HttB Reprint

Hello LSJ, Oscar and whomsoever else from CCP/WW peruses this message board. As your product for HttB sold out in record time, and is this is a good indication that it is sought after, and as just about everyone I know who plays has not got NEARLY enough of these cards, is there any possibility of CCP/WW attempting to gain some more profit out of this apparently highly popular set and reprinting it for those who have not managed as yet to get their hands on any boxes at all? Thank you. PS sorry for the lengthy sentence.

[ quoted text not captured ] If this were Facebook, I'd click 'like'.

On Apr 13, 3:22 pm, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello LSJ, Oscar and whomsoever else from CCP/WW peruses this message > board. I'm not any of them. > As your product for HttB sold out in record time, Only the starters. Boosters are plentiful at all levels of distribution. > and is this is a > good indication that it is sought after, and as just about everyone I > know who plays has not got NEARLY enough of these cards, is there any > possibility of CCP/WW attempting to gain some more profit out of this > apparently highly popular set and reprinting it for those who have not > managed as yet to get their hands on any boxes at all? Any possibility? Yes. Is it likely that diverting funds from other projects to reprinting these starter boxes is in the plan? Unlikely.

[ quoted text not captured ] It may not be likely, but I have hopes. My reasoning is that of history repeats itself. The starters only helped some people as most didn't get a crack at them. Too bad as the prices of some of the uber rare cards on ebay that were reprinted in that set will most likely see there lowest prices at this juncture. I bet they go back up and then we are back at square one.

On Apr 13, 9:22 pm, RoddPrime <roddpr...@gmail.com> wrote: > It may not be likely, but I have hopes. My reasoning is that of > history repeats itself. The starters only helped some people as most > didn't get a crack at them. Maybe. But since the starters contain no starter-only cards, there seems to be no compelling reason for White Wolf to reprint this particular starter set. They can use the same in-demand cards as a selling point for the next batch of starters, or other set containing reprints. Sadly, the moral of the story seems to be that overpowered cards, like Villein, are good for business (at least in the short run).

> Sadly, the moral of the story seems to be that overpowered cards, like > Villein, are good for business (at least in the short run). I doubt this is revelatory information for the powers that be at CCP/ WW. The whole notion of card "rarity" and hard to find "chase" cards has been in the CCG phenotype since its inception with Magic the Gathering. I can only ponder how much the history of Magic would have changed if things like Moxen, the Black Lotus, and the power blue cards had been commons instead of rares. Or even more, if all the cards were equally represented on a card sheet, so all the cards were all the same "commonality". To be honest, I applaud WW - at least they have the decency to reprint previous edition cards that are hard to find, thereby saving their customer base from the indignities of having to pay $100's of dollars for "power" cards like Deflection, or Govern the Unaligned, or Villein. I remember when I first started several years back, the notion of ever finding enough Immortal Grapples and Freak Drives to play a deck seemed fantastical. Now if only they would reprint Parity Shift and Sensory Deprivation - I'm sure Kevin M. would approve whole heartedly. :-D -Asif Chaudhry

> I can only ponder how much the history of Magic would have changed if > things like Moxen, the Black Lotus, and the power blue cards had been > commons instead of rares. They weren't worth squat for quite a long time after being printed. When 4th came out they were selling for the outrageous prices of 40-50 bucks.(poor unwanted Mox Emerald) > Now if only they would reprint Parity Shift and Sensory Deprivation - > I'm sure Kevin M. would approve whole heartedly. :-D Forgot Movement of the Mind.

