Spill over from Proposed Erreta: Reaction Cards
Regarhagan's Hold
Type(s): Master
Pool Cost: 2
Out-of-Turn
Give this card to another Methuselah during his or her untap phase and
move a reaction card from that Methuselah's ash heap to this card. The
chosen reaction card costs that Methuselah's vampires an additional
blood. That Methuselah may move 1 pool to this card as a master phase
action. Burn this card when it has 2 pool counters. A Methuselah can
have only 1 Regarhagan's Hold.
Consider this card for a second... TWO POOL to give a minor set back to
someone's playing of a reaction card.
Its greatest strength is in targetting Wakes or FAs. However someone
recommended using it to target bleed bounce. They said that that is
another reason of why this card exists.
I think this card is crap in general, and crap for bounce denial (the
better of the holds, but still crap).
Imagine I'm a SB deck (say, OBT DOM).
1.) I want to bleed without changing my bleed target, but this card
doesn't do that. It just punishes my opponents minions. I'm not
interested in the blood totals on my opponents minions. I'm interested
in their pool count.
2.) To make best use of this card, I'd need some reason to care why
their minions have less blood. My SB deck doesn't have that, unless I
start adding some other cards that might synergy with the less blood on
prey's minions angle, like Shadow Twin, but now I need to combo
something, do as something as simple as making sure my bleed hits home.
3.) If my prey REALLY cared, they'll pay the two pool.
3.) A.) You may reply that its over two turns, which will give you time
to oust them, but, alas thats not the case. If R.Hold completely shut
down their bounce, then its worth while. But instead, the bounce is
still playable, just slightly blood costly.
4.) Costs me TWO POOL. Them: a few blood over the course of a few
turns.
So yeah. Over all, I don't like this card as an anti-bounce effect. Too
general (can target any reaction), and as a result its too costly (two
pool!) for an effect (one blood cost) that not all SB decks can utilize
(only OBT DOM bleeder [shadow twin], or a THA DOM [cryptic and thefts]
bleeder perhaps) to an effect that's worth the cost.
~SV
Screaming Vermillian wrote:
> Spill over from Proposed Erreta: Reaction Cards
>
> Regarhagan's Hold
> Type(s): Master
> Pool Cost: 2
> Out-of-Turn
> Give this card to another Methuselah during his or her untap phase
and
> move a reaction card from that Methuselah's ash heap to this card.
The
> chosen reaction card costs that Methuselah's vampires an additional
> blood. That Methuselah may move 1 pool to this card as a master phase
> action. Burn this card when it has 2 pool counters. A Methuselah can
> have only 1 Regarhagan's Hold.
>
> Consider this card for a second... TWO POOL to give a minor set back
to
> someone's playing of a reaction card.
>
> Its greatest strength is in targetting Wakes or FAs. However someone
> recommended using it to target bleed bounce. They said that that is
> another reason of why this card exists.
>
> I think this card is crap in general, and crap for bounce denial (the
> better of the holds, but still crap).
>
generally its total crap in that it actually costs you 2 pool and an
oot master phase - wtf????? (in a David Cross voice)
I unfortunately tried to build a deck almost solely around this card
(before i used ARDB unfortunately so I don't have the list) and I found
it almost useless but maybe now that the Events are around like the
slow withering (to make those deflections cost 3 blood at superior...)
leave them in your trade boxes till a card comes out to really
complement R. hold.
jds
Screaming Vermillian wrote:
<snip>
>
> So yeah. Over all, I don't like this card as an anti-bounce effect.
Too
> general (can target any reaction), and as a result its too costly
(two
> pool!) for an effect (one blood cost) that not all SB decks can
utilize
> (only OBT DOM bleeder [shadow twin], or a THA DOM [cryptic and
thefts]
> bleeder perhaps) to an effect that's worth the cost.
>
> ~SV
What about in conjunction with Temptation? Kind of a damned if you do
damned if you don't scenario! Tempt as set up, then before a big Bleed
rush play Regarhagan's selecting his bounce, bleed and watch the blood
dwindle OR watch the pool dwindle...then take control of anyone who got
in range bleed some more or what ever...not great but something else to
think about.
