Changing some political actions

It is a shame that VTES has so many pool damage dealing political actions but only four are used: KRC, Conservative Agitation, Parity Shift and Judgement: Camarilla Segregation. And two of these are only playable with a Camarilla deck. So here are some suggestions how to change some other political actions to make them playable. And BTW some suggestions for other political actions that are laughable. Screw the Masquerade! Type: Political Action Political Action-Worth 1 Vote. Called by any vampire at +1 stealth. Choose a Methuselah. Successful referendum means each Methuselah burns 1 pool and the chosen Methuselah burns an additional pool. Really a joke. Better would be: "Choose a Methuselah. Successful referendum means each other Methuselah burns 1 pool and the chosen Methuselah burns x pool, where x is the number of methuselahs in the game." That would be one more pool damage than a Conservative Agitation, but you have the problem getting also one damage, pissing of all other players and are not able to deal with someone. Transfer of Power Type: Political Action Political Card - Worth 1 Vote. Called by any vampire at +1 stealth. Successful referendum means you gain 1 pool from each Methuselah who has more pool than you do. A weak version of Parity Shift. Better would be: "Successful referendum means you gain 3 pool from each Methuselah who has more pool than you do." That looks really strong, because you could be able to get 12 pools. But you have to see the weakness compared with Parity Shift. You piss of all players with more pool and you are not able to deal with someone like its possible with PS. Sabbat Threat Type: Political Action Requires: prince,justicar Political Card -- Worth 1 Vote. Called by any prince or justicar at +1 stealth. Choose one or more Methuselahs. Successful referendum means each chosen Methuselah gets a threat counter. Each Methuselah burns 1 pool for each threat counter he or she has during his or her untap phase. A Methuselah may never have more than two threat counters, and he or she may burn the Edge to burn all the threat counters he or she has. Nice card, if it wouldnt be to easy to burn the edge. My solution would be (and that will make this card very strong): "Choose one or more Methuselahs. Successful referendum means each chosen Methuselah gets a threat counter. Each Methuselah burns 1 pool if he has any threat counters during his or her untap phase, but not more than 2 pool. He or she may burn the Edge to burn one threat counter he or she has." That would give you an effect like Army of rats. You can stack the cards and make it so difficult to avoid the threat. Code of Milan Suspended Type: Political Action Requires: sabbat Political Card - Worth 1 Vote. Called by any Sabbat vampire at +1 stealth. Select the Methuselah with the Edge. If this referendum is successful, that Methuselah burns 1 pool. Wouldnt it be nice if the Sabbat had only some special votes, that are not absolutely useless? I would say: "burns x pool, where x is the number of methuselahs in play". Still a weak card, because you can only play it in a very special situation. Tithings Type: Political Action Requires: sabbat,capacity above 6 Political Card - Worth 1 Vote. Called by any Sabbat vampire with a capacity above 6 at +1 stealth. Successful referendum means you gain 1 pool from each Methuselah who does not a control a vampire with a capacity above 6. Another candidate for the Sabbat. Wow, you really will get one or two pool if you are very happy. So let the wennies pay 3 pool. You could get 12 pool, yes. But playing with 4 wennie decks on a table needs some prize! And you still cannot target someone. Regaining the Upper Hand Type: Political Action Political Card - Worth 1 Vote. Called by any vampire at +1 stealth. Choose a Methuselah. Successful referendum means the chosen Methuselah gets the Edge. Can you believe it? You cannot only look at the Edge, you cannot only hold it in your hand. With this card you get it! Really game breaking! I must confess, i have problems to make this card stronger, because its so absolutely weak. Here is my solution: "Choose a Methuselah. Successful referendum means you put these card in play. The chosen Methuselah gets the Edge and takes control of these card. He can burn these card in the untap phase to get 5 pool. Burn these card if another methuselah takes control of the Edge."

> Screw the Masquerade! This card saw some play waaay back when my group used card limits, and although it's not strong enough, the pool damage to everyone did come in handy. (Just like Anarch Revolt, it softens up the table.) If it was "chosen Methuselah burns an additional 2 pool", then it would be between KRC and Ancilla Empowerment in its effect, and I think that would be great. > Code of Milan Suspended Sorry, I think this card will be wallpaper forever. Maybe if they lost pool and you actually gained pool, but still, I think it's loster than Chainsaw. > Tithings I like your suggestion of upping the pool transfer. Many players are opposed to more card text migrations, but it's a cool thought. > Regaining the Upper Hand > I must confess, i have problems to make this card stronger, > because its so absolutely weak. Yes, indeed. -- Brian

x5m...@gmx.de wrote: [some stuff about pool-burning political actions] Don't forget: Treaty of Tyre Enforced Political Card - Worth 1 Vote. Called by any vampire at +1 stealth. If this referendum is successful, each Methuselah burns X+1 pool, where X is the number of Assamites he or she controls.

[ quoted text not captured ] And Ancient Influence, Reins of Power, Domain Challenge, Ancilla Empowerment, and Anarchist Uprising. -- LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

x5m...@gmx.de wrote: > It is a shame that VTES has so many pool damage dealing political > actions but only four are used: KRC, Conservative Agitation, Parity > Shift and Judgement: Camarilla Segregation. The last is not a political action. LSJ listed a bunch of other commonly used ones (Domain Challenge, etc.) Let me add that Finding the Path isn't unusual in Chicago.

x5m...@gmx.de wrote: > It is a shame that VTES has so many pool damage dealing political > actions but only four are used: KRC, Conservative Agitation, Parity > Shift and Judgement: Camarilla Segregation. And two of these are only > playable with a Camarilla deck. So here are some suggestions how to > change some other political actions to make them playable. And BTW some > suggestions for other political actions that are laughable. > > Screw the Masquerade! > Type: Political Action > Political Action-Worth 1 Vote. Called by any vampire at +1 stealth. > Choose a Methuselah. Successful referendum means each Methuselah burns > 1 pool and the chosen Methuselah burns an additional pool. > > Really a joke. Better would be: "Choose a Methuselah. Successful > referendum means each other Methuselah burns 1 pool and the chosen > Methuselah burns x pool, where x is the number of methuselahs in the > game." That would be one more pool damage than a Conservative > Agitation, but you have the problem getting also one damage, pissing of > all other players and are not able to deal with someone. Little too strong methinks. 5 pool damage until someone is ousted. Then four pool damage until a second person is ousted. Then down to KRC level. I would imagine that many politcal strategies would invlove something along the lines of 80/20 split [(your new) Con Ag./KRC] and what would be the point of simply replacing KRC with a card that does more damage? Are vote decks having that much trouble ousting as it stands currently... Add to this the fact that the card would consistently hand out cross table damage and I am sure that the complaints from players would start rolling in. What about: "Choose a Methuselah. Successful referendum means each other Methuselah (including you) who has more pool than the chosen Methuselah burns 1 pool and the chosen Methuselah burns x pool, where x is the number of methuselahs who burn pool." OR (on the flipside) "Choose a Methuselah. Successful referendum means each other Methuselah (including you) who has LESS pool than the chosen Methuselah GAINS 1 pool and the chosen Methuselah burns x pool, where x is the number of methuselahs who GAIN pool." More powerful than the current printing, less damaging across table, and something a little different to what we currently have. It could even be our first dual requirement vote card...two sets of differing preconditions, one for each effect. Like Requires Sabbat, and Requires Camarilla. Sort of getting into a different area of discussion here, but... Contractual Dispute +1 stealth political action. Choose a Methuselah. Requires a ready Sabbat vampire. Successful referendum means each other Methuselah who has more pool than the chosen Methuselah burns 1 pool and the chosen Methuselah burns x pool, where x is the number of methuselahs who burn pool. Requires a ready Camarilla vampire. Successful referendum means each other Methuselah who has less pool than the chosen Methuselah gains 1 pool and the chosen Methuselah burns x pool, where x is the number of methuselahs who gain pool. "I don't give a fig for any contract" -Theo Bell > > > Transfer of Power > Type: Political Action > Political Card - Worth 1 Vote. Called by any vampire at +1 stealth. > Successful referendum means you gain 1 pool from each Methuselah who > has more pool than you do. > > A weak version of Parity Shift. Better would be: "Successful > referendum means you gain 3 pool from each Methuselah who has more pool > than you do." That looks really strong, because you could be able to > get 12 pools. But you have to see the weakness compared with Parity > Shift. You piss of all players with more pool and you are not able to > deal with someone like its possible with PS. > It's just all this random crap again. Why do you feel the need to be taking stuff from people all over the table? Especailly such large amounts. Parity Shift requires a title, and only allows you to target a single player, which makes it a lot easier to weigh up the potential consequences (plus you can share the spoils of a PS). This card just encourages bad play from bad players. A Good Cause +1 Stealth Political Action Successful referendum mean that each methuselah who has more pool than you must donate two pool to A Good Cause. Starting with you and proceeding clockwise, allocate pool A Good Cause, one at a time, to each Methuselah that did not donate. A methuselah may not gain more pool from A Good Cause than the number of methuselahs in the game. Remaining pool is returned to the blood bank. A bit wordy. Also, possibly could change to: A methuselah may not gain more pool from A Good Cause than the number of donating methuselahs. A potentially swing of ten (you gain eight + everyone else loses two) pool early game seems a little strong. Four is much more reasonable. I also liked the idea of "Charity Drive" as a cardName. [ quoted text not captured ] I don't mind ST as it is. I don't use it often, but I do still use it. Your are correct (imho) when you say that your change would make this card strong . I dont' neccessarily see that as a good thing to be doing. > Code of Milan Suspended > Type: Political Action > Requires: sabbat > Political Card - Worth 1 Vote. Called by any Sabbat vampire at +1 > stealth. > Select the Methuselah with the Edge. If this referendum is successful, > that Methuselah burns 1 pool. > > Wouldnt it be nice if the Sabbat had only some special votes, that are > not absolutely useless? I would say: "burns x pool, where x is the > number of methuselahs in play". Still a weak card, because you can > only play it in a very special situation. > Why would it still be weak? See: Regaining the Upper Hand or Madness Network Plus you put the fear of God into anyone controlling the edge. Not optimal perhaps, but by no means wallpapaer. [ quoted text not captured ] It doesn't seem to me that the designer intent here was that this card be a form of massive pool gain. Regain the upper hand decks do exist. Hope you enjoy the feedback, -Scrote

