SHAWN: Q: Fading Glimpse of a Banished vampire

Shawn (or any repesentative of WotC who reads this group): If my vampire with Pulse of Canaille and Sengir Dagger, having been the victim of Shackles of Ekindu and Phobia, is Banished to my uncontrolled region, and then receiving a Tomb of Ramses III from me, is returned to my Crypt via Fading Glimpse, what happens to all of the cards one him? (Since no one from WotC is reading this group, I pose the question mainly as an excersize for any Rulemongers-in-training out there :-). It's pretty obvious that all of the cards will fall off (and return to their owner's ash heaps) with the exception of the Tomb, which is only burned when the target becomes controlled - although it has the (erroneous?) "place on vampire" text which should mean that it's burned as well. But, there's no official position on this - only on what happens to card on *burned* minions, so it is quite acceptable to say that the cards remain with the crypted vampire, a la an extension of the instructions on Banishment (since no other instructions or rules exist to counter this instruction). Except that Fading Glimpse says to return the blood on the vampire to the would-be controller - so you could also extend that text to "return the cards on that vampire to the controller" and let the controller redistribute the cards a la Shepherd's Innocence. --- 'Course, this is all rather elementary, since the likelyhood of the vampire on the bottom of the crypt becoming controlled is small (unless the vampire has Serpentis and is sought after by "Summon the Serpent"). -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Clap on! <clap> <clap> http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | Clap off! <clap> <cla+W." Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | ^Ejq#xe>4NO CARRIER

On 16 Sep 1996, L. Scott Johnson wrote: > Shawn (or any repesentative of WotC who reads this group): > > If my vampire with Pulse of Canaille and Sengir Dagger, having > been the victim of Shackles of Ekindu and Phobia, is Banished > to my uncontrolled region, and then receiving a Tomb of Ramses > III from me, is returned to my Crypt via Fading Glimpse, what > happens to all of the cards one him? > > (Since no one from WotC is reading this group, I pose the question > mainly as an excersize for any Rulemongers-in-training out there :-). > > It's pretty obvious that all of the cards will fall off (and return > to their owner's ash heaps) with the exception of the Tomb, which > is only burned when the target becomes controlled - although it has > the (erroneous?) "place on vampire" text which should mean that it's > burned as well. > > But, there's no official position on this - only on what happens to > card on *burned* minions, so it is quite acceptable to say that the > cards remain with the crypted vampire, a la an extension of the > instructions on Banishment (since no other instructions or rules > exist to counter this instruction). Except that Fading Glimpse says > to return the blood on the vampire to the would-be controller - so > you could also extend that text to "return the cards on that vampire > to the controller" and let the controller redistribute the cards > a la Shepherd's Innocence. This is a joke, right? Have we really reached the point where, because ther is no 'official clarification' done regarding an intuitively obvious chain of events that one cannot simply make a personal decision that is fair and reasonable? Of course the tomb is burned. All the cards are burned, Dave. They're all burned. Dave, all the cards are burned. Yes, Dave, even the tomb is burned. Burned, Dave, are all the cards. [ quoted text not captured ]

Malcolm McCallum <mcca...@pacificcoast.net> writes: >On 16 Sep 1996, L. Scott Johnson wrote: >> If my vampire with Pulse of Canaille and Sengir Dagger, having >> been the victim of Shackles of Ekindu and Phobia, is Banished >> to my uncontrolled region, and then receiving a Tomb of Ramses >> III from me, is returned to my Crypt via Fading Glimpse, what >> happens to all of the cards one him? >> >> It's pretty obvious that all of the cards will fall off (and return >> to their owner's ash heaps) with the exception of the Tomb, which >> is only burned when the target becomes controlled - although it has >> the (erroneous?) "place on vampire" text which should mean that it's >> burned as well. >> >> But, there's no official position on this - only on what happens to >> card on *burned* minions, so it is quite acceptable to say that the >> cards remain with the crypted vampire, a la an extension of the >> instructions on Banishment (since no other instructions or rules >> exist to counter this instruction). Except that Fading Glimpse says >> to return the blood on the vampire to the would-be controller - so >> you could also extend that text to "return the cards on that vampire >> to the controller" and let the controller redistribute the cards >> a la Shepherd's Innocence. >This is a joke, right? Have we really reached the point where, because >ther is no 'official clarification' done regarding an intuitively obvious >chain of events that one cannot simply make a personal decision that is >fair and reasonable? Of course the tomb is burned. All the cards are >burned, Dave. They're all burned. Dave, all the cards are burned. Yes, >Dave, even the tomb is burned. Burned, Dave, are all the cards. No, it is not a joke. It is a request to clear up a rather small concern in order to understand the mechanics of the game as a whole. Some of us have reached a point where we understand a great deal about the game, and therefore notice the points that could lead to debate. Those of us that reach this point prefer to have the gray areas cleared away officially before they become exposed in a tournament situation (where judges cannot be relied on to make sensible calls on even the most "obvious" matters, like bouncing a Return to Innocence). <peddling it to the cheap seats:> Of course one can make a personal decision, as I illustrated. How that helps clear things up, I don't follow. A personal decision of mine is that "Of course you can play a Jyhad-text 2nd tradition un an untapped Prince, Dave. Dave, untapped Princes can still police their domain..." But try that "obvious" line in a tournament and see if the person being blocked is agreeable. <end peddle> Some of us approach the game intelligently and have learned the value of debate. I posted the obvious, knee-jerk response to get it out of the way so that the group wouldn't be glutted with a slew of posts making that (obvious) point. I was only mostly successful, apparently. I also posted the reasoning that leads to other responses in the hopes of illuminating how this really is a gray area. Unfortunately, I apparently failed to use sufficient light for some myopic readers, and for that, I apologize. [ quoted text not captured ]

L. Scott Johnson wrote: > > Shawn (or any repesentative of WotC who reads this group): > > If my vampire with Pulse of Canaille and Sengir Dagger, having > been the victim of Shackles of Ekindu and Phobia, is Banished > to my uncontrolled region, and then receiving a Tomb of Ramses > III from me, is returned to my Crypt via Fading Glimpse, what > happens to all of the cards one him? All the cards (sans Tomb) go to the ash heap. > (Since no one from WotC is reading this group, I pose the question > mainly as an excersize for any Rulemongers-in-training out there :-). I guess you're right--these messages just magically appear in my computer via fairy-dust! ;) > It's pretty obvious that all of the cards will fall off (and return > to their owner's ash heaps) with the exception of the Tomb, which > is only burned when the target becomes controlled - although it has > the (erroneous?) "place on vampire" text which should mean that it's > burned as well. Erroneous is correct. The Tomb is being considered by the rules team as we speak. Until then, use what I say above (sans fairy-dust) as the ruling. -- >>> Shawn F. Carnes Game Designer and Developer, Wizards of the Coast, Inc WotC NetRep for rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad ************************************************************* "Which one of you claims to be the craziest? Which one the biggest loony? Who runs these card games? Who's the bull goose loony here?" --McMurphy, "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"