In article <3qipjo$b...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>,
Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>
>GENERAL RULINGS
>
>1) The following describes the process of a political action.
Thanks for the clarification. Well done.
>
>REVERSALS
>
>1) Cat's Guidance and Change of Target are used as soon as it is
>determined that the action is in fact blocked, i.e., before combat
>begins.
>
>2) Superior Freak Drive would be used at the same time as Cat's
>Guidance or Change of Target. Freak Drive at its normal level is
>only used when it is clear that the action is successful, i.e.,
>once everyone has finished playing action modifiers and reactions.
Hrmm. So what happens when I Freak Drive after being blocked to
untap, but then the blocker plays Obedience. Obviously, the
last line on (superior) obedience was meant to be:
"but the acting vampire is not untapped", but since you guys
can't keep it straight that combat is the process of blocking
(except when the opp. of diablerie is the process of blocking:
self-rescue and Rapid Healing) - the card says "but the acting
vampire is tapped."
A miniscule oversight that the DT will no doubt put in the
pile with Concealed Weapon.
>Special Note: If a bleed action winds up bleeding for 0, the
>action is not considered successful. Thus it is possible for
>Telepathic Counter to stop Freak Drive from being used on an
>action.
Going out of our way for a rule now, are we?
Why not let a successful action fizzle like a failed vote?
Keep It Simple, Sir. :-)
Freak Drive shouldn't conceptually be thwarted by TC anyhow,
even if you like these convoluted rulings.
>ERRATA TO CARDS AND RULES
>
>1) Moving Society of Leopold to a new vampire is a directed
>action.
>
>2) Blood Bond is a directed action.
You wouldn't need these stapled ruling if you simply let the
directedness of an action determine it's directedness (let
the (D) be a reminder, like it was originally meant to be).
But, why keep things manageable?
>4) Monocle of Clarity. While the text of the monocle doesn't
>limit in any way the nature of the questions asked, it has been
>demonstrated that people can easily ruin the fun of the game by
>asking questions of an "unfriendly" nature. Thus, we recommend
>the following guidelines when using Monocle of Clarity:
This still allows Alan Kwan's Logistician's Indecent Question (tm),
but it's a good thing nonetheless.
--
-----
L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) | The opinions expressed are mine
Graphics Specialist and Jyhad Rulemonger | and subject to card text
GENERAL RULINGS
1) The following describes the process of a political action.
Yes, we are aware that probably not everyone uses these rules.
However, we consider these rules to allow the maximum flexibility
while creating the fewest contradictions in the cards.
A political action is defined as any action that will lead to
a vote. This includes using a political action card, trying to
burn an Anarch Revolt, etc. A bloodhunt following diablerie is
not considered a political action, since the intent of the action
was to diablerize, not to call a vote. If the vote requires any
choices (e.g. Disputed Location), the player may announce the
intended choice(s) at this time, but is not required to follow
through on them.
Assuming a political action is successfully completed (i.e.,
not successfully blocked), the acting player sets the referendum
of the vote. This is when the player is required to make any
choices involved with the vote. Again, the choice(s) made now do
not have to agree with any that were announced as the action
began.
Once the referendum is set, the voting process begins. The
political action has two steps: a preparatory step, and a vote
casting step. Cards such as Bribes, which say they are only
usable "before votes are cast", are only usable during the
preparatory step. No votes are actually cast during this step,
though cards that give votes may be used at that time in case the
player wants to cast those votes later. Cards used during the
preparatory step are not replaced until later.
Once the preparatory step concludes, players begin casting
votes. At this point only cards that give votes, or that modify
vampires' ability to vote, may be used. So Bewitching Oration,
using Ventrue Headquarters, and Pulling Strings are all legal, but
Elder Kindred Network is now illegal. It is possible to play a
card that gives votes without casting them right away, instead
holding those votes in reserve until later in the action.
Once everyone has finished gaining and casting votes, the
votes are tallied and the outcome is determined. Once the outcome
is known, cards like Political Action and Cryptic Rider may be
played. Only when players are done playing such cards do players
refill their hands.
Example: A Disputed Location action is successful, so the
referendum is set and the voting process begins. Some player
plays Dread Gaze to gain 2 votes for that action. These votes are
not cast yet, but are available until the vote is tallied, and may
be used later if needed. The acting player plays Bribes, which
will be relevant to that action only. With no more preparatory
cards to be played, the vote casting step begins. The Dread Gaze
votes can still be held in reserve, and used at any point before
votes are tallied.
Example: Cassandra plays Dread Gaze during the preparatory
step, but can't cast votes at that time so hangs onto them.
During the vote casting step, before Cassandra casts her votes,
Democritus plays Pulling Strings on her. Cassandra now cannot use
her Primogen vote, and her votes from Dread Gaze are also
cancelled.
Example: In a later vote, Cassandra plays another Dread
Gaze, and also hangs on to those votes. Astrid Thomas then throws
in her vote. Cassandra is not required to cast any votes
(including those from Dread Gaze), but any votes she does cast
must agree with Astrid's.
2) Following the initial Resolve Strike step of a round, the
acting minion decides whether to play any additional strikes, and
then the blocking minion decides whether to do so. If the acting
minion declines to use additional strikes and then the blocking
minion decides to do so, the acting minion cannot change its mind.
Presses and maneuvers follow a different procedure because
each maneuver or press played after the first cancels the previous
play. Additional strikes don't cancel each other, so the process
used for presses and maneuvers is not used for additional strikes.
REVERSALS
1) Cat's Guidance and Change of Target are used as soon as it is
determined that the action is in fact blocked, i.e., before combat
begins.
2) Superior Freak Drive would be used at the same time as Cat's
Guidance or Change of Target. Freak Drive at its normal level is
only used when it is clear that the action is successful, i.e.,
once everyone has finished playing action modifiers and reactions.
Special Note: If a bleed action winds up bleeding for 0, the
action is not considered successful. Thus it is possible for
Telepathic Counter to stop Freak Drive from being used on an
action.
ERRATA TO CARDS AND RULES
1) Moving Society of Leopold to a new vampire is a directed
action.
2) Blood Bond is a directed action.
3) Cryptic Rider can only be used if a vote passes.
CARD RULINGS
1) "Suppose I have The Rack in play, but the vampire it was
helping has been burned. If I use Disputed Location to give
myself control of The Rack, do I get to pick a new vampire?"
No. The Rack must actually change controllers for a new
vampire to be selected.
2) Madness Network allows untapped Malkavians to block the action
in addition to the normal "prey and predator" blocking allowed for
non-directed actions. It is not considered to override the
default rules. This also means that Anneke and a vampire using
Eagle's Sight could attempt to block the action.
3) If superior Form of Mist is used to continue the action, the
minion that originally blocked the vampire may block it again as
per the normal procedures.
4) Monocle of Clarity. While the text of the monocle doesn't
limit in any way the nature of the questions asked, it has been
demonstrated that people can easily ruin the fun of the game by
asking questions of an "unfriendly" nature. Thus, we recommend
the following guidelines when using Monocle of Clarity:
i) Questions about questions may not be asked. For example,
you cannot ask "Will the answer to my next question be yes?"
ii) Questions can only pertain to the game in progress. For
example, you cannot ask "Will you always vote in my favor next
game?", or "Will you go out with me Friday night?"
iii) If a question about the future is asked, the player who
answered is only held to that answer until your next untap phase.
For example, if you ask someone "Will you make every attempt to
block my actions?", whatever answer is given should only be
enforced until your next turn.
Can you throw + vote cards before terms are set? Technically, by your
definitions, you could. Most people play that you can't (otherwise they
could be replaced), and if they can't, you should change "only playable
during a political action" to "only playable during a referendum".
Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)
In article <3qipjo$b...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>,
Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>REVERSALS>
>Special Note: If a bleed action winds up bleeding for 0, the
>action is not considered successful. Thus it is possible for
>Telepathic Counter to stop Freak Drive from being used on an
>action.
Why does the success of an action depend on the success of the
bleed? You can have a political action pass without the vote passing,
so what's conceptually wrong with having the action successful while the
bleed was not? After all, "If unblocked, the minion's action is
successful." (Section 14, Summary of the Course of an Action, #4).
>3) If superior Form of Mist is used to continue the action, the
>minion that originally blocked the vampire may block it again as
>per the normal procedures.
Beg pardon? Why? You have to be untapped to block, and the
minion that just blocked is tapped. They'd have to Wake or something to
block, wouldn't they?
Even so, if this rule *is* upheld, does the tapped blocker get
to keep all intercept earned up to this point, or does she have to start
over from scratch?
| If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--*
| PC game, call the announce line at | js...@vt.edu
| ** csi...@discus.ise.vt.edu ** |
+-------------------------------------+----------------------------------
"There. That should do nicely. After all, we don't want the locals to
see grannies clipped to trash bins by their teeth, do we?" -- Mr. Gone
js...@discus.ise.vt.edu (Joseph Cochran) writes:
>In article <3qipjo$b...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>,
>Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:>>REVERSALS
>>>>Special Note: If a bleed action winds up bleeding for 0, the
>>action is not considered successful. Thus it is possible for
>>Telepathic Counter to stop Freak Drive from being used on an
>>action.> Why does the success of an action depend on the success of the>bleed? You can have a political action pass without the vote passing,
>so what's conceptually wrong with having the action successful while the
>bleed was not? After all, "If unblocked, the minion's action is
>successful." (Section 14, Summary of the Course of an Action, #4).>>3) If superior Form of Mist is used to continue the action, the>>minion that originally blocked the vampire may block it again as
>>per the normal procedures.> Beg pardon? Why? You have to be untapped to block, and the>minion that just blocked is tapped. They'd have to Wake or something to
>block, wouldn't they?
> Even so, if this rule *is* upheld, does the tapped blocker get
>to keep all intercept earned up to this point, or does she have to start
>over from scratch?
The original blocker (if Woken, or if not tapped in the first place -
Cat's Guidance or that Malk that doesn't tap to block children) would
still have all the intercept gained in the first block attempt:
13.3.2: Increased Stealth and Intercept return to normal after the action
is resolved.
Note that if the blocker was Woken to block in the first attempt, he need
not be woken again for the second attempt since the Wake with Eve's Freshness
is still in force. (from Tom Wylie).
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) | These opinions are mine and
Graphics Specialist and Jyhad Rulemonger. | are subject to card text.
In article <3ql524$8...@redwood.cs.scarolina.edu>,
L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote:
>js...@discus.ise.vt.edu (Joseph Cochran) writes:>>>3) If superior Form of Mist is used to continue the action, the
>>>minion that originally blocked the vampire may block it again as
>>>per the normal procedures.>>> Beg pardon? Why? You have to be untapped to block, and the
>>minion that just blocked is tapped. They'd have to Wake or something to
>>block, wouldn't they?>>Note that if the blocker was Woken to block in the first attempt, he need
>not be woken again for the second attempt since the Wake with Eve's Freshness
>is still in force. (from Tom Wylie).
Wait a second. Mebbe I misunderstood the answer the DT gave.
Tom, are you saying a) The minion can block again without extra cardplay
(other than that necessary to overcome the +1 stealth from Form of
Mist), or b) The minion is not forbidden from attempting to block again
if she can use some method of untapping or blocking while tapped?
[ quoted text not captured ]
js...@discus.ise.vt.edu (Joseph Cochran) writes:
>In article <3ql524$8...@redwood.cs.scarolina.edu>,
>L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote:>>js...@discus.ise.vt.edu (Joseph Cochran) writes:>>>>3) If superior Form of Mist is used to continue the action, the
>>>>minion that originally blocked the vampire may block it again as
>>>>per the normal procedures.>>>>> Beg pardon? Why? You have to be untapped to block, and the
>>>minion that just blocked is tapped. They'd have to Wake or something to
>>>block, wouldn't they?>>
>>Note that if the blocker was Woken to block in the first attempt, he need
>>not be woken again for the second attempt since the Wake with Eve's Freshness
>>is still in force. (from Tom Wylie).> Wait a second. Mebbe I misunderstood the answer the DT gave.
>Tom, are you saying a) The minion can block again without extra cardplay
>(other than that necessary to overcome the +1 stealth from Form of
>Mist), or b) The minion is not forbidden from attempting to block again
>if she can use some method of untapping or blocking while tapped?
(Since Tom won't answer 'til he returns...)
His post *did* say the original blocker may block again "as per the normal
procedures." Part of the normal procedures is being untapped or playing
a card that gets around being tapped (Wakey).
When I asked the question that prompted this DT Rule, it was about whether
the Wakey played to block the first time was still in effect (to allow
the second block if I could get one more intercept). The answer then was
"I believe so, but I'll check with the DT".
[ quoted text not captured ]
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:
>Date: 31 May 1995 22:12:08 GMT>1) The following describes the process of a political action.>[...]
Nowhere in this description did it mention whether the Methusalah whose minion
called the vote may use Political Action cards for votes. Without this
restriction, the degenerate Weenie-KRC deck becomes unstoppable.
Please clarify this.
>CARD RULINGS>4) Monocle of Clarity. While the text of the monocle doesn't
>limit in any way the nature of the questions asked, it has been
>demonstrated that people can easily ruin the fun of the game by
>asking questions of an "unfriendly" nature. Thus, we recommend
>the following guidelines when using Monocle of Clarity:
> i) Questions about questions may not be asked. For example,
>you cannot ask "Will the answer to my next question be yes?"
> ii) Questions can only pertain to the game in progress. For
>example, you cannot ask "Will you always vote in my favor next
>game?", or "Will you go out with me Friday night?"
> iii) If a question about the future is asked, the player who
>answered is only held to that answer until your next untap phase.
>For example, if you ask someone "Will you make every attempt to
>block my actions?", whatever answer is given should only be
>enforced until your next turn.
As the Cosmic Encounter playtester who turned the Seeker into one of the most
powerful aliens in the game, I believe I have some experience with this. The
most powerful effect of the "questions about the future" aspect is the ability
to remove all of your opponents' degrees of freedom over the course of a few
turns. "When you attempt to bleed me, will you use Anvil?" either nullifies
Anvil as a bleeder or restricts all bleed attempts to the poor wizard-punk.
However, with restriction iii), the previous two restrictions are unnecessary.
In the previous example, Anvil would only be restricted for a turn, and Tura
could waltz in and threaten your face off. The next turn, the question would
have to be posed again; it is still a useful question, but the target
Methusalah is not having their options removed like limbs, leaving
quadraplegic Elder Vampires around the table.
"Questions about questions" become moot, as the Monocle is Unique, and only
questions asked with the Monocle _must_ be answered truthfully.
"Questions may only pertain to the game in progress" becomes moot, as the
"next game"-type questions are lost with the next untap phase, and the "out of
game"-type questions are being asked of a player, not a Methusalah (i.e., the
crucial difference between the actress and her role).
_Please_ change the text on the Monocle of Clarity so that "questions about
the future" are only bound until the next untap phase. The Monocle is still a
powerful device, but it shouldn't take over the game.
Mark Amidon
Nosferatu-in-training
"When next you bleed me, will you enhance it?"
- if "yes", clobber all vamps with Dominate and/or Presence
- if "no", get Telepathic Counter ready.