"Concealed Weapon" and "Disguised Weapon" (but real Q's too :) )

What is the point of Concealed Weapon? Disguised Weapon does the exact same thing, but better. Concealed Weapon [Jyhad] Cardtype: Combat Discipline: Obfuscate Equip this minion with a weapon card from your hand at the beginning of a round. Pay weapon's equip cost from blood pool, as normal. The weapon cannot cost more than 2 pool or do more than 4 damage. Disguised Weapon [Jyhad, V:TES, Sabbat, SW] Cardtype: Combat Discipline: Obfuscate Only usable before range is chosen if you have a weapon card in your hand. Equip this vampire with that weapon (and pay cost to equip as normal). (S) As above, but usable when choosing a strike. Er.. after cutting and pasting from the site, I realize that Concealed Weapon was immediately discontinued, so perhaps it answers my question. But, perhaps Concealed Weapon was intended to be a disciplineless card? Anyway, it's wallpaper now. Although (remembering one of my previous posts), I think it would be hilarious and shocking to create a deck based around Concealed Chainsaws... :) Hmm.. this brings up another legitimate question, though.. Can a minion hold multiple weapons, and use different "only use once" weapons for different strikes (Additional Strikes in the same round)? i.e. Can I wear two Brass Knuckles, and punch twice?

Jozxyqk wrote: > Er.. after cutting and pasting from the site, I realize that Concealed Weapon > was immediately discontinued, so perhaps it answers my question. > > But, perhaps Concealed Weapon was intended to be a disciplineless card? Yes. WotC has said as much. > Hmm.. this brings up another legitimate question, though.. > > Can a minion hold multiple weapons, and use different "only use once" weapons > for different strikes (Additional Strikes in the same round)? > i.e. Can I wear two Brass Knuckles, and punch twice? Yes. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

>===== Original Message From LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> ===== >Jozxyqk wrote: >> Er.. after cutting and pasting from the site, I realize that Concealed Weapon >> was immediately discontinued, so perhaps it answers my question. >> >> But, perhaps Concealed Weapon was intended to be a disciplineless card? > >Yes. WotC has said as much. > [snip] > >-- >LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. >Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: >http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Maybe could we errata Concealed Weapon to be disciplineless?? It's always been one of those things that I've felt would be super-cool if it could be fixed. Could we take a vote to see who else would like to see this? Todd Dunn V:EKN Prince of Noblesville, IN USA "How can you call me evil? Have you spoken to God today? What did he say?" "Pledge Your Allegiance" - Suicidal Tendencies ------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at: http://MailAndNews.com Create a new mailbox, or access your existing IMAP4 or POP3 mailbox from anywhere with just a web browser. ------------------------------------------------------------

Todd Dunn <toten...@MailAndNews.com> writes: > Maybe could we errata Concealed Weapon to be disciplineless?? The current Rules Team have a stated position of not upgrading weak cards via errata. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "Definitely a woman" - www.thespark.com/ Standard disclaimers apply to this post. Full written details available upon request. Your statutory rights are not affected.

One may think obfuscate needs this type of "exclusive" cards. It really seems good that way : if everyone can equip with a 44 magnum during combat, why use ever obfuscate except for stealth ? Do you really want to see Blasing guns Masika deck or Miller has bang nakhs every day ? In my mind, giving every minion this ability is like making a disciplineless "wolf claws", usable by allies. Yuk. "Todd Dunn" <toten...@MailAndNews.com> a écrit dans le message news: 3A89...@MailAndNews.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

Todd Dunn wrote: > >===== Original Message From LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> ===== > >Jozxyqk wrote: > >> But, perhaps Concealed Weapon was intended to be a disciplineless card? > >Yes. WotC has said as much. > > Maybe could we errata Concealed Weapon to be disciplineless?? > It's always been one of those things that I've felt would be super-cool if > it > could be fixed. > Could we take a vote to see who else would like to see this? No new errata will be issued to empower wallpaper - there's enough errata already. The existence of OOP wallpaper isn't enough of a problem to warrant more errata. *If* the card ever gets reprinted, then perhaps it would be changed so as not to be wallpaper (probably so, or there'd be no point in reprinting it). (But note: that doesn't mean it will get reprinted) [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <3A89...@MailAndNews.com>, Todd Dunn [ quoted text not captured ] This is a subject-path that has been walked down before. Even though the WotC have stated that the card was intended to be a discipline-less, it has been previously posted that creating errata to improve a card would not occur. Though I can understand the reasoning for the rule, I am personally hoping that eventually White-Wolf will create a card that makes Concealed Weapon meet what it was initially intended, a disciplineless card. There has been some suggested inputs that is Concealed Weapon was brought out this way, it should also have some limits placed upon it to prevent abuse. One limit has been to make the weapon in question be non-unique, thus an Ivory Bow could not be acquired via Concealed Weapon but a Stake or .44 Magnum could. My personal take is in favor of this type of limit if the card reprinted in a future set. If not Final Nights, then maybe in a future set reprinting the Camarilla clans. Michael Eichler Prince of Ramstein ----- Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web ----- http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam. If this or other posts made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email ab...@newsone.net

