Replacements (Re: Sabbat spoiler URL)

gaus...@uiuc.edu (David Gausebeck) writes: >http://www.wizards.com/Cardlists/VTES/Sabbat.txt Replacing Wakey: Forced Awakening Reaction Only usable by a tapped vampire. This reacting vampire can attempt to block the acting minion and play reaction cards as though untapped. If he or she fails to block the acting minion, he or she burns an additional blood. Alan Rabinowitz Common !!! Excellent work. I'd suggest aliasing all WakeWEve cards into the above - eliminating the WwEF abuses, by and large. ----- Replacement for Day Operation - going a few steps to reeling in the Etrius deck (still need to find a work around for that other "unblocakble" card - Horrific Countenance from DS). (Note that the card cost of Day Operation has been worked into the penalty for playing the card) Daring the Dawn Fortitude Action Modifier Vampires cannot block this action. This vampire takes 2 aggravated damage (not preventable) after the action is complete. * As above, but this acting vampire takes 1 aggravated damage. Pete Venters Rare -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | I don't suffer from insanity. http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | I enjoy every minute of it. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

On 29 Oct 1996, Philippe DUCHON wrote: > sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: > [ gives 2 examples of replacements: Forced Awakening for WwEF and Daring ] > [ the Dawn for Day Op ] > Now CL games are even more broken, since we have almost-duplicates of many > cards. Cool. Maybe I'll finally convince my friends to try NL... That wouldn't be the reason that CL games would be more broken. Depending on where the duplicates are, the duplicates themselves might either hurt CL games more or help them (if in an area without duplicates like Animalism). In any case, CL games _are_ more broken, but now NL games are too, and not because of duplicates, but because of a poorly done set. > Since I'm already discussing NL/CL games anyway... > I've been playing in 4CL games for the last 2 years, and would like to try > NL. At least one of the players in the group would be ready to try as well, > but he says we should "still restrict the abusive cards". I'm not sure what > to do here... With the Sabbat, I don't know _what_ you can do. After looking at the spoiler list I was disgusted. Now it's no longer a matter of NL/CL being more or less broken than the other. At this point, it doesn't matter too much, they all look pretty bad. Tomorrow, I plan on asking my group if we want to be Sabbat free. After looking at the list of cards, I don't know what else I can do. > Can someone send me/post examples of typical NL decks that are *not* too > focused and rather solid, and that a player with about 1 of every rare, about > 4-6 of every uncommon and lots of commons (the average distribution in my > group) can build, so we can try them out ? We need some sample decks to > convince everybody here that the format isn't broken in itself, as long as > all decks are made to deal with it. If you examine my Jyhad page (URL in .sig), a large collection of decks has built up. It might take some searching for NL decks. > If I remember right, one of the cards that led to 4CL in the group was Blood > Doll. One player built a deck with 8-10 BD and small vampires, and gained > more blood than his predator could make him lose. I don't know if he was > effective in ousting prey, but he did create a problem for his predator. Such a deck is likely to be weak in terms of his vampires. A robust rush deck should have offed him. Bleed might have a problem, but bleed is notoriously the worst at handle anti-bleed strategy. > I sincerely think giving examples of solid nonabusive NL decks can help > convince players to go from CL to NL... Easily done. See my page. [Reply-to:sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu] @ The Corrupter - Adrian Lee Sullivan @ GAT/CS/WS R+++* r(+)>++ # Gamer Coffee-Addict Scripter Author # P++ C(+++) USX+ N++ !w @#$ Comments ? sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu $#@ X++ b++(+++) tv(+)> @#$ <http://cslab.uwlax.edu/~sulli_al/jyhad> $#@ e+* PS++@ PE@ z*++?

sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: [ gives 2 examples of replacements: Forced Awakening for WwEF and Daring ] [ the Dawn for Day Op ] Now CL games are even more broken, since we have almost-duplicates of many cards. Cool. Maybe I'll finally convince my friends to try NL... Since I'm already discussing NL/CL games anyway... I've been playing in 4CL games for the last 2 years, and would like to try NL. At least one of the players in the group would be ready to try as well, but he says we should "still restrict the abusive cards". I'm not sure what to do here... Can someone send me/post examples of typical NL decks that are *not* too focused and rather solid, and that a player with about 1 of every rare, about 4-6 of every uncommon and lots of commons (the average distribution in my group) can build, so we can try them out ? We need some sample decks to convince everybody here that the format isn't broken in itself, as long as all decks are made to deal with it. If I remember right, one of the cards that led to 4CL in the group was Blood Doll. One player built a deck with 8-10 BD and small vampires, and gained more blood than his predator could make him lose. I don't know if he was effective in ousting prey, but he did create a problem for his predator. I sincerely think giving examples of solid nonabusive NL decks can help convince players to go from CL to NL... --- Philippe Duchon (duc...@labri.u-bordeaux.fr)

duc...@LaBRI.U-Bordeaux.FR (Philippe DUCHON) writes: >I've been playing in 4CL games for the last 2 years, and would like to try >NL. At least one of the players in the group would be ready to try as well, >but he says we should "still restrict the abusive cards". I'm not sure what >to do here... With DCI or Golden Tenets, there's really nothing the breaks the game except that Etrius deck. There are a number of cards that have a disproportionate effect on the game. My list would be Wake, Blood Doll, Thoughts Betrayed, and most of the cards that say "untap this vampire" (Cat's Guidance and Change of Target are OK). One really good thing to help the transistion is a good rush combat deck. (10% Bums Rush, 5% Haven Uncovered, 10% other Masters, 10% equipment, 65% relevant combat cards, generally smaller vampires from one clan). Good candidates are Gangrel and Brujah. Rush combat is the most hurt by CL, and thrashes most of the decks that appear abusive from a CL standpoint (wakey decks, Blood Doll decks, and Deflection decks), plus most CL Malk decks. >If I remember right, one of the cards that led to 4CL in the group was Blood >Doll. One player built a deck with 8-10 BD and small vampires, and gained >more blood than his predator could make him lose. I don't know if he was >effective in ousting prey, but he did create a problem for his predator. Blood Doll is a "semi-problem" card, but any good combat deck, rush or intercept, should be able to toast this. As soon as a vampire comes out, it's sent to torpor with no blood. Can't hunt there! Decks that deal aggravated damage (Tremere or Gangrel, for example) are particularly good for this kind of deck, as they often burn the little weenies. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)