> Contractual Dispute > +1 stealth political action. > > Choose a Methuselah. > > Requires a ready Sabbat vampire. > Successful referendum means each other Methuselah who has more pool > than the chosen Methuselah burns 1 pool and the chosen Methuselah burns > x pool, where x is the number of methuselahs who burn pool. > > Requires a ready Camarilla vampire. > Successful referendum means each other Methuselah who has less pool > than the chosen Methuselah gains 1 pool and the chosen Methuselah burns > x pool, where x is the number of methuselahs who gain pool. > > "I don't give a fig for any contract" > -Theo Bell Whoops, that should probably read more like: Contractual Dispute +1 stealth political action. Choose a Methuselah. Requires a ready Sabbat vampire. Successful referendum means each other Methuselah who has more pool than the chosen Methuselah burns 1 pool and the chosen Methuselah *gains* x pool, where x is the number of methuselahs who burn pool. Requires a ready Camarilla vampire. Successful referendum means each other Methuselah who has less pool than the chosen Methuselah gains 1 pool and the chosen Methuselah burns x pool, where x is the number of methuselahs who gain pool. "I don't give a fig for any contract" -Theo Bell > -Scrote

Jozxyqk wrote: > Don't forget: > Treaty of Tyre Enforced > Political Card - Worth 1 Vote. Called by any vampire at +1 stealth. > If this referendum is successful, each Methuselah burns X+1 pool, > where X is the number of Assamites he or she controls. I'm really surprised nobody's whipped this gem out on Deckbot. -Snapcase

In message <lCX3e.5667$D_2....@fe11.lga>, Snapcase [ quoted text not captured ] Using a Uriah Winter, Revelation of the Sire, trojan horse, Alamut FRENZY OF DOOM? -- James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?" 13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/

x5m...@gmx.de a écrit : > Screw the Masquerade! > Type: Political Action > Political Action-Worth 1 Vote. Called by any vampire at +1 stealth. > Choose a Methuselah. Successful referendum means each Methuselah burns > 1 pool and the chosen Methuselah burns an additional pool. sometime better than domain challenge since you will not harm your allies too much. Very cool if you play bribes, btw since you and your fellow voters will avoid the pool loss and stay your friends. if you are the only player at the table playing votes, the others are your enemies anyway ;) > Transfer of Power > Type: Political Action > Political Card - Worth 1 Vote. Called by any vampire at +1 stealth. > Successful referendum means you gain 1 pool from each Methuselah who > has more pool than you do. It's already a strong card as it is. You can gain 4 pool for no drawback. Try to use it instead of whining ! :D First it makes you look less harmful than if you played a parity shift ! Second 2 or 3 pool at the right time can and will save your life, and again, if you bribe, the other voters would vote for you since it costs them nothing. > Sabbat Threat > Type: Political Action > Requires: prince,justicar > Political Card -- Worth 1 Vote. Called by any prince or justicar at +1 > stealth. > Choose one or more Methuselahs. Successful referendum means each chosen > Methuselah gets a threat counter. Each Methuselah burns 1 pool for each > threat counter he or she has during his or her untap phase. A > Methuselah may never have more than two threat counters, and he or she > may burn the Edge to burn all the threat counters he or she has. you have to make up a cool strategy to avoid your nemesis getting the edge. Play folderol ! play Ignis fatus ! play Form of corruption ! play eagle sight :)