Dean
True, and I'm a huge fan of FoS toolboxing stuff decks. (recently I
made one featuring Salubri and Heidelburg for the sucking of Spirit
Marionetted vampires).
RHold is another silly little thing with which I could think about
playing. Something like
7 temptation
3 Form of C.
10 Legal Manipulation
15 Stealth
13 Combat Def.
15 masters (include holds)
17 wakes and esctasy
Play with Synesious for extra master phase actions maybe...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Or Dominion, Camarilla Exemp, Free States Rant, Vampiric Disease,
etc...
The key is blood loss. It's a powerful strategy, but only if you can
take advantage of it.
The holds, though, are more nuanced than that. They are very flexible
and therefore not always useful. As far as anti-bounce goes,
Regarhagan's is only useful for this in certain situations. For
instance, if your prey uses a support staff of weenie dom with
deflections (surrounding a mono-vamp deck, for instance), then you
apply Regarhagan's to the bounce. Tell Royce to shove it. If, on the
other hand, you're facing a bunch of Ventrue voters that are filling up
with voter caps every turn, well then you can just discard Reg's.
Regarhagan's is not terribly impressive by itself. None of the holds
are. (Though I really like Chiram's.) They're support cards. It's
something to assist a strategy, not a strategy in and of itself.
And one other thing - it always bothers me when people say something
like, "What is with this stupid card?" I'm generally skeptical about
that person's openness to new strategies involving the card. Plus, if
someone is apparently hostile towards a card, I have to wonder if I'm
going to get into a stupid debate just because I'm offering an
alternate viewpoint. I appreciate it much more when someone says, "I'd
really like to make this seemingly weak card work better." Just a
thought for those looking for advice on specific cards/strategies.
Eric Simon
Prince of Chicago
Eric Simon wrote:
>Or Dominion, Camarilla Exemp, Free States Rant, Vampiric Disease,
>etc...>The key is blood loss. It's a powerful strategy, but only if you can
>take advantage of it.
Add a few of these and it could really be a machine...
Dean
"And one other thing - it always bothers me when people say something
like, "What is with this stupid card?" I'm generally skeptical about
that person's openness to new strategies involving the card. Plus, if
someone is apparently hostile towards a card, I have to wonder if I'm
going to get into a stupid debate just because I'm offering an
alternate viewpoint. I appreciate it much more when someone says, "I'd
really like to make this seemingly weak card work better." Just a
thought for those looking for advice on specific cards/strategies.
Eric Simon"
Well, I did start mentioning things about DOM OBT bleeders having uses
for it with a conjunction with other cards. And SER OBF PRE with
temptations and stuff.
So THERE! I'm giving positive feedback and complaints at the same time.
Oh, but anarchs suck. There's no if and or buts about it. :P
[ quoted text not captured ]
I actually had that happen to me. Sitting next to a crazy deck that had
!Torries and Tzimisces, focused on Auspex Celerity and Vicissitude, got
Goth Band and gave Regarhagen's Hold to me (put a Wake on it) and stole
the pool I put on Regarhagen's with the Goth Band. When I blocked, it
was Malleable Visage... Crazy, crazy deck. ;)
--
Bye,
Daneel
> 1.) I want to bleed without changing my bleed target, but this card
> doesn't do that. It just punishes my opponents minions. I'm not
> interested in the blood totals on my opponents minions. I'm interested
> in their pool count.
>
Blood Doll, Minion Tap, 2nd Trad, Deflection, Telepathic Misdirection,
there cards are of no concern to you?
> 2.) To make best use of this card, I'd need some reason to care why
> their minions have less blood. My SB deck doesn't have that, unless I
> start adding some other cards that might synergy with the less blood on
> prey's minions angle, like Shadow Twin, but now I need to combo
> something, do as something as simple as making sure my bleed hits home.
>
Tenebrous Form, Dominion, Crocodile's Tongue, etc., etc.
> 4.) Costs me TWO POOL. Them: a few blood over the course of a few
> turns.
>
Again, Blood Doll?
"Blood Doll, Minion Tap, 2nd Trad, Deflection, Telepathic Misdirection,
there cards are of no concern to you?"
They are, but not generally in a SB deck. I'm looking for a quick kill,
and the longer I dally doing things like taking their blood off, the
longer others have to recognize my potential threat and beat me down
(as people facing SB decks often do).
"> 2.) To make best use of this card, I'd need some reason to care why
> their minions have less blood. My SB deck doesn't have that, unless I
> start adding some other cards that might synergy with the less blood
on
> prey's minions angle, like Shadow Twin, but now I need to combo
> something, do as something as simple as making sure my bleed hits
home.
Tenebrous Form, Dominion, Crocodile's Tongue, etc., etc."
Read. My SB deck loses synergy by adding things like Dominion and
Crocodiles Tongue. These belong in close to stealth and nearly bleed
decks. Catch my drift?
"> 4.) Costs me TWO POOL. Them: a few blood over the course of a few
> turns.
Again, Blood Doll?"
Again. The card is only good if they have another card, or rely on such
things. (Rhold axes one of their cards, only if they play with blood
dolls to take blood off of their minions (assuming they even bother
playing the cards), which they probably will be playing blood dolls).
You see how this ONE CARD which was supposed to be an answer to bleed
bounce just became a card that requires other cards to make it work?
On 22 Dec 2004 13:25:48 -0800, "DeanG" <dfgar...@msn.com> scrawled:
[ quoted text not captured ]
Tenebrous form as well, if it does what i seem to recall it does....
Obt/dom, dominion, sabbat priest, regarhahrons hold, tenebrous form.
that's gotta be worth something.
salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004, salem wrote:
> On 22 Dec 2004 13:25:48 -0800, "DeanG" <dfgar...@msn.com> scrawled:
>
> >Eric Simon wrote:
> >
> >>Or Dominion, Camarilla Exemp, Free States Rant, Vampiric Disease,
> >>etc...
> >
> >>The key is blood loss. It's a powerful strategy, but only if you can
> >>take advantage of it.
> >Add a few of these and it could really be a machine...
>
> Tenebrous form as well, if it does what i seem to recall it does....
>
> Obt/dom, dominion, sabbat priest, regarhahrons hold, tenebrous form.
>
> that's gotta be worth something.
Sure. Now when you get bounced (for 2 blood) on your bleed of 6 at 1
stealth, your grandprey must pay 3 blood off a vampire to block. :)
Actually, it's not that bad as your prey had to burn 4 blood to launch
that bleed. That's not probably going to happen too many more times.
Matt Morgan
>
> Sure. Now when you get bounced (for 2 blood) on your bleed of 6 at 1
> stealth, your grandprey must pay 3 blood off a vampire to block. :)
>
> Actually, it's not that bad as your prey had to burn 4 blood to launch
> that bleed. That's not probably going to happen too many more times.
>
> Matt Morgan
>
Been there. When Black Hand appeared, I build a Black Hand lasombra deck
with several priest votes, dominions, bloodings and tenebrous form. As I
wanted to test what can be done with nahir (she was the main star) I added 4
banishments and 6 shadow twins on top. Obviously the deck had a slow setup,
but once established and with a handsize of 10+ it worked really fine. Keep
in mind that if they don't have the blood to burn to attempt to blok you,
then they cannot block at all. Didn't packed Regerhagan's, though. Neither
other holds. How could I forgot them? (There is no sarcasm here, those who
know me know that I like most of the holds, as blood denial is a kind of
play I like most)
"Merry Christmas, Vermillian :D"
And a merry X mas to you too. (though anarchs are now finally
tournament viable with the inclusion of Powerbase LA... man. its almost
like WW admitted that I was right!)
On 25 Dec 2004 19:37:51 -0800, vol...@yahoo.com scrawled:
>I rather like to think that Powerbase LA is a boon to those of us who
>have been trying to keep the faith all this time. :)
it's kind of like throwing a chocolate to a dog dying of malnutrition.
sure, it's going to be happy. but really, it's not going to help much.
it's a timing-restricted Barrens, The. but with a hint of bonus with
the untap an anarch thing. but, really, untapping one guy. during your
discard. woo.
[ quoted text not captured ]
>I rather like to think that Powerbase LA is a boon to those of us who
>have been trying to keep the faith all this time.
I probably shouldn't bother - it's kind of fluffy and it's just likely to get
me into trouble.
But, what do you mean by keep the faith?
I've played, what, ~20 different anarch decks (obviously I'm not talking about
tournament play). How to put this? Assume you know what I mean by a "general
strategy". I want every general strategy to be interesting or to not exist in
the case of something I find obnoxious like Brinksmanship. I'm all in favor of
anarch decks getting more interesting since I don't find them currently that
much so. Much like I'd like to see the Assamites get some help not just
because I think that either the clans should be in close balance or that they
should regularly rise and fall but because I'd like to find them interesting
and don't particularly do.
Possibly not a terribly interesting point since it's something most people
would want, but I guess the point is that I'd hope every underdeveloped and/or
underpowered strategy (again, except those that shouldn't exist) would get
consideration.
"Curevei" <cur...@aol.commetal> escribió en el mensaje
news:20041226111730...@mb-m12.aol.com...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Under my point of view, this card grants anarch absed decks to use
cornercase cards with great effect under restricted situations. If there's
no chance to use them, then simply use them to untap your vamps at the end
of turn. Exemple: Most Action 3-ways (smash and grab, principia...), along
with a way to stack lots of gehenna events in an anarch deck. Been toying
lately with 10+event cards decks, and found that it's imperative to add some
form of extra discard, as I use my DPA to put in play events, but still need
to ditch the extra copies of key cards (like status perfectus, slow
withering, etc)
My question is, if I discard 2 cards that require anarch during my discard
phase (one of my own, another from the Powerbase) may I untap 2 anarchs?
Smiling Tom
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 20:24:34 +1100, salem <salem_ch...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> On 25 Dec 2004 19:37:51 -0800, vol...@yahoo.com scrawled:
>>> I rather like to think that Powerbase LA is a boon to those of us who
>> have been trying to keep the faith all this time. :)>
> it's kind of like throwing a chocolate to a dog dying of malnutrition.
> sure, it's going to be happy. but really, it's not going to help much.
> it's a timing-restricted Barrens, The. but with a hint of bonus with
> the untap an anarch thing. but, really, untapping one guy. during your
> discard. woo.
Compare with Metro Underground. Except it can be stolen and it costs a
card instead of a pool. Not that bad of a tradeoff. Probably works best
with fattie Anarchs.
--
Bye,
Daneel
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 20:04:36 GMT, Daneel <dan...@eposta.hu> scrawled:
[ quoted text not captured ]
i agree. not that bad a tradeoff. possibly LA's a hint better, on a
cost-to-effect scale. however, how often do you hear people raving
about how good Metro Underground is?
> Probably works best
>with fattie Anarchs.
yup. and Eyes of the Dead probably works best stacked after a
Deadliest Sin when someone's trying to diablerise at +4 stealth.
doesn't mean it's good, though....
all my harsh comments aside, if they keep adding these small aids to
anarchs, eventually they should end up playable. here's hoping! as i
really like them.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:00:36 +0100, "Smiling Tom"
<tma...@almadrava.net> scrawled:
>My question is, if I discard 2 cards that require anarch during my discard
>phase (one of my own, another from the Powerbase) may I untap 2 anarchs?
perhaps card text may shed some light on that one.
"Tap during your discard phase to gain a discard phase action. If you
use *that* discard phase action to discard a card that requires an
anarch or a card that makes a vampire an anarch, you may untap a ready
anarch."
emphasis added by me.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Smiling Tom wrote:
> My question is, if I discard 2 cards that require anarch during my discard
> phase (one of my own, another from the Powerbase) may I untap 2 anarchs?
No. Card text: "that discard phase action"
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/