Blooded Sand wrote: As your product for HttB sold out in record time, and is this is a > good indication that it is sought after, and as just about everyone I > know who plays has not got NEARLY enough of these cards, is there any > possibility of CCP/WW attempting to gain some more profit out of this > apparently highly popular set and reprinting it for those who have not > managed as yet to get their hands on any boxes at all? > Problem with starters is that after the first rush, they don't continue to really sell that well, at least IME as a store owner. So most publishers are overjoyed they have sold out, as are no doubt retailers. I also have a feeling, although not backed up by hard evidence, that starters are more costly to make, due to more steps in the manufacturing process - note how each starter is wrapped in 3 layers between the display box and the cards themselves; compared with boosters with only 1 layer of material between box and cards. Boosters are more expensive in terms of R&D (at least WW ones are, because starters have very few new cards), but I think in production are less costly. Also, boosters have a longer shelf life, particularly because they have new cards; also due to drafts etc. So the long story short, I wouldn't expect to see HttB starters reprinted any time soon. Sorry Blooded. best - chris

Obtenebration wrote: >> I can only ponder how much the history of Magic would have changed if >> things like Moxen, the Black Lotus, and the power blue cards had been >> commons instead of rares. > > They weren't worth squat for quite a long time after being printed. > When Revised came out they were selling for the outrageous prices of > 40-50 bucks.(poor unwanted Mox Emerald) > > > >> Now if only they would reprint Parity Shift and Sensory Deprivation - >> I'm sure Kevin M. would approve whole heartedly. :-D >> > > Forgot Movement of the Mind. And Police Department.

On Apr 14, 4:45 am, Obtenebration <obtenebrat...@obtenebration.org> wrote: > Forgot Movement of the Mind. Ha ha. Talk about role reversal! Between the end of the WotC era and until Camarilla Edition, it was Movement of the Mind that was readily available and Apportation which was ridiculously hard to get (and going for insane prices). But now it's Apportation that is easily acquirable while Movement of the Mind is harder to get for newer players (though at least it's not super expensive).

On Apr 13, 11:23 pm, OldFan <asif.i.chaud...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Sadly, the moral of the story seems to be that overpowered cards, like > > Villein, are good for business (at least in the short run). > > I doubt this is revelatory information for the powers that be at CCP/ > WW. > > The whole notion of card "rarity" and hard to find "chase" cards has > been in the CCG phenotype since its inception with Magic the > Gathering. I am familiar with the law of supply and demand, and its relevance to pricing and sales. This is a large part of why rare cards often go for high prices. But this has little to do with game balance. Balance is, in the long term, good for the game, just as imbalance, in the long run, hurts the game. An in-demand rare need not be imbalanced. Villein (besides not being rare) is an overpowered card -- one that effectively replaces a card that was already very good to begin with. If this strategy of escalation is continued, the long-term results will not be good.

> game. An in-demand rare need not be imbalanced. Agree. > > Villein (besides not being rare) is an overpowered card -- one that > effectively replaces a card that was already very good to begin with. Agree.

On Apr 16, 5:35 pm, John Whelan <jwjbwhe...@gmail.com> wrote: > Villein (besides not being rare) is an overpowered card -- one that > effectively replaces a card that was already very good to begin with. > If this strategy of escalation is continued, the long-term results > will not be good. There is, of course, no strategy of escalation. Villein is not intended to be an escalation, and doesn't seem particularly overpowered (at least, not moreso than the card it replaces). It effectively replaces a card that was good with a card that is different, and limited in the way that the former card was most open to abuse.

[ quoted text not captured ] My FLGS has had issues get ANY FURTHER cards... boosters, or starters and there is some SERIOUS demand for those... we have two or three players looking to buy 2 or 3 boxes each plus a raft of newer players who would potentially consider buying half a box or so... We're considering looking overseas (but for loyalty reasons would prefer to get it from the FLGS)... but even then it is proving hard to get 6+ boxes. This is excluding the probably 4 or 5 boxes of starters that people already want but can't get. I emplore those same powers that be, to do another print-run. There is plenty of existing demand for the starters and booster...

On Apr 18, 10:53 am, Juggernaut1981 <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > My FLGS has had issues get ANY FURTHER cards... boosters, or starters > and there is some SERIOUS demand for those... we have two or three > players looking to buy 2 or 3 boxes each plus a raft of newer players > who would potentially consider buying half a box or so... We're > considering looking overseas (but for loyalty reasons would prefer to > get it from the FLGS)... but even then it is proving hard to get 6+ > boxes. This is excluding the probably 4 or 5 boxes of starters that > people already want but can't get. White Wolf, or actually the fulfillment company that takes care of the WW order processing, still has a very good supply of Heirs boosters. At least they did have a week or two ago. I SERIOUSLY doubt that these would've sold out as the booster print runs usually last for several YEARS. Then again, the number one hobby industry distributor Alliance currently seems not to have any Heirs products at all in any of their four warehouses. They furthermore have marked all the Heirs products as TOS which is normally used to indicate that the item in question is at leat temporarily not available from the manufacturer. I suspect that Alliance has either been temporarily surprised by the demand and will be getting a restock soonish OR that they've sold out and are happy with that having no plans for doing a restock (the TOS marking seems unfortunately to support the latter...). As Alliance is used as the main distributor for most FLGSs I fear that this'll cause serious problems in the availability. Or based on your comments, has already caused the problems... The only other hobby distributor whose availability I'm able to check is ACD Distribution and it would seem that none of their 3 warehouses currently have any Heirs product available. If your FLGS does business with Diamond Comic Distributors they currently do seem to have the Heirs Booster Display (Diamond product code SEP091639) available. > I emplore those same powers that be, to do another print-run. There > is plenty of existing demand for the starters and booster... Boosters are, AFAIK, available at manufacturer level. The problem seems to lie in the distributor level which is sold out and not (interested/willing?) to restock. Bear in mind that traditionally the the vast majority of US VTES sales have not been from FLGSs as players have wanted to purchase these from the online discounters who might be willing to sell product for ridiculous margin. Perhaps the hobby distributors are now satisfied with the fact that they have sold out and are not willing to restcok because the vast majority of sales happen immediately after release and they don't want to have slower moving stock in their hands? Especially as VTES hasn't had that good a track history of sales through them. I seriously doubt that Heirs Starters will ever be reprinted. (I at least am unaware that any VTES starters have ever been reprinted) Tough! Then again, here in Finland we have a solid supply of the Heirs Starters that I estimate will last for approximately for an eternity. Or at least half. Cheers, Janne / Lönkka Company buyer for the local WW distributor

[ quoted text not captured ] This post is not based on cold hard provable facts, but on conversations with my FLGS and with other players who go to other FLGSs at different times, etc, etc. I'm from Australia, AFAIK there are limited distributors in Australia and ALL of those distributors are connected with a specific retail chain. There is no separation between distributor and final-seller. They can make the life of FLGSs very hard if they want and I don't know if my FLGS can get the cards anywhere easily. As a playgroup we've been thinking of importing separately to our FLGS (which is a last resort for us) but there seem to be no boxes of starters available and we'd honestly prefer to be paying one lot of shipping for all of the boxes of starters and boosters we would buy.

On Apr 19, 9:22 am, Juggernaut1981 <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I'm from Australia OK, that also kinda explains things. Australian situation is AFAIK, erm, bizarre. One Australian Rage player once told me that the local game store just wouldn't order Rage cards for her playgroup "because the local stores know what you want better than yourself". Apparently this wasn't the first time that she had encountered such attitude/"customer service" at local stores. Sheesh! But I can't see how WW making a reprint on product that is still available from them (Heirs Boosters) would help if the problem lies in the local distribution... Having a solid Heirs stock here in Finland doesn't really help you as the shipping costs alone would probably make the order unfeasible. My pal Damien at Paradigm Infinitum in Singapore is substantially closer to you though. Apparently he currently has quite low stock on the product due to local demand, but is expecting a restock soon. Here's the URL: http://www.pi.com.sg Hope this helps, Janne / Lönkka

Juggernaut1981 wrote: > I'm from Australia, AFAIK there are limited distributors in > Australia and ALL of those distributors are connected with > a specific retail chain. There is no separation between distributor > and final-seller. They can make the life of FLGSs very hard if they > want and I don't know if my FLGS can get the cards anywhere easily. > As a playgroup we've been thinking of importing separately to our > FLGS (which is a last resort for us) but there seem to be no boxes > of starters available and we'd honestly prefer to be paying one lot > of shipping for all of the boxes of starters and boosters we would > buy. There are several boxes of HTTB starters available here: http://www.potomacdist.com/list.asp?code=1640 Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/

[ quoted text not captured ] I see one box, damaged, of starters. what you seeing that i am not?

