Gwen Morse wrote:
>
> NOTE: It MUST be a Gangrel/Brujah mixed deck. I KNOW they don't share
> disciplines in-clan, but, some of the higher cards do crossover
> disciplines.
Just a note: it's usually a good idea, when creating a new deck, to
concentrate on one clan or one three discipline combination. This way,
your deck is consistent and you'll usually have most of your vampires
able to play most of your cards.
> Additionally, 'Gwendolyn' the Brujah Inner Circle Member
> must be one of the Crypt cards. That's because my name is 'Gwen', and
> she's the only Gwen in the game. Finally, when suggeting cards not
> listed below, it's best to stick with the original V:ES/Jyhad cards and
> not suggest cards from expansion sets. While I have some DS's and a
> whole box of AH's, I prolly don't have enough of the really buff rare
> cards to make effective use of those expansions. I'm still working on
> collecting the rare basic cards.
Seeing the cards that are in your Library, I would honestly urge you to
forget about rare cards, which are usually more quirky than they are
useful. In Jyhad, it's the common cards which are most useful. The
very best way to get a bunch of useful commons is to buy a box of Jyhad
boosters, which usually still go for about $20 a box. It's well worth
it.
> crypt:
> Brujah: Gwendolyn, Bianca, Black Cat, Dre - Leader of the Cold Dawn,
> Lupo
> Gangrel: Gunther - Beast Lord, Zack North, Badger, Bear Paw, Roman
> Alexander
> Other: Andrei Puxon, Gaspare Giovanni (tossed in because they matched
OK, so you want to use the Gangrel and the Brujah. This gives you 6
disciplines to choose from. Again, I reccommend choosing three, and
concentrating on those.
So your choices are PRO FOR ANI POT CEL PRE.
From the cards below, it looks like you want to make a combat deck. So
let's take out the disciplines that aren't that useful in combat, namely
Presence and Animalism. Of the four remaining disciplines, two good
combos could be POT PRO FOR, and POT CEL FOR (Gwen would kick butt in
this latter one). There are others.
In your post, you didn't mention the Sabbat, which has a whole lot of
good vampires in it (some would say too good). If you don't have any
Sabbat cards, it would definitely be worth it to try trading at least
for some of the vampires.
When building a crypt, it's always a good idea to find the smallest
vampires which fit into your deck. If all of your vampires are huge,
you'll "spend 29 pool on vampires, get bled for 1, and die", as the
saying goes around here. So good choices are:
Lupo / KoKo: 2 pot
Dre -- Leader of the Cold Dawn: 3 pot cel
Ricki van Demsi: 3 pro for
Anvil: 6 POT CEL [pre dom tha], Primogen
Zack North: 6 pot pro for [ani], +1 hand damage
Badger: 6 pot FOR PRO [ani]
After this, you usually have to decide how you're going to compromise
disciplines. What this means is that since your discipline choices are
not all in one clan, you won't find that many vampires with them. So
you need to choose one discipline that will be less important than the
others, so that you can concentrate on the other two. This will make
finding vampires for your crypt easier.
In your case, if you decided to go with POT CEL FOR, I would reccommend
making FOR kind of minor. It's very useful, but not enough vampires
have all three. Another option is to go for the POT FOR deck. There
are a suprising number of vampires with POT FOR, but unfortunately very
few of them also have Celerity. The only two besides Gwendolyn that
come to mind are Richter and Jimmy Dunn, two Sabbat vampires.
As you can see, it's not easy to build a crypt, especially with a weird
(albeit effective) combo of disciplines. If you're just learning the
game, I would strongly reccommend making a one-clan crypt, with just the
Brujah, for example.
> Master Cards:
> Disciplines: Potence, Animalism, Celerity, Fortitude all 2/each
Master: Discipline cards are an acquired taste. I usually only put them
in if I notice that a fairly large number of the vampires in my crypt
don't have a particular discipline, or they at least don't have it at
superior, when that's important. Two each of four is far too many. I
would stay under 4 M:D cards.
> Locations: Heidelburg Castle - Germany, Zoo hunting ground, Warzone
> hunting ground, Elder Library, Backways
Unless you have equipment, lose the Castle. It costs 2 pool, and you'll
hardly ever use it. Some people swear by Hunting Grounds, but again,
it's up to you. Elder Library is another one of those weird cards that
some like and some don't. I've never used it, myself. Backways again
costs 2 pool, and unless it's important that certain actions be at
stealth, it's not worth it.
> Other: Blood Doll (2), Sudden Reversal (2), Archon Investigation
Two SR's is a little high. If you're a combat deck, I would take these
out and put in two Arsons, since the nasty master cards are almost all
locations.
> Allies/Retainers:
> Allies: Werewolf Allies
Does this mean Renegade Garou _and_ Werewolf Pack? They're both very
expensive; the former is marginally useful, and the latter is quite
useless. Allies in general aren't that great.
> Ret: Raven Spy, Spiritual Protector (for Andrei)
Cardinal Rule of Jyhad #37: Don't put in any cards that only one vampire
in your crypt can use. Chances are, you won't get that vamp, and the
card will be a waste.
> Other Cards:
> Action Cards: The Embrace, Shepard's Innocence, Restoration (2)
Shepherd's Innocence is only useful when other people are playing with
Animalism. Since it isn't an amazingly useful discipline, not many do.
I know that this has been very rambly, but I hope I have helped.
James
--
James E. Hamblin
je...@cornell.edu
"There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the
darkness of the soul that has lost its way. ... Greater than
the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams.
Against this peril we can never surrender."
-- G'Kar, Babylon 5: "Z'ha'dum"
I'm a 'new' player to both V:TES and CCG's in general (Vampire being the
only game I've learned (sort of) to play so far.
I have a rather unstructured deck I set up the first time I played, and
have used ever since (mostly because I wanted something to play with
while I learned the rules, I didn't care that I would be toasted).
I was wondering if someone out there would be willing to take pity on
me, look over my 60-card deck, and suggest changes that might make it
more effective.
NOTE: It MUST be a Gangrel/Brujah mixed deck. I KNOW they don't share
disciplines in-clan, but, some of the higher cards do crossover
disciplines. Additionally, 'Gwendolyn' the Brujah Inner Circle Member
must be one of the Crypt cards. That's because my name is 'Gwen', and
she's the only Gwen in the game. Finally, when suggeting cards not
listed below, it's best to stick with the original V:ES/Jyhad cards and
not suggest cards from expansion sets. While I have some DS's and a
whole box of AH's, I prolly don't have enough of the really buff rare
cards to make effective use of those expansions. I'm still working on
collecting the rare basic cards.
crypt:
Brujah: Gwendolyn, Bianca, Black Cat, Dre - Leader of the Cold Dawn,
Lupo
Gangrel: Gunther - Beast Lord, Zack North, Badger, Bear Paw, Roman
Alexander
Other: Andrei Puxon, Gaspare Giovanni (tossed in because they matched
Disciplines I was using and might be 'useful' non-Cammie types. Any
suggestions to save them in the deck would be appreciated, but, I'm
resigned to cutting them out)
Master Cards:
Disciplines: Potence, Animalism, Celerity, Fortitude all 2/each
Locations: Heidelburg Castle - Germany, Zoo hunting ground, Warzone
hunting ground, Elder Library, Backways
Other: Blood Doll (2), Sudden Reversal (2), Archon Investigation
Allies/Retainers:
Allies: Werewolf Allies
Ret: Raven Spy, Spiritual Protector (for Andrei)
Combat Cards:
Canine Hoard (2), Sideslip (2), Acrobatics (2), Skin of Steel (2), Skin
of Rock (2), Taste of Vitae (2), Fakeout, Flash, Aid From Bats, Lucky
Blow, Boxed In, Dodge, Trap, Shattering Blow, Open Gate, Thrown Sewer
Lid, Majesty, Vampiric Speed, Nosferatu Putresence (used against a
Nossie deck), Undead Strength, Might Grapple, Thrown Sewer Lid, Blood
Rage, Thrown Gate, Mighty Grapple, Dead-End Alley
Other Cards:
Action Cards: The Embrace, Shepard's Innocence, Restoration (2)
Action Mod: Dawn Operation, Earth Control, Change of Target
That should be all 60 of them!
Any constructive responses will be appreciated!
Gwen Morse
-- Many people believed that the forest was a foreboding and
dangerous place and never set foot in it. Red Riding Hood,
however, was confident enough in her own budding sexuality
that such obvious Freudian imagery did not intimidate her. --
James E. Hamblin writes:
[Helpful tips to Gwen deleted]
>
>So your choices are PRO FOR ANI POT CEL PRE.
>
>From the cards below, it looks like you want to make a combat deck. So
>let's take out the disciplines that aren't that useful in combat, namely
>Presence and Animalism. Of the four remaining disciplines, two good
>combos could be POT PRO FOR, and POT CEL FOR (Gwen would kick butt in
>this latter one). There are others.
Let me correct: ANI wasn't too great in combat _until_ AH and Sabbat. Now
ANI has some cute cards like Scorpion Sting and Carrion Crows... Scorpion
Sting is useless when all your fights are under Immortal Grapple, but it's
a nice alternative when facing POT CEL decks that keep dodging as their
first strike...
>> Other Cards:
>> Action Cards: The Embrace, Shepard's Innocence, Restoration (2)>
>Shepherd's Innocence is only useful when other people are playing with
>Animalism. Since it isn't an amazingly useful discipline, not many do.
>
Depends on style, I'd say. People around here kill for permanent intercept
and you see Raven Spies in all animalism-related decks (as well as Sport
Bikes _and_ KRCGs). Then some also use Wolf Companions and/or Murders of
Crows. All are nice to get with a Shepherd's Innocence, but ANI users tend
to intercept things that bother them...
Now, I recently put an Owl Companion in my Nosferatu (Camarilla & Anti)
POT/ANI deck, and it's a very nice touch. Funny how so many people don't like
to have their hands exposed for all to see... ("OK, so you have a Majesty and
no other combat card, eh ? Think I'll play an Immortal Grapple then...")
Also, regarding Master Disciplines: I tend to think like you do, but these
days we have very violent games where lots of vamps are diablerized, and it
always feels like I lost something when a young vamp diablerizes, survives,
and can't get a discipline just because I didn't include enough.
Philippe
Philippe DUCHON wrote:
>
> Let me correct: ANI wasn't too great in combat _until_ AH and Sabbat. Now
> ANI has some cute cards like Scorpion Sting and Carrion Crows... Scorpion
> Sting is useless when all your fights are under Immortal Grapple, but it's
> a nice alternative when facing POT CEL decks that keep dodging as their
> first strike...
It still isn't very useful. S:CE stops Carrion Crows / Wolf Companion
damage, and if you really don't want people to dodge/S:CE, use Potence.
By the way, Scorpion Sting _is_ a hand strike, and is thus usable under
an Immortal Grapple (though the superior has no effect, of course).
> >Shepherd's Innocence is only useful when other people are playing with
> >Animalism. Since it isn't an amazingly useful discipline, not many do.
>> Depends on style, I'd say. People around here kill for permanent intercept
> and you see Raven Spies in all animalism-related decks (as well as Sport
> Bikes _and_ KRCGs).
This seems to be a general trend in some groups. I've seen some posts
which imply that in some groups, all decks have some intercept in them.
I don't really understand this. For example, if you're a Stealth/Bleed
deck, why would you have any intercept at all? What about a Rush combat
deck? Why water down the effectiveness of these decks with intercept,
when, to use the intercept, you need to keep some vampires untapped.
Then they're not doing whatever it is the deck does, and you don't win.
> Then some also use Wolf Companions and/or Murders of
> Crows. All are nice to get with a Shepherd's Innocence, but ANI users tend
> to intercept things that bother them...
Do you really ever see a game in which more than one person is playing a
deck which not only uses Animalism, but uses Animalism retainers? This
is really odd.
> Now, I recently put an Owl Companion in my Nosferatu (Camarilla & Anti)
> POT/ANI deck, and it's a very nice touch. Funny how so many people don't like
> to have their hands exposed for all to see... ("OK, so you have a Majesty and
> no other combat card, eh ? Think I'll play an Immortal Grapple then...")
Owl Companion is useful, but it takes an action to go get, and it's not
really worth it.
> Also, regarding Master Disciplines: I tend to think like you do, but these
> days we have very violent games where lots of vamps are diablerized, and it
> always feels like I lost something when a young vamp diablerizes, survives,
> and can't get a discipline just because I didn't include enough.
If you feel that your vampires need to have the particular disciplines,
then put in the cards. Just because you might feel unfulfilled if
Smudge doesn't learn anything from Arika's entrails doesn't mean that
you should volunarily risk a bad hand jam on M:D cards.
[ quoted text not captured ]
James E. Hamblin wrote:
> By the way, Scorpion Sting _is_ a hand strike
It is NOT a hand strike.
It is an Animalism strike which deals damage with +1 hand damage.
Look on Potence cards: There you can read: Use your hand or melee weapon
at + ? damage ...
Hand Damage is done with your hands, Scorpion Sting damage is done with
a scorpion sting. (So: No wolf claws may effect this strike.)
Not all Potence short ranged strikes are hand strikes. Burning Wrath is
NOT a hand strike (see above).
So an Immortal Grapple will fizzle the Scorpion Sting.
--
Michael Beer, Dortmund, Germany
-------------------------------
Life is founded on Chaos.
So if you find your living room became disordered:
Don't panic! It's natural... :)
Mike Mirathe wrote:
>
> James E. Hamblin wrote:
>
> > By the way, Scorpion Sting _is_ a hand strike
>
> It is NOT a hand strike.
It IS a hand strike.
From LSJ's rulings postings:
| Combat
| Hand Strike - any non-ranged, non-weapon strike that deals damage
based
| on the striking minion's hand damage, or any minion's non-ranged
| damage-dealing innate strike. [LSJ 970224]
| Hand Damage - damage from a hand strike. [LSJ 970224]
| e.g. Damage from a Bastard Sword is *not* hand damage.
> It is an Animalism strike which deals damage with +1 hand damage.
So it is non-ranged, non-weapon, and is based on hand damage.
> Look on Potence cards: There you can read: Use your hand or melee weapon
> at + ? damage ...
These cards were made better than the later ones, so this ruling is
required.
> Hand Damage is done with your hands, Scorpion Sting damage is done with
> a scorpion sting. (So: No wolf claws may effect this strike.)
Scorpion Sting damage is hand damage since Scorpion Sting is a hand
strike.
> Not all Potence short ranged strikes are hand strikes. Burning Wrath is
> NOT a hand strike (see above).
You are correct that not all non-ranged Pot strikes are hand strikes;
Fractured Armament comes to mind. However, Burning Wrath is also a hand
strike.
> So an Immortal Grapple will fizzle the Scorpion Sting.
Let me clear this up. Since the Immortal Grapple is played once range
is determined (to be close), but before strikes are played, there is no
possible "fizzling" with Scorpion Sting. OTOH, if a minion uses a gun
to maneuver and is later IG'd, their strike will "fizzle".
When visiting other play groups, I've seen a lot of lackadaisical
combats, i.e., not going through the motions of "Do you maneuver? No?
I don't maneuver. What's your strike? My strike is *. Any effects
before damage dealing? Do you prevent my damage?" and so on. I've seen
players enter combat and simply play Majesty, expecting it to always
work. They're quite dismayed when they get Immortally Grappled and
mangled.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Mike Mirathe wrote:
> James E. Hamblin wrote:
> > By the way, Scorpion Sting _is_ a hand strike
>
> It is NOT a hand strike.
>> It is an Animalism strike which deals damage with +1 hand damage.
It is a hand strike. Refer to the definition used for hand strike:
Hand Strike - any non-ranged, non-weapon strike that deals damage based
on the striking minion's hand damage, or any minion's non-ranged
damage-dealing innate strike.
> Look on Potence cards: There you can read: Use your hand or melee weapon> at + ? damage ...
Those strikes (along with Lucky Blow) as worded the way they are
to allow you to use them to boost your hand strike or a melee weapon
strike.
Scorpion Sting is worded differently because it is not intended to
be usable to modify a weapon strike.
> Hand Damage is done with your hands, Scorpion Sting damage is done with
> a scorpion sting. (So: No wolf claws may effect this strike.)
Scorpion Sting describes the motion of your hands (you whip your
fist out like a scoripion would whip his tail out - so fast that
it cannot be dodge if you have superior animalism). If you use
Wolf Claws, then this strike will do aggravated damage.
> Not all Potence short ranged strikes are hand strikes. Burning Wrath is
> NOT a hand strike (see above).
Burning Wrath is a hand strike, by the definition currently being
used to define what constitutes a hand strike.
> So an Immortal Grapple will fizzle the Scorpion Sting.
Not true.
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com)
Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team