{LSJ} Phantom Speaker vs. Cats' Guidance

Vampire A attempts an action. Vampire B attempts to block. Vampire declares the block successful, then plays Phantom Speaker at [MEL] to make the block unsuccessful. Can Vampire B play Cats' Guidance during this action? If so, when? John Eno

[ quoted text not captured ] In most situations the word "Not" or to make something unsuccessful takes presidence over the successful completion of sead situation. In short if a card is played that prevents something from happening then its as if in never actually happened at all and anything that would have trigred will no longer trigre. Also, Cats' Guidance is played after a succesful block and since combat is part of bloking you cant play Cats' Guidance untill after combat is over. Aaron Miller

On Oct 2, 9:07 pm, aaronmiller38 <aaronmille...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Oct 2, 1:25 pm, Kushiel <invisibleking...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Vampire A attempts an action. Vampire B attempts to block. Vampire > > declares the block successful, then plays Phantom Speaker at [MEL] to > > make the block unsuccessful. > > > Can Vampire B play Cats' Guidance during this action? If so, when? > Nope. Can't play for intercept - cos you can no longer block, thus don't need intercept (cornercase example for need to cycle). AND Can't play to untap because you did not block ("The block fails") which is necessary for Cat's Guidance. > Also, Cats' Guidance is played after a succesful block and since > combat is part of bloking you cant play Cats' Guidance untill after > combat is over. Not quite the reason I would give, because in a situation like Vampire A playing a mirror walk, there will be no combat, but Vampire B is still entitled to play Cat's Guidance to untap, as the action was blocked. That's way Cat's has the reminder text of "play after combat (*if any*)" - emphasis is mine.

It's super-annoying that I can't see LSJ's response, even though I can see that he did respond. I'm starting to hate Google groups. Anyone who can see his post feel like reposting it? On Oct 2, 4:11 pm, The Name Forgotten <tex...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > Nope...Can't play to untap because you did not block ("The block fails") > which is necessary for Cat's Guidance. You *did* block, though, since you have to block successfully before Phantom Speaker can be played. It's a weird card that way - I'm not sure why it triggers on a successful block rather than a block attempt, the way all the other block-fails cards do. And, also weirdly, Cats' Guidance doesn't indicate that it can only be played after a "successful" block, just after a block. That's why the question arose in the first place. John Eno

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:45:38 -0700, Kushiel <invisibl...@gmail.com> wrote: >It's super-annoying that I can't see LSJ's response, even though I can >see that he did respond. I'm starting to hate Google groups. > >Anyone who can see his post feel like reposting it? ---------------------- No. Unless he played a Wake to make the block in the first place (or is otherwise tapped). In the latter case, he may play Cats' Guidance immedaitly to untap. Then, if the action resolves successfully, the Phantom Speaker effect will tap him. ----------------------

On Oct 3, 5:15 am, The Lasombra <TheLasom...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > No. Unless he played a Wake to make the block in the first place (or > is otherwise tapped). > > In the latter case, he may play Cats' Guidance immedaitly to untap. > Then, if the action resolves successfully, the Phantom Speaker effect > will tap him. > > ---------------------- So you're saying that even though the block fails as per card text of Phantom Speaker, this still satisfies the condition of "immediately after he or she blocks"? Cats' Guidance does not need to be a successful block to be played? Cool...

[ quoted text not captured ] Check card text again. Phantom Speaker cannot be played unless there was a successful block.

On Oct 3, 10:02 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > JJeff wrote: > > So you're saying that even though the block fails as per card text of > > Phantom Speaker, this still satisfies the condition of "immediately > > after he or she blocks"? Cats' Guidance does not need to be a > > successful block to be played? Cool... > > Check card text again. > > Phantom Speaker cannot be played unless there was a successful block. I'm sorry. I understand that Phantom Speaker is played if the block was successful. I am under the impression that the acting Meth has priority and thus would be able to play the Phantom Speaker first, before the blocking Meth is able to play Cats' Guidance (which is played after combat). Doesn't Phantom Speaker say "The block fails.."? Thus my question. At the point the blocking Meth can play Cats' Guidance, the block would have failed (as per card text of Phantom Speaker), I have always played that Cats' Guidance could not be played since the block was now not successful. I seem to be wrong in my opinion. Thank you

[ quoted text not captured ] This is exactly what I thought. There would be no window in which Cat's Guidance could be played, as ordinarily when one blocks, you would be expecting combat, so you would have to wait before playing cat's guidance, but then the acting meth would play phantom speaker, and you would not have a window in which to play cat's guidance as your block now fails. Barring some crazy timing rule, I don't see when Cat's will be able to be played legitimately.