Blooded Sand wrote: > "Kevin M." wrote: >> Juggernaut1981 wrote: >>> I'm from Australia, AFAIK there are limited distributors in >>> Australia and ALL of those distributors are connected with >>> a specific retail chain. There is no separation between >>> distributor and final-seller. They can make the life of FLGSs >>> very hard if they want and I don't know if my FLGS can get the >>> cards anywhere easily. As a playgroup we've been thinking of >>> importing separately to our FLGS (which is a last resort for us) >>> but there seem to be no boxes of starters available and we'd >>> honestly prefer to be paying one lot of shipping for all of the >>> boxes of starters and boosters we would buy. >> >> There are several boxes of HTTB starters available >> here:http://www.potomacdist.com/list.asp?code=1640 > > I see one box, damaged, of starters. what you seeing that i am not? Correct. Sorry, my cache hadn't refreshed like it should've. :P [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] This is pretty funny. Australian gaming stores are on the whole... unscrupulous bastards. I recognise there are overheads, I recognise there needs to be a profit made but every store I checked out in Australia chose to sell their stock for more than TWICE THE PRICE of exactly the same product from Potomac. Shipping inclusive. All this, and Potomac ship their stuff here faster than I would get it from mail order in my own country. bahahah. It's a joke. Customer service in this country is also a joke. I take my hat off to the guys at Potomac, and recommend them in all respects. I would be loyal to the local gaming stores if they weren't blatantly trying to rip us off blindly, if potomac didnt exist, or eBay, or Steve in Brisbane, there is no way I would be playing vtes at all. Sad but true. -Timmy

[ quoted text not captured ] > -Timmy- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Timmy, To be honest, it's not the end-stores... its the importers. Since all of the importers run their own stores, they're basically "allowed" to gouge the market. My FLGS is not one of the "importer" stores so they get screwed by the importers who haven't adjusted their prices to reflect the growing value of the $AUD. My FLGS gives us bulk discounts on boxes of cards compared to boosters... and that's really good of him. He's been doing it for ages and we keep on buying because he's always been like that and provides us a free venue to play every week.

[ quoted text not captured ] Ya I know how the system works, I used to work in the field ;) Most stores here have way too much mark up on their product. It's been like this in Australia since the early-mid nineties when magic came out. Nothing has changed. I don't see why I should pay twice as much from a local store to play an already rather expensive game, when I can order from Potomac AND get better service from The United States. If you don't mind me asking, what is your store, where is it? How much do they charge? There is a local store here in Newcastle that stocks the occasional box. At 8 bucks a booster or 220 a box, they can &(*& my (*^$ and go ((*^&(*& a dead (*&%. So to speak.

On Apr 20, 6:20 am, timmy <twat...@tpg.com.au> wrote: > I take my hat off to the guys at Potomac, and recommend them in all > respects. > > I would be loyal to the local gaming stores if they weren't blatantly > trying to rip us off blindly, if potomac didnt exist, or eBay, or Steve > in Brisbane, there is no way I would be playing vtes at all. While I'm all for reasonably priced items delivered promptly to the customer I'm certainly not for online discounters who devalue product by selling it with almost nonexistent margins. Say, in Potomac's case with margins 3,5 times less when compared to margins when sold with suggested retail price... I think that it is not that different from, say, if a Philippine immigrant worker in Australia volunteered to work with annual salary of 17500 AUD (when the national average annual salary apparently is 62000 AUD) I assume that you wouldn't be that happy if your boss came to you Timmy and told you that you were a ripoff since he could sack you and hire the obviously cheaper Philippine to replace you. Your boss would be loyal to you and not give you the boot if only you'd be prepared to slave away with the smaller wage that the immigrant was prepared to. But I digress Janne / Lönkka