Emmit Svenson a écrit : > LSJ listed a bunch of other commonly used ones (Domain Challenge, etc.) > Let me add that Finding the Path isn't unusual in Chicago. Really ? Why would that be ? You risk alienating an ally, even if it's your next prey, and it's less flexible than KRC (not mentionning that aberration Parity Shift)... Orpheus

scrote wrote: > It's just all this random crap again. Why do you feel the need to be > taking stuff from people all over the table? Thanks for all the comments. I think all the random parts are what makes a card weak. For example the strength of Parity Shift is, you can target every Meth who has more pool and you can give the pool to all players you need. Often you will pass the vote, because you give pool to a player. That is very strong. A card that deals random demage is often worthless, because you cannot make sure, that someone helps you in the referendum and that the person, you want to damage (ie. your prey) gets the damage.

Certainly the original poster should have said "It is a shame that VTES has so many pool damage dealing political actions but only <eight> are used: KRC, Conservative Agitation, Parity Shift, <Ancient Influence, Reins of Power, Domain Challenge, Ancilla Empowerment, and Anarchist Uprising.>" And included a codicil about Treaty being pants and deservedly so, with brief mention of how PTO is actually a damage dealing vote etc etc. I do think the rant about RtUH is apropo. Finally, card text migration is getting dangerously high. Please consider not implementing any of his/her suggestions, and instead releasing new cards that address their concerns (if you find them valid). best - chris LSJ wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] -- chris shorb

In message <4250ecd7$0$26836$626a...@news.free.fr>, Orpheus <orphe...@DEADfree.fr> writes: >Really ? Why would that be ? You risk alienating an ally, even if it's >your next prey, and it's less flexible than KRC (not mentionning that >aberration Parity Shift)... Parity Shift isn't available to people without Princes and Justicars, for instance. Also, it's not as vulnerable to taking out a key Prince/Justicar (in a vote deck with some Princes/Justicars, and some non-P/Js). You might reasonably read the card as saying "Play only if, for some reason, you can't put Parity Shift in your deck." Additionally, it can often be only one person you're really bargaining with over (say) a KRC. "Yeah, give me a pool damage to my prey, and I'll let it through." On a 5 player table, that's doable. On a 4 player table, that's doable. Once you hit three, it's both other Methuselahs. Once you hit two, it's one-on-one. So in the early stages, you still have reasonable negotiating room - they get the pool damage AND they get a pool back themself. That sounds like it's often going to be slightly easier to get a potentially hostile Methuselah to go along with. Typical arguments over KRC often include whether it goes 3-1 (my choice-your choice), or 2-2 (my choice-your choice). 1 damage, 1 gain for you is a similarly reasonable chance of getting them on side - and it's still a pool gain for me. I wouldn't be betting the house on it, but I can see why it might be useful. If you call it twice in a turn, that could be 6 pool gain with two Voter Caps instead of 4, AND still putting some pressure on your predator and prey (unlike a Con Boon, or similar). If your priorities are a little more defensive - say, you have expensive tastes in vampires - it's plausible. [ quoted text not captured ]

Sabbat Threat can be made playable easily by just saying that they can only burn the Edge to get rid of the threat counters during their untap phase.

[ quoted text not captured ] > aberration Parity Shift)... You gain one, your prey loses one. Not bad for a vote any weenie can call. In a four- or five-player game, you can win an ally on the vote. It's certainly better than a Conservative Agitation in a two-player game. It is less dangerous to your allies than Domain Challenge or Ancillae Empowerment, and the state of others' controlled region doesn't affect your referendum. You can use it to help a dying player. It is less aggressive than KRC, of course. But you don't want to build a heavy vote deck with 80%+ KRC because of Delaying Tactics. You want another vote your other minions can call that turn. A mix of KRC, FtP, and Disputed Territory can be quite effective.