Succubus ability question

Can she steal blood from a minion you control yourself? If so, who can block? Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

On Sun, 5 Nov 2000, cantila wrote: > Can she steal blood from a minion you control yourself? If so, who can > block? As there is no contradiction by card text or errata, yes. As with all (D) actions directed at yourself, they work as if they were an undirected action. Your prey gets first chance to block, and then your predator. The action is, however, at +1 stealth (as per the Succubus's card text), don't forget. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "Steve: Yeah, well that's one of the advantages of being a sad, lonely fairy, I guess. You get to learn how to be a spy." - Stephen Fry, Making History

In article <Pine.SOL.4.21.0011051541070.19873- 100...@yellow.csi.cam.ac.uk>, James Coupe <jr...@cam.ac.uk> wrote: > On Sun, 5 Nov 2000, cantila wrote: > > > Can she steal blood from a minion you control yourself? If so, who can > > block? > > As there is no contradiction by card text or errata, yes. > > As with all (D) actions directed at yourself, they work as if they were an > undirected action. Your prey gets first chance to block, and then your > predator. The action is, however, at +1 stealth (as per the Succubus's > card text), don't forget. > Nice...then you could use a Hell Hound as a supply for life for your succubus (or Vagabond Mystic, but then you'd have use it for that in that turn, a HH heals himself). [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe <jr...@cam.ac.uk> wrote > On Sun, 5 Nov 2000, cantila wrote: > > > Can she steal blood from a minion you control yourself? If so, who can > > block? > > As there is no contradiction by card text or errata, yes. > > As with all (D) actions directed at yourself, they work as if they were an > undirected action. Your prey gets first chance to block, and then your > predator. The action is, however, at +1 stealth (as per the Succubus's > card text), don't forget. Has this been officially ruled/clarified? From just reading the rules one would have to assume that (D) Actions cannot be directed at yourself/your cards, as they are per definition targeted against *another* Methuselah (e.g. see pg 29 of the new rule book). Michael

In article <GNmN5.46235$Le2.2...@news.chello.at>, "mostly harmless" <mostlyh...@chello.atNOSPAM!> wrote: > > James Coupe <jr...@cam.ac.uk> wrote > > On Sun, 5 Nov 2000, cantila wrote: > > > > As with all (D) actions directed at yourself, they work as if they > > were an undirected action. Your prey gets first chance to block, > > and then your predator. The action is, however, at +1 stealth (as > > per the Succubus's card text), don't forget. > > Has this been officially ruled/clarified? Yes. http://lasombra.tripod.com/RTR7-7.htm In the 7-7 Rules Team Rulings. Also in the new rule book. See page 26. "The target Methuselah may try to block the action with any of her ready untapped minions. If the action doesn't target another Methusaleh (or targets more than one), then the minions of the prey and predator may try to block." > From just reading the rules one would have to assume that (D) > Actions cannot be directed at yourself/your cards, as they are per > definition targeted against *another* Methuselah (e.g. see pg 29 of > the new rule book). Read page 28 first, "As a convenience, when a card describes an action that is typically directed at another Methuselah, the card's text will usually include a (D) symbol as a reminder that the action is typically directed." There is nothing on page 29 that mentions directing actions at yourself or others, so I'm not sure what you are referring to. It does, however, mention that bleeding is a directed action. It does not define (D) actions in any way. Carpe Noctem. Lasombra http://lasombra.tripod.com http://legbiter.tripod.com [ quoted text not captured ]

The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote: > "mostly harmless" <mostlyh...@chello.atNOSPAM!> wrote: > > James Coupe <jr...@cam.ac.uk> wrote > > > As with all (D) actions directed at yourself, they work as if they > > > were an undirected action. Correct, moreover: They *are* undirected actions, which is why they work as if they were. > > Has this been officially ruled/clarified? > > From just reading the rules one would have to assume that (D) > > Actions cannot be directed at yourself/your cards, as they are per > > definition targeted against *another* Methuselah (e.g. see pg 29 of > > the new rule book). > > Read page 28 first, > > "As a convenience, when a card describes an action that is > typically directed at another Methuselah, the card's text > will usually include a (D) symbol as a reminder that the > action is typically directed." > > There is nothing on p29 that mentions directing actions at yourself > or others, so I'm not sure what you are referring to. It does, > however, mention that bleeding is a directed action. It does not > define (D) actions in any way. So we're clear: (D) actions are directed actions. (D) is just shorthand for "directed". The (D) symbol doesn't specify what targets are legal. Card text specifies which targets are legal. If the chosen target is a card you control, then the action is not directed, per the definition of directed. The (D) symbol does not prevent you from choosing a target you control (so long as card text allows it) - it merely identifies the action as one that is "typically" directed. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote... [ quoted text not captured ] Uhm, sorry. I meant pg.28, of course. And now I reread it, I noticed it says that (D) actions are *typically* directed against another Methuselah, which seems to imply that there can be exceptions. My thoughts were that since the card text on Succubus says the blood stealing ability is a (D) Action, and (D) Actions can only be blocked by the target Methuselah's minions, the action would be unblockable and that just didn't seem right. It's the same as with a certain Sabbat Powerbase (I don't have the cards for reference right now) card that allows any minion to steal the blood on it as a (D) action. I always assumed tht since it's (D), "any" would not include the Powerbase owner's minions and therfore the unblockable action situation coul not occur. Michael

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote... > The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > "mostly harmless" <mostlyh...@chello.atNOSPAM!> wrote: > > > James Coupe <jr...@cam.ac.uk> wrote > > > > As with all (D) actions directed at yourself, they work as if they > > > > were an undirected action. > > Correct, moreover: > They *are* undirected actions, which is why they work as if they were. > [...] > > So we're clear: (D) actions are directed actions. (D) is just > shorthand for "directed". The (D) symbol doesn't specify what > targets are legal. Card text specifies which targets are legal. > If the chosen target is a card you control, then the action > is not directed, per the definition of directed. The (D) symbol > does not prevent you from choosing a target you control (so long > as card text allows it) - it merely identifies the action as > one that is "typically" directed. > Aah, "typical" is the magic word. I think the old rule book didn't have it in the definition. So directed actions can be directed at yourself, but become undirected in the process, right? (Does that mean I can bleed myself???) Michael

"mostly harmless" <mostlyh...@chello.atNOSPAM!> wrote in message news:80xN5.52712$Le2.2...@news.chello.at... > So directed actions can be directed at yourself, but become undirected in > the process, right? > (Does that mean I can bleed myself???) No, a bleed is always directed at your prey unless card text says otherwise. Kindred Spirits, Cat Burglary at superior *do* say bleed any Methuselah...hmm...perhaps you could bleed yourself with either of these cards...a question for LSJ, I suppose. But I suppose I would take "any" to mean exactly that. Interesting (if useless) tweak for the ToGP deck... Xian -- I'd tell the world and save my soul, But rain falls down and I feel cold. A cold that sleeps within my heart, It tears the earth and sun apart. --_Shellshock_, New Order www.waste.org/~xian

In article <L1BN5.1035$5B1.1...@news.uswest.net>, "Xian" <xi...@waste.org> wrote: > > "mostly harmless" <mostlyh...@chello.atNOSPAM!> wrote in message > news:80xN5.52712$Le2.2...@news.chello.at... > > So directed actions can be directed at yourself, but become > > undirected in the process, right? Yes. > > (Does that mean I can bleed myself???) No. Page 23 of the Sabbat War rulebook. 6.1.1 Bleed "You can never bleed yourself, however." > No, a bleed is always directed at your prey unless card text says > otherwise. Kindred Spirits, Cat Burglary at superior *do* say bleed > any Methuselah...hmm...perhaps you could bleed yourself with either > of these cards...a question for LSJ, I suppose. But I suppose I > would take "any" to mean exactly that. Interesting (if useless) > tweak for the ToGP deck... No, you cannot bleed yourself per the rules. Page 23. If you are really desperate to remove some of your own pool for a ToGP deck, include the Succubus Club, and trade away pool for URLs (of Mike Ooi's behind, if so inclined). Carpe Noctem. Lasombra http://lasombra.tripod.com http://legbiter.tripod.com [ quoted text not captured ]