michael...@ramstein.af.mil writes: > should also have some limits placed upon it to prevent abuse. One limit has > been to make the weapon in question be non-unique, thus an Ivory Bow could > not be acquired via Concealed Weapon but a Stake or .44 Magnum could. Which probably makes a case for a (potentially virtually identical - "Very Hidden Weapon", "Not Easily Seen Weapon") different card being printed. Any number of different mechanics can work with it, not just combat - an action modifier after a successful equip action, a combat card restricted to certain phases of combat, an action card (equip with a weapon from your hand, this action does not tap you) or whatever. I'm tempted to make the action "free" (a free untap), myself, simply because I like Obfuscate still having the bite of surprise value. > My personal take is in favor of this type of limit if the card reprinted in a > future set. If not Final Nights, then maybe in a future set reprinting the > Camarilla clans. It would make some sense in FN. The Ravnos do a few nice tricks with equipment occassionally, though the Assamites have Disguised Weapon at their disposal for Bang Nakh or whatever. [ quoted text not captured ]

> michael...@ramstein.af.mil writes: > >> should also have some limits placed upon it to prevent abuse. One limit has >> been to make the weapon in question be non-unique, thus an Ivory Bow could >> not be acquired via Concealed Weapon but a Stake or .44 Magnum could. > > Which probably makes a case for a (potentially virtually identical - > "Very Hidden Weapon", "Not Easily Seen Weapon") different card being > printed. Any number of different mechanics can work with it, not just > combat - an action modifier after a successful equip action, a combat > card restricted to certain phases of combat, an action card (equip > with a weapon from your hand, this action does not tap you) or > whatever. > > I'm tempted to make the action "free" (a free untap), myself, simply > because I like Obfuscate still having the bite of surprise value. I know it doesn't make any sense, but I'd be happy with the card if it said "ally" instead of "minion." I don't care if Arms Dealers or the Gypsies get guns; what I worry about is 8 1-caps Computer Hacking down my throat, and any one of them could have a Saturday Night Special with Dragon's Breath Rounds. It would be a nice boon to help out the allies, which could (still) use a little more oomph. -- Pat Ricochet Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta

>This is a subject-path that has been walked down before. Even though the >WotC >have stated that the card was intended to be a discipline-less, it has been >previously posted that creating errata to improve a card would not occur. >Though I can understand the reasoning for the rule, I am personally hoping >that eventually White-Wolf will create a card that makes Concealed Weapon >meet what it was initially intended, a disciplineless card. There has been >some suggested inputs that is Concealed Weapon was brought out this way, it >should also have some limits placed upon it to prevent abuse. One limit has >been to make the weapon in question be non-unique, thus an Ivory Bow could >not be acquired via Concealed Weapon but a Stake or .44 Magnum could. I know that WotC and WW have a tendency to errata and tone down power cards and not to help out or improve wallpapered cards. But I'm curious about some of the "changes" made for Sabbat War. Yeah, some of them did limit cards. Legacy of Pander was neutered and many cards were reworded to prevent stacking. So this seems consistent with toning down (instead of toning up). But how about other situations? Blood Brother Ambush and Ghouled Street Thug were given strength. They helped improve Aggressive Tactics by eliminating the Sabbat requirement. Superior Enchant Kindred was given the +1 stealth. And requirements for Orgy of Blood and War Party were lightened up. So what gives? It's not as if these were misprints or the toning down of cards. Instead, it seems that White Wolf actually did hep improve less useful cards. It could be argued that some of these changes would be appropriate logical or thematically, or this was done to follow the designer's intent, but then the same arguments could be made for Concealed Weapon. So...doesn't the improvement of some wallpapered (and some non-wallpapered) cards in Sabbat War set a strong precedent for doing the same for Concealed Weapon? Halcyan 2 BTW: And I just have to say that I STILL like the whole Prince and Archbishop attacking each other as a (D) action thing. That was much cooler than them contesting the same city IMO. =)