[ quoted text not captured ] My point was, Australian stores charge too much, not that I am going to Potomac simply because they are the cheapest. I recognise that there needs to be a markup, I recognise there are overheads in a store and a profit must be made. I believe I said that before? But 200 bucks for a box of cards? It is simply too much. > But I digress > Janne / Lönkka Not at all. -Tim

On Apr 20, 1:18 pm, timmy <twat...@tpg.com.au> wrote: > But 200 bucks for a box of cards? It is simply too much. Yeah... 200 AU$ amounts to a bit under 140 euros with the current exchange rates... that *is* highway robbery. A box of boosters costs a round 100 euros (about $135) in game stores over here; sure, it's still more expensive than what the U.S. folks tend to pay (afaik) but much more reasonable. -Petri

> While I'm all for reasonably priced items delivered promptly to the > customer I'm certainly not for online discounters who devalue product > by selling it with almost nonexistent margins. Say, in Potomac's case > with margins 3,5 times less when compared to margins when sold with > suggested retail price... This is a valid point. I try to buy booster packs at my FLGS, but then it is easier in the US since there is not a mark-up from retail price. However, the price per booster at retail here is roughly 75%-100% more than buying a box from the internet. This is not enough to make me think I should not buy from the FLGS. Now, if it were 200-300 percent more I would have to rethink that position. I will buy from the internet when my FLGS can't or won't get the cards I want (usually older sets). > > I think that it is not that different from, say, if a Philippine > immigrant worker in Australia volunteered to work with annual salary > of 17500 AUD (when the national average annual salary apparently is > 62000 AUD) > > I assume that you wouldn't be that happy if your boss came to you > Timmy and told you that you were a ripoff since he could sack you and > hire the obviously cheaper Philippine to replace you. Your boss would > be loyal to you and not give you the boot if only you'd be prepared to > slave away with the smaller wage that the immigrant was prepared to. I think you could look at this another way. Your boss can hire someone to work 30-40 hours a week at 17500 AUD (as per your example)or your boss can keep you at 62000 AUD (as per your example) if you continue to work 70-80 hours a week. So really you are being paid almost the same per hour, yet doing the work of two or three people. At some point you have to decide; "Am I being loyal, or Am I being screwed?" I think my example uses time in similitude to money. You can work roughly three times as many hours to make the same as three other workers - in the same way that you can pay three times as much to get the same amount of cards as someone else. At some point, Timmy has to decide do I stay "loyal" to the local game store or are they going overboard with thier prices and screwing me? -Andy

> My point was, Australian stores charge too much, not that I am going to > Potomac simply because they are the cheapest. I understand what you are saying, it is unfortunate that you have to buy from a place so far away but if it is the only way to show the store or distributor(importer?) that you know you are being gouged - what else is there? You have to decide what to do. Maybe Juggernaut knows a better option for you in Australia. >I recognise that there > needs to be a markup, I recognise there are overheads in a store and a > profit must be made. I believe I said that before? Again, I agree. I will always try to support my FLGS as long as they don't make it impossible or unreasonable for me to do so. -Andy

TorranceCircle wrote: >> My point was, Australian stores charge too much, not that I am going to >> Potomac simply because they are the cheapest. > > I understand what you are saying, it is unfortunate that you have to > buy from a place so far away but if it is the only way to show the > store or distributor(importer?) that you know you are being gouged - > what else is there? You have to decide what to do. Maybe Juggernaut > knows a better option for you in Australia. I live in Canberra, Australia. there's not much options, really, depending on where you live. > >I recognise that there >> needs to be a markup, I recognise there are overheads in a store and a >> profit must be made. I believe I said that before? > > Again, I agree. I will always try to support my FLGS as long as they > don't make it impossible or unreasonable for me to do so. We tried to support our FLGS, but the whole importer/distributor having their own retail outlet meant we could mail-order stuff (from within Australia) significant;y cheaper than the FLGS. But we still tried to buy from the FLGS. But they also wanted to charge us to play games there....when you're a bunch of poor students every dollar saved is fairly important. So we started playing at my house, and buying online. Then the FLGS stopped stocking vtes because the vtes scene in Canberra 'was dead', apparently. But i guess that was just the retail vtes channel was dead. Then the importer/distributor's mail order prices started to sneak upwards significantly, especially considering how well the australian dollar was doing against the US dollar...so potomac became the best option by far. -- salem (replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)

Salem wrote: > We tried to support our FLGS, but the whole importer/distributor > having their own retail outlet meant we could mail-order stuff > (from within Australia) significant;y cheaper than the FLGS. But > we still tried to buy from the FLGS. But they also wanted to charge > us to play games there....when you're a bunch of poor students > every dollar saved is fairly important. So we started playing at my > house, and buying online. Then the FLGS stopped stocking vtes > because the vtes scene in Canberra 'was dead', apparently. If a store chooses to charge people something tiny (perhaps $1/day, or $5 per month) for unlimited use of their playspace, if players aren't regularly purchasing their product, I don't I see an issue with that. But if they are being dumbasses about the way they are running their business, they probably deserve to fail. This is interesting, though, that there isn't some store in those areas that is willing to charge less for their products and thereby gain all the players and the players' business. Why doesn't this happen? [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Ah the old why does this free market not actually work question....

[ quoted text not captured ] I quibble with your argument... Either way however, Timmy's making less, just like the retailer. I wonder Timmy - if your retailer drives a Mercedes, then yes, maybe he is ripping you off. But if he's driving a POS (piece of sugar) car, then perhaps he's struggling too. I don't want to get into the math of retail. Just that most small retail operations take home profit of about 10% of the retail price of things in their store (gross generlization). Potomac ships probably 1/5th or more of the entire print run of VTES world-wide. If you are doing that sort of volume, then perhaps you can start to reduce your pricing. In addition, Potomac also does things like: Hold back some product that is hot, in order to mark it up later. Allegedly. This is how they can stay profitable. I can't speak to the market in Australia. I used to ship product to some distributor in Brisbane, he paid pretty me something like 60% of retail on the products, plus shipping from me to his freight forwarder. I don't have any idea of his shipping costs. best - chris

squidalot wrote: > "Kevin M." wrote: >> Salem wrote: >>> We tried to support our FLGS, but the whole importer/distributor >>> having their own retail outlet meant we could mail-order stuff >>> (from within Australia) significant;y cheaper than the FLGS. But >>> we still tried to buy from the FLGS. But they also wanted to charge >>> us to play games there....when you're a bunch of poor students >>> every dollar saved is fairly important. So we started playing at my >>> house, and buying online. Then the FLGS stopped stocking vtes >>> because the vtes scene in Canberra 'was dead', apparently. >> >> If a store chooses to charge people something tiny (perhaps $1/day, >> or $5 per month) for unlimited use of their playspace, if players >> aren't regularly purchasing their product, I don't I see an issue >> with that. But if they are being dumbasses about the way they are >> running their business, they probably deserve to fail. >> >> This is interesting, though, that there isn't some store in those >> areas that is willing to charge less for their products and thereby >> gain all the players and the players' business. Why doesn't this >> happen? > > Ah the old why does this free market not actually work question.... The free market works just fine. I'm sure there's a lot of data and information about operating costs that we don't have in this case, but I'm just saying that if it were me down there in <Australian City>, I'd absolutely court this kind of business and do my best to make sure those other game stores went out of business. [ quoted text not captured ]

librarian wrote: > In addition, Potomac also does things like: Hold back some product > that is hot, in order to mark it up later. Allegedly. This is how they > can stay profitable. I realize you said "Allegedly" but do you have any proof of this? 'Cause if you do then I might stop buying from Potomac forever. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Apr 20, 8:08 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > librarian wrote: > > In addition, Potomac also does things like: Hold back some product > > that is hot, in order to mark it up later. Allegedly. This is how they > > can stay profitable. > > I realize you said "Allegedly" but do you have any proof of this? > 'Cause if you do then I might stop buying from Potomac forever. Why?

