Spirit Marionette / Jar the Soul

Spirit Marionette [BL] Cardtype: Action Discipline: Obeah/Dominate [dom] (D) Bleed at +1 bleed. [obe] (D) Bleed at +1 bleed, and tap a ready minion controlled by your prey (even if the target of the bleed is changed). [OBE] +1 stealth action. (D) Take control of any ready untapped minion until the end of the next action. That minion must bleed your prey unless he or she must hunt. If you tap that minion, say, with Jar the Soul, do you keep control of him until he can untap / bleed ? If you tap him and then use Force of Will, you then lose control of him, right ? -- Yours, Orpheus, Prince of Marseille http://no.exit.free.fr (onlive novel) http://cypheranima.free.fr (goth band) news://news.zoo-logique.org/VTES-francophone audio...@yahoogroups.com

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:12:16 +0100, Orpheus wrote: > Spirit Marionette > [BL] > Cardtype: Action > Discipline: Obeah/Dominate > [dom] (D) Bleed at +1 bleed. > [obe] (D) Bleed at +1 bleed, and tap a ready minion controlled by your > prey (even if the target of the bleed is changed). [OBE] +1 stealth > action. (D) Take control of any ready untapped minion until the end of > the next action. That minion must bleed your prey unless he or she must > hunt. > > If you tap that minion, say, with Jar the Soul, do you keep control of > him until he can untap / bleed ? You can't, because bleeding is a mandatory action so it *must* take place before Jaring any Soul. > If you tap him and then use Force of Will, you then lose control of him, > right ? Provided you find a way to tap him without taking any action, yes. Francois

> > Spirit Marionette > > [BL] > > Cardtype: Action > > Discipline: Obeah/Dominate > > [dom] (D) Bleed at +1 bleed. > > [obe] (D) Bleed at +1 bleed, and tap a ready minion controlled by your > > prey (even if the target of the bleed is changed). [OBE] +1 stealth > > action. (D) Take control of any ready untapped minion until the end of > > the next action. That minion must bleed your prey unless he or she must > > hunt. > > > > If you tap that minion, say, with Jar the Soul, do you keep control of > > him until he can untap / bleed ? > > You can't, because bleeding is a mandatory action so it *must* take place > before Jaring any Soul. Humm, seems to me that it has already been answered on this forum that you could bleed with other guys or take other actions B4 the Spirited guy could bleed.... Am I mistaken ?

Orpheus wrote: > > Spirit Marionette > [BL] > Cardtype: Action > Discipline: Obeah/Dominate > [dom] (D) Bleed at +1 bleed. > [obe] (D) Bleed at +1 bleed, and tap a ready minion controlled by your prey > (even if the target of the bleed is changed). > [OBE] +1 stealth action. (D) Take control of any ready untapped minion until > the end of the next action. That minion must bleed your prey unless he or > she must hunt. > > If you tap that minion, say, with Jar the Soul, do you keep control of him > until he can untap / bleed ? The target must be untapped (card text). Mandatory actions (like the bleed the target must then perform) must be taken before any non-mandatory ones (like Jar the Soul) can be attempted. > If you tap him and then use Force of Will, you then lose control of him, > right ? Again, very difficult to tap him, but you lose control of the target at the end of the next action (card text). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Orpheus wrote: > > You can't, because bleeding is a mandatory action so it *must* take place > > before Jaring any Soul. > > Humm, seems to me that it has already been answered on this forum that you > could bleed with other guys or take other actions B4 the Spirited guy could > bleed.... Am I mistaken ? Yes. See Google. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:31:14 +0100, Orpheus wrote: > Humm, seems to me that it has already been answered on this forum that > you could bleed with other guys or take other actions B4 the Spirited > guy could bleed.... Am I mistaken ? > You could come up with an other mandatory action to take place before the marionette bleeding. This would be pointless, though, as you lose control of your marionette anyway. See : http://groups.google.fr/groups?q=spirit+marionette+mandatory&hl=fr&selm=3C21261A.DCA8184B%40white-wolf.com&rnum=1 Francois

>> If you tap him and then use Force of Will, you then lose control of him, >> right ? > >Again, very difficult to tap him, but you lose control of the target at the >end of the next action (card text). For simplicity's sake, let's just say you use The Louvre or something. Halcyan 2

[ quoted text not captured ] Fine. Then you lose control of the target at the end of the next action. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:38:32 +0100, Halcyan 2 wrote: > For simplicity's sake, let's just say you use The Louvre or something. Or let's do it the hard, brave, manly way : Spirit Marionette under the Madness Network at the end of your predator's turn, and play Misdirection. Francois

Halcyan 2 wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Why not do it the cornercase way? You control Alexandra as well as the needed Salubri and correctly assumed that your prey would play Toreador. Now you can play master fortitude cards on your preys vampires, grab them with Spirit Marionette, tap them with Alexandras ability and Force of Will at inferior. Sten During

Francois Gombault <fgom...@I.dont.like.spam.activia.net> wrote in message news:<a65e1n$ut0$1...@s1.read.news.oleane.net>... [ quoted text not captured ] You call Malkavians manly? So lets see... Sensory Dep a vampire, then spirit marionette it into your control. Tap it with The Louvre (or other method outlined above). Then sit and control someone elses tapped minion and do what with it? Block alot? Could be an interesting variation to an intercept deck... course you could never oust your prey, barring bounce or amry of rats/anarchs... Interesting deck idea... ~SV

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:07:26 +0100, vermillian wrote: > You call Malkavians manly? *sigh* Now if you put it this way... > So lets see... Sensory Dep a vampire, then spirit marionette it into > your control. Tap it with The Louvre (or other method outlined above). > Then sit and control someone elses tapped minion and do what with it? > Block alot? Sure, it's only midly interesting. My first idea was much better, and did not involve Misdirection : Khobar Towers was the masterpiece of that Hard, Brave, Manly Combo. ;) > Could be an interesting variation to an intercept deck... course you > could never oust your prey, barring bounce or amry of rats/anarchs... > > Interesting deck idea... Interesting, sure. I'm pretty sure you could draw a lot of attention at any tournament with this. As for table wins... Well, you've proved you were manly, you don't need to win, really. Francois

"Francois Gombault" <fgom...@I.dont.like.spam.activia.net> wrote in message news:a65mrf$4qg$1...@s1.read.news.oleane.net... > On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:07:26 +0100, vermillian wrote: > > So lets see... Sensory Dep a vampire, then spirit marionette it into > > your control. Tap it with The Louvre (or other method outlined above). > > Then sit and control someone elses tapped minion and do what with it? > > Block alot? > > Sure, it's only midly interesting. My first idea was much better, and did > not involve Misdirection : Khobar Towers was the masterpiece of that Hard, > Brave, Manly Combo. ;) You know, in case anyone hadn't noticed already, you *can* get Khobar Towers usage with Spirit Marionette, if you use Madness Network. Your Malkavian (with Obeah) uses Spirit Marionette after your predator finishes with minion actions; as long as you're grabbing a non-Malkavian you'll keep it until your own minion phase. (If it were a Malk I think it'd have to bleed immediately, since it'd be allowed to act via Madness Network - LSJ?) During your untap, Khobar away! Yow. And you don't even need the Misdirection. Just a Clan Impersonated Salubri and the Madness Network. And a Follower of Set so you can get Khobar Towers. You know, this plan may be good enough to try for myself. (OK, funny enough to try for myself.) Josh cuts down trees eats his lunch

Joshua Duffin wrote: > Your Malkavian (with Obeah) uses Spirit Marionette after > your predator finishes with minion actions; as long as > you're grabbing a non-Malkavian you'll keep it until your > own minion phase. (If it were a Malk I think it'd have > to bleed immediately, since it'd be allowed to act via > Madness Network - LSJ?) No. Malks are not obligated to act via the Net, even if they have mandatory actions. A Malk with a mandatory action cannot perform any other action via the Net, however. [RTR 28-NOV-1994], [LSJ 18-JAN-2002] [ quoted text not captured ]

"Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<a65sk3$c0sui$1...@ID-121616.news.dfncis.de>... [ quoted text not captured ] Hells yeah! Hmm... A low cap FoS to prevent bleeds with excstacy and banner of neutrality, used to bring Khobor towers. Low capacity get him quick, and get the Khobor quick before he can get killed. