Create-a-Clan rules question

If I made a bloodline, how many copies of each vampire can I include? One or two?

On 5 Oct 2005 22:56:39 -0700, "Ector" <Ec...@mail.ru> wrote: >If I made a bloodline, how many copies of each vampire can I include? "The bloodline can have no more than 4 distinct vampires. (No more than 2 for a scarce bloodline.)" and " You may have no more than 2 copies of each vampire in your crypt." http://www.vtesinla.org/createaclan/cacrules.htm

[ quoted text not captured ] Thank you, I know these rules. I asked just because it seems extremely strange to me: if any player could use 8 Bloodline vampires of 12 in his crypt, the Bloodline would outshine the primary clan. This enables infernalism and Bloodlines disciplines that are prohibited for the main clan. Does it good? To me, only one copy of each Bloodline vampire should be allowed. Yours, Ector

[ quoted text not captured ] Thank you, I know these rules. But the real reason I asked: I just can't see logic in this. If anyone could create a bloodline of 4 vamps and use 2 copies of each, then 8 of 12 vampires in his crypt will be from the bloodline! This actually negates the restriction on "Bloodlines disciplines", allows infernalism, and so on. Maybe, it would be better to allow only one copy of Bloodline vampires, to ensure that Bloodline won't replace the main clan? Yours, Ector

[quotes from http://www.vtesinla.org/createaclan/cacrules.htm] "You may have up to one Caitiff and up to _four_ vampires from a bloodline you create." Nothing there about distinct vampires so I would read it four cards. "The bloodline can have no more than 4 distinct vampires. (No more than 2 for a scarce bloodline.)" Combine those two quotes and you get that the following combinations of bloodline vampires are legal always: 1xA 1xA 1xB 2xA 2xA 1xB 2xA 2xB And following if your bloodline is not scarce: 1xA 1xB 1xC 2xA 1xB 1xC 1xA 1xB 1xC 1xD

JH wrote: > [quotes from http://www.vtesinla.org/createaclan/cacrules.htm] > > "You may have up to one Caitiff and up to _four_ vampires from a > bloodline you create." > > Nothing there about distinct vampires so I would read it four cards. No. You can have up to two of each vampire you create in your crypt. Create four vampires for a bloodline. Put two of each of those _four_ vampires from a bloodline you create in your crypt. -- That is my story, be it bitter or be it sweet. Keep a little and let a little come back to me. LSJ (vtesrepS...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ wrote: > No. You can have up to two of each vampire you create in your crypt. > Create four vampires for a bloodline. > Put two of each of those _four_ vampires from a bloodline you create in > your crypt. So you could do a CaC deck with only 2 vampire cards of the main clan: Four different bloodlines vampires, each duplicated. One Caitiff duplicated. One main clan vampire duplicated?

JH wrote: > So you could do a CaC deck with only 2 vampire cards of the main clan: > Four different bloodlines vampires, each duplicated. One Caitiff > duplicated. One main clan vampire duplicated? Actually, if you made an advanced version of one of the Bloodlines vamps or the Caitiff, you could have a deck with no vampires from your main clan.

[ quoted text not captured ] You could make one of the four advanced (an advanced version of one of the other three), but doing so would not allow you to make a fifth vampire of the bloodline. At two each in your crypt, you could get away with making just one "main clan" vampire -- you have 1 main, 1 Caitiff, and 4 BL, for a total of six vampires. -- That is my story, be it bitter or be it sweet. Keep a little and let a little come back to me. LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005, Ector wrote: > Thank you, I know these rules. I asked just because it seems extremely > strange to me: if any player could use 8 Bloodline vampires of 12 in > his crypt, the Bloodline would outshine the primary clan. This enables > infernalism and Bloodlines disciplines that are prohibited for the main > clan. Does it good? To me, only one copy of each Bloodline vampire > should be allowed. Since it's not a sanctioned format, you can alter the rules to your liking if you want to run a Create-a-Clan event. Matt Morgan

In message <1128594282.7...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, Ector <Ec...@mail.ru> writes: >The Lasombra wrote: >> http://www.vtesinla.org/createaclan/cacrules.htm > >Thank you, I know these rules. But the real reason I asked: I just >can't see logic in this. If you know the rules and want to query the logic behind them, do that. Don't ask what the rules are, because then people will tell you, and you'll responding saying "I know the rules." Point of exchange = low. For example, a post could read: Is it the case that you can have 2 copies of each Bloodlines vampire in your crypt? That's what I think the rules say. But doesn't that mean you can have eight of them in a deck and overshadow the "main" clan? That seems a bit weird. Would it be sensible to limit the rules to only one of each Bloodline vampire in the deck, or make the deck have more than half of its vampires come from the main clan? This saves the tedious "people answering the question you asked, not the question you thought about" posts. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

LSJ wrote: > > At two each in your crypt, you could get away with making just one > "main clan" vampire -- you have 1 main, 1 Caitiff, and 4 BL, for a > total of six vampires. > Most likely, the "best" way to do it would be 4 BL vamps, 1 main clan vamp, and an advanced version of the main vamp. In Clan disciplines would be (a)(b)(c) for the main clan and (a)(d)(f) for the bloodlines clan, where (f) is a bloodlines discipline. Ideally, (b) and (c) are disciplines that can play outferiors of cards in discipline (f). The main vamp should probably be a 7 cap (though it depends on the exact deck you want to play) and would get disciplines like: (b)(c)(g)(A)(D), where (g) and (D) are out-of-clan, and (g) is presumably a 3rd discipline that can play outferiors from discipline (f). (if there are not 3 different outferior disicplines from discipline (f), then add any discipline you want as (g), or skip it and use it as an extra half-point of abilities) The advanced version of the main-vamp should have the same disciplines and should ideally have 4 points of abilities in his Merge text. If your vamp has 5 disciplines, then each version has 1.5 points to use. You can use .5 points on each one (e.g. 1 vote on the non-advanced, some ala-carte .5pt special on the advanced), and have 2 points left over, which translates to 4pts in merge specials. If your vamp doesn't bother with the 5th discipline, then you have an extra .5 to use (e.g. 2 votes on the non-advanced, +1 intercept on the advanced). The bloodlines vamps would be something generic, along the lines of: 3 (d)(f) 4 (A)(f) 5 (a)(D)(F) 7 (A)(D)(F)(b) - 1pt special Anyway, that's my theoretical formula for taking advantage of CaC rules. Obviously, it should be tweaked for each individual case. A deck that wants to splash dominate only on the main vamp, would make (b) = dom, and give him superior instead of a 5th discipline. A deck that only wants to use 2 main disciplines, would ignore (d) in favor of (a) at almost all points, etc... Okay, went off on a little tangent there, but oh well.

Chris Berger wrote: > > Anyway, that's my theoretical formula for taking advantage of CaC > rules. Obviously, it should be tweaked for each individual case. A > deck that wants to splash dominate only on the main vamp, would make > (b) = dom, and give him superior instead of a 5th discipline. A deck > that only wants to use 2 main disciplines, would ignore (d) in favor of > (a) at almost all points, etc... > Oh, almost forgot. You spoof Infernal Pact as your clan card, to give your main vamp (F) for only 2 pool.

> For example, a post could read: > > <snip good example> > > This saves the tedious "people answering the question > you asked, not the question you thought about" posts. James, thank you for setting a good example of how to give pleasant and constructive lessons in netiquette. I'm not being sarcastic! I hope that other people who choose to do this community a service by playing the role of netiquette police will follow your good example. Ira

In message <1128703757.7...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] You could toss in Spontaneous Power if you wanted to diversify your crypt a little more. (What with IP being unique.) It's not as good in general, though, but for extra access to weird disciplines, it could help. Especially if you're using Obeah/Temporis and bring it out after your influence out the Bloodline vampire (to avoid the scarce penalty). I was toying this over the other day, and had an idea for a bloodline that would have something like Obeah, Obfuscate, Serpentis. Possibly the main clan would have something like Serpentis, Dominate... something (for the bounce). The idea was to use Obeah/Serpentis for repeated vampire theft, with Heidelberg/Rave and Temptation and Spirit Marionette (also usable at Dom by the main clan). The idea was to use Summon the Serpent to fetch the vampires you wanted (as well as possibly Stranger Humongous), but I forgot how expensive that would make it... I'd forgotten the two blood cost. But since you could steal all the blood from other vampires, it might offset it. Hey-ho, it needs work. Lots of it. :-) [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Please excuse me for the awful wording. The only reason of this is my poor English, which isn't my native language, and the lack of time :( I just thought that I've missed some exception in the rules, or there are some additional rules, and I was absolutely sure that playing 8 Bloodline vampires isn't legal. Yes, I know that we can change rules for our tournament, but I prefer playing with "official" rules. Yours, Ector