XZealot wrote: > "Kevin M." wrote: >> librarian wrote: >>> In addition, Potomac also does things like: Hold back some product >>> that is hot, in order to mark it up later. Allegedly. This is how >>> they can stay profitable. >> >> I realize you said "Allegedly" but do you have any proof of this? >> 'Cause if you do then I might stop buying from Potomac forever. > > Why? The obvious reason. [ quoted text not captured ]

Kevin M. wrote: > librarian wrote: >> In addition, Potomac also does things like: Hold back some product >> that is hot, in order to mark it up later. Allegedly. This is how they >> can stay profitable. > > I realize you said "Allegedly" but do you have any proof of this? > 'Cause if you do then I might stop buying from Potomac forever. > > > To answer you, not for VTES no. But when I owned my store, and when hot YuGiOh (I think, maybe it was Magic) stuff came out, they would "sell out", and then have it again, but at a higher price. Now of course, they could have actually sold out, and then sourced it again from other stores/sources. No proof, that's why I say allegedly. best - chris

On 18 апр, 15:09, Lönkka <lon...@fantasiapelit.fi> wrote: > On Apr 18, 10:53 am, Juggernaut1981 <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > My FLGS has had issues get ANY FURTHER cards... boosters, or starters > > and there is some SERIOUS demand for those... we have two or three > > players looking to buy 2 or 3 boxes each plus a raft of newer players > > who would potentially consider buying half a box or so... We're > > considering looking overseas (but for loyalty reasons would prefer to > > get it from the FLGS)... but even then it is proving hard to get 6+ > > boxes. This is excluding the probably 4 or 5 boxes of starters that > > people already want but can't get. > > White Wolf, or actually the fulfillment company that takes care of the > WW order processing, still has a very good supply of Heirs boosters. > At least they did have a week or two ago. I SERIOUSLY doubt that these > would've sold out as the booster print runs usually last for several > YEARS. we seem to have a communication problem here. We urge WW to run another print run of HttB because the STARTER boxes are sold out and people want this set mostly because of that. We have an answer that there will be no reprint because the BOOSTER boxes are readily available. Thus... ... Dear WW, we don't want apples, we want oranges. We don't care if you have a truckload of unsold apples or if you will provide us with a new release of bananas, we are bitching about a huge problem of obtaining the oranges and we have more than enough apples already, thank you very much. [Substitute apples with boosters, oranges with starters and bananas with a new release]

On Apr 21, 7:55 am, "Ivan ." wrote: > we seem to have a communication problem here. Yes, indeed "you" do. Writing an open letter to a company asking them to invest $100,000+ in printing product in a place that none of the people that make financial decisions for the company will read, is the source of your problem. If you are actually serious about getting a reprint done, the following steps are appropriate and effective: 1) Email White Wolf sales directly. (store[at]white-wolf[dot]com) 2) Include the number of display boxes you are willing to purchase. 3) Request a shipping date and shipping price. 4) Include your full name, complete mailing address, and daytime phone number. Example: ------------- Dear White Wolf Sales Team, I would like to purchase XX starter display boxes of Heirs to the Blood at the full retail prices of US$79.92 each. Please provide me with a shipping date and the full shipping charge. My Full Name My Street Address My City, State, Country, Zip Code My Daytime Phone Number ------------- If there were to be 700 to 1,000 emails with that type of information, they would have conclusive proof that their investment would be repaid, and the people that make the financial decisions would act. Twenty people whining in a thread on a backwater of the internet does not (and should not) ever translate to the kind of investment that reprinting starter displays would require. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

[ quoted text not captured ] KJM, One store in Sydney asks you to fork out $5AUD (about $3.50US, about $2.75EU) to put your bum on a seat in their store to play a game... that's a per player, not a per table kind of cost. Needless to say I'm not playing there again. My FLGS asks about $150 or so for a box of boosters. (It does vary a little but stays well below $200). And we realise he's basically slashing his own throat to get us those...

On Apr 20, 8:39 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > XZealot wrote: > > "Kevin M." wrote: > >> librarian wrote: > >>> In addition, Potomac also does things like: Hold back some product > >>> that is hot, in order to mark it up later. Allegedly. This is how > >>> they can stay profitable. > > >> I realize you said "Allegedly" but do you have any proof of this? > >> 'Cause if you do then I might stop buying from Potomac forever. > > > Why? > > The obvious reason. Because they are dumb enough to gamble? Because that is what holding tying your money up into inventory that you could immediately return a profit on is, gambling. ....and not smart gambling at that. It's smarter to sell the product, reorder some more product, then sell that product too. You make twice the money. The gambler ties up the same amount of money, and unless he more than doubles his margin, he would have been better off selling twice as much product. That is how people go bankrupt. Good businessmen always go after 3 nickles rather than 1 dime.

XZealot wrote: > "Kevin M." wrote: >> XZealot wrote: >>> "Kevin M." wrote: >>>> librarian wrote: >>>>> In addition, Potomac also does things like: Hold back some product >>>>> that is hot, in order to mark it up later. Allegedly. This is how >>>>> they can stay profitable. >> >>>> I realize you said "Allegedly" but do you have any proof of this? >>>> 'Cause if you do then I might stop buying from Potomac forever. >> >>> Why? >> >> The obvious reason. > > Because they are dumb enough to gamble? > > Because that is what holding tying your money up into inventory that > you could immediately return a profit on is, gambling. > > ....and not smart gambling at that. Correct. I don't want to support problem gamblers. ;) [ quoted text not captured ]

On Apr 21, 4:59 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > XZealot wrote: > > "Kevin M." wrote: > >> XZealot wrote: > >>> "Kevin M." wrote: > >>>> librarian wrote: > >>>>> In addition, Potomac also does things like: Hold back some product > >>>>> that is hot, in order to mark it up later. Allegedly. This is how > >>>>> they can stay profitable. > > >>>> I realize you said "Allegedly" but do you have any proof of this? > >>>> 'Cause if you do then I might stop buying from Potomac forever. > > >>> Why? > > >> The obvious reason. > > > Because they are dumb enough to gamble? > > > Because that is what holding tying your money up into inventory that > > you could immediately return a profit on is, gambling. > > > ....and not smart gambling at that. > > Correct. I don't want to support problem gamblers. ;) Honestly, you would stop buying from them, forever, if they did this gambit?

Kevin M. wrote: > Salem wrote: >> We tried to support our FLGS, but the whole importer/distributor >> having their own retail outlet meant we could mail-order stuff >> (from within Australia) significant;y cheaper than the FLGS. But >> we still tried to buy from the FLGS. But they also wanted to charge >> us to play games there....when you're a bunch of poor students >> every dollar saved is fairly important. So we started playing at my >> house, and buying online. Then the FLGS stopped stocking vtes >> because the vtes scene in Canberra 'was dead', apparently. > > If a store chooses to charge people something tiny (perhaps $1/day, > or $5 per month) for unlimited use of their playspace, if players > aren't regularly purchasing their product, I don't I see an issue > with that. But if they are being dumbasses about the way they are > running their business, they probably deserve to fail. > > This is interesting, though, that there isn't some store in those > areas that is willing to charge less for their products and thereby > gain all the players and the players' business. Why doesn't this > happen? at least in Canberra, there is all of one (1) store. and i think they're a little spoiled by what Pokemon and Magic players have been and are willing to pay, both for play space and/or product. Well, not so much the players, but their parents. Compared to a few hours of babysitting or childcare, sticking the kids in a room full of other dorky kids for $20* while the parents go off shopping is probably a bargain. * Number pulled out of ass. I haven't actually asked how much they charge for many years now. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Absolutely. I have no need to buy from Potomac. It's just a bit more convenient than the alternatives, s'all. Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/ Please bid on my auctions! http://shop.ebay.com/kjmergen/m.html