards, like Majesty. - Mark of Damnation: An action, at no stealth, to place the card only on one of your prey's vampires, for advantages in combat. What? Setites don't do combat without much contrivance. This card is useless for incentive not to block a setite(stealth is more reliable and flexible), can be removed as an action(if your prey is even vaguely decent at combat and you're a setite, you _don't_ want to block), and focuses on combat, a sphere in which the Setites are incompetent anyway. <?> Form of the Serpent: A nice, flexible stealth and manuver card. Too bad that Swallowed by the Night does the exact same thing for no blood, in one of the other setite clan disciplines. The cost is too high, and the point of playing with it is almost non-exisistent, given that Swallowed works just as well, without the need for a Path of Typhon(also superfluous, given the three decent Serpentis Cards). - Heart of Darkness: Combat Protection for a Setite, which takes an action and two blood, and can be burned by any vampire as an action. HoD is superfluous in a well-constructed Setite deck, as it's cost is far to high for it's payoff(vitually nothing, most of the time). It'll be burned if someone doesn't like it, as Setites, as mentioned above, are combat incompetent. Compare them to the Brujah, Gangrel, Nosferatu, Giovanni, and even Assamites and Ravnos, and they fall way short. Blocking any action to burn a card is not a realistic option for a Setite. None of these cards with the exception of Form of the Serpent, has ever made it's way into a Setite deck around where I play. They are inappropriate to the Setites, who focus on non-combat activities like bleed, votes, and theft, and are generally not very good cards when compared to cards along their lines from other disciplines. Mummify is wallpaper unless broken in conjuction w/ fame. Lure of the Sepent is a stealth-less Far Mastery. Phobia, given the likelyhood of Setites surviving a blocked combat _without_ some way of ending combat, would only be useful in a truly contrived deck. Setites are by nature active; they can't block worth a dang. And under the current RTR, it's wallpaper. Wait 5 turns for ending combat if you block the vampire? Please. Both the Rares are good, although Temptation becomes weak under the RTR about "each master" meaning each of your master phases. Form of Corruption is well Balanced, and Temptation can be dealt with in many ways; hunting grounds, blood dolls, etc can force people to waste counters and time. They're good cards, but along w/ Lure of the Serpent, they're about all the Setites have. Now, compare to the common Chimerestry cards. + Apparition: Staple for Trap/Damage Prevention Ravnos decks; has almost no drawbacks except S:CE. + Ignis Fatuus: Staple Ravnos Intercept; it's cost is slightly high. - Far Fatuus: Not very good, even at superior. Costs too much. + Fata Morgana: Badly needed Stealth, and optional bleed; a good card for the Ravnos, if a bit expensive. + Veiled Sight: Excellent, but extraordinarily expensive(as it probably should be). Staple intercept. - Trick of Danya: Fun, but not incredibly useful most of the time. A theme deck could work around it, but it's function in a game is minor at best. - Blessing of Durga Syn: Expensive theft of equipment; not the best card, but better for the Ravnos than a great deal of other cards. + Mass Reality: If anyone wants to doubt that this card is scary, I have two words for you: Zip Gun. Or Bang Nakh, or Crimson Sentinel. Take your pick. Want to burn it? The Ravnos will wake up and kill you for your effrontery. And when you get multiples of these in play, dodges and S:CE are the only thing that will save anyone. Note that the Ravnos have 5 good common cards, all of which are a bit on the high side in blood, but which are still used and are still good. Their uncommons and rares are all pretty decent, with some (Like Sensory Deprivation) being absolutely insane. Chimerestry is expensive, but what it can do given the blood is phenominal, and appropriate to the Ravnos. Serpentis, on the other hand, is fluff. What was that about the Setites only needing better vampires? (Sorry, not to be argumentative, but I firmly believe that all of the Non-Camarilla clans, including the Giovanni, have a long way to go before being on par with any of the Sabbat or Camarilla clans save the Gangrel antitribu, who got similarly hosed.) Alec Chang, Argumentative gamer.

> However, all the neat cards that the Ravnos can play (except >Horrid Reality and Illusions of the Kindred) can be played by the Gangrel. >I don't count Apparition as a neat card, since you either use it against > a). a serious combat deck, which will blow through with a huge >Potence overstrike or hit repeatedly with Celerity > b) a non-combat deck, in which case (with a Trap) you can spend >multiple rounds slowly pummelling the foe into the ground- getting the >same effect that a combat deck would have in the first two rounds >Apparition is usually too expensive to play unless you can guarantee that >the combat will go on for more than 1 round. It might be useful against >Gangrel and Tremere, unless the Gangrel enhance their strikes somehow, >which they will. Check theese... Only Ravnos can use them: Horrid Reality - with Flame Thrower's and Assault Rifle you can do huge amount of damage... 8with trap you can wait to the third or fourth round, just to make sure he does'nt have any dodge - prevent or S:CE... Sensory Deprivation - This oughta be banned.... To damn powerful =( Illusionary Kindred - try to commit diableri with the illusion =) It works with amaranth =) Rom Gypsy and Ravnos Carneval is very good card's. Fata morgana is a +1 bleed that gangrel don't have. > Ravnos don't hit any harder than the Gangrel. Ravnos hit harder than them all, exept Nosferatu... Horrid Reality - with only 2 assoult rifles in the deck... Dragon Breath Rounds... 6 aggrevated, cost 2 blood. Also try this: Illusions Of The Kindred, Song In The Dark (Animalism, 2 aggrevated), amaranth.... >They don't >intercept significantly better. Just as good as Gangrel. With Ignus Fatus (gives ANOTHER minion -1 stealth) then you intercept even better. >Their damage prevention isn't significantly better. Damage Prevention is even more important in Ravnos Decks than in Gangrel Decks. >Their vote is worse. Are your Gangrel Deck actually voting!? Face it, vote vampire's get punished, just becouse their vote's... I would never add stanislava or angus in my deck since nearly all vote decks in my town is using "Fear Of mekhet".. >Their stealth is worse. Ever seen rom Gypsy ? Ravnos is stealthing just as good as gangrel, sometimes better. >Their untap is worse. Just as good as Nosferatu... >What do they have going for them? Pure Combat or Sensory all your prey's vampires... > Seriously, who can they hold their own against? I'm not seeing >this. Have you actually seen a ravnos deck with 8 sensory deprivation, lots of Murder Of Crows, Drawing Out The beast and Dawn operation? My hard core brujah deck hadnt a chance... My gangrel survived with help of Earth meld... My Skin Of Steel didnt work as good, and I seldom have 3 Skin Of Rock in my hand, to prevent 5 Crows/wolfs..

Alec Chang (te...@lava.net) wrote: : On 2 Dec 1996 15:32:43 GMT, mlan...@io.com (Mark Langsdorf) wrote: : [snip discussion of Ravnos cards and the viability of making a Ravnos : Decl] : >All in all, Ravnos are a very poor clan, ranking with the Settites and the : >Nosferatu (the distinction being that the Settites could be cool with some : >decent vampires, and the Nosferatu are getting better with each : >expansion). Just play a gangrel deck, which is quite acceptable. : > : The Setites could be cool with _just_ better vampires? I beg to : differ. I have made a Set deck that has worked quite well for me. It's good in the 4 player 2v2 team setting as long as it can survive rush combat which can be pretty hairy at times. In a 1on1 it is lethal. I focus on Votes via Awe and Bewitching with a Voter Cap for pool. S:CE is the only combat card in there. Luckily I have access to 4 of both Temptation and Form of Corruption which are both great especially if put in play early. Bleed is always an option as well. For the most part tapping out is a necessity. Get the votes, weird Set stuff, and bleeds through (as well as arsons). It's biggest enemies are heavy bleed decks and well designed rush combat decks. The idea is to drain your opponent as quickly as possible of pool while hopefully snagging a vamp or two in the process. You must be willing to sacrifice vamps which makes Golcondas and Minion Taps nice to keep handy when a vamp is in jeopardy of dying. They don't have the best of cards but the skills are great and work very well together. Votes like KRC, Disputed Territories, Banishments, and so on are always effective no matter who you play. Just my 2 cents... Alex

: appropriate to the Ravnos. Serpentis, on the other hand, is fluff. : What was that about the Setites only needing better vampires? : (Sorry, not to be argumentative, but I firmly believe that all of the : Non-Camarilla clans, including the Giovanni, have a long way to go : before being on par with any of the Sabbat or Camarilla clans save the : Gangrel antitribu, who got similarly hosed.) : Alec Chang, Argumentative gamer. For the most part I tend to agree that the Set cards aren't really that great, but the ones that are good are REALLY good. Temptation pretty much keeps a mid size opposing vamp out of his controller's hands since he is bouncing back and forth (and when u get him u make him rescue or some other things to hurt him). Form of Corruption keeps your prey from getting the edge often (this works well for decks that can't bleed for more than 1 or 2). Mark of Damnation is handy if playing a team game (let your more combat oriented ally have a boost when fighting these damned vampires). Lure of the serpent kills ally decks and is handy in taking a raven spy or bothersome crow. Lastly, Corruption is great for taking weenie vamps or even some 3-4 cap vamps as well as free allies. Serpentis alone won't win you the game (at least not usually) but is complemented well with the two other skills of the Set. Alex

Hello everyone. I know this post asked for stuff on Gangrel/ravnos but I feel that that is not the best mix for the old Ravnos, but it is viable. Anyway, seeing as the Ravnos were getting such a dissing, I thought I would stick up for them (Being a 4cl player, I am used to supporting the underdog :-)). My deck that uses ravnos is mixed with Ventrue for a truely unique combination. It is basically permenents based, getting out multiple muder of crows and wolf companions. Fata morganas are used for stealth, along with the fortuneteller shop and rom gypsies, to get out the permenents (you can have a LOT of permenent stealth out). It then uses these permenents and trap combo's (most of these have been listed before) to kill it's preys vamps. The ventrue votes allow diablerie and dominate (which three Ravnos have) can be used for bleed bounce and additional bleed damage. It has done very well against all but heavy intercept decks and with the addition of some rush looks to be one of my better decks. So possible to create very good decks using the Ravnos, comparing them to the settites is VERY unfair! As for Gangrel/ravnos, perhaps just put in say two Darius styx, 2 salbatore bokkenagro and maybe a Joquina Amaya to round off with some good solid gangrel (raven, Zach etc). Use Animalism for untap, light intercept, retainers and carrion crows/terror frenzy. Use fortitude for damage prevention (what else:-). You then can use protean for aggro damage, form of misting and combat control plus have the advantages of Chimestries superior intercept and bleed modifier. You can then either use this as a rush deck or some kind of bruise and bleed deck. Not a great deck but not bad none the less, with a bit of refing it could be a game winner. Hope that helps slightly. LOS

Well, this is my Ravnos deck. I finally figured out how it wins a couple of days ago. Frankly, it sits on its' ass for a few turns, just building up stuff and getting retainers, trying to look puny and non-threatening. It works best in a three player game-not pressuring its' prey, and threatening its' predator just enough to make it worthwhile for them not to beat on me too much. When the other people around the table have taken enough damage beating on each other, wasting their votes and combat cards, I smack them with Smiling Jack, or a pumped up Crimson Sentinel. I feel that playing other Methuselahs against each other fits well with the spirit of the Ravnos. If I can't, then the deck dies pretty quickly, either versus votes, or stealthed bleed, or a nastier rush combat deck. It's fun even when it loses. Crypt: Basilia Kostantin Dragos or Natalia Sarisha Veliku Vaclav Petalengro Joaquina Amaya Andrei Puxon Salbatore Bokkengro Tsigane Leon Sasha Miklos Navar McLaren Library: Sudden Reversal 2 Animalism 2 Chimerstry 2 KRCG and London Evening Star Park HG Fortuneteller's Shop Heidelburg Castle Blood Doll 2 Pentex Subversion Mob Connections Rotschreck Smiling Jack Bang Nakh 2 Sport Bike 2 Sengir Dagger Crimson Sentinel Zip Gun DBR 2 Apparition 5 Mass Reality 3 Ignis Fatuus 2 Veiled Sight 2 Fata Morgana 2 Far Fatuus Horrid Reality Illusions of the Kindred Rat's Warning 4 Carrion Crows 4 Cat's Guidance 5 Song of Serenity 2 Scorpion Sting 2 Raven Spy 2 Murder of Crows Skin of Steel 4 Skin of Rock 3 Unflinching Persistence 2 Indomitability 2 Restoration 2 Undead Persistence Trap 4 Bum's Rush 2 Arson 2 WWEF 4 Taste of Vitae 3 -Nathan Harada

If you were to use Drawing Out the Beast and Dawn Operation, and the opposing vampire tried something rude like S:CE, would he still take the point of unpreventable agg damage?

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | It's not the same when I'm http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | not in the holodeck Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | - Riker

In article <sylviam-0812...@ehdup-m-9.rmt.net.pitt.edu>, Marius Pontmercy <syl...@pitt.edu> writes >If you were to use Drawing Out the Beast and Dawn Operation, and the >opposing vampire tried something rude like S:CE, would he still take the >point of unpreventable agg damage? I know it's not really on the subject - but what about doing the same with Catatonic Fear (from Sabbat) - does the damage apply because the combat never reaches Damage Resolution? James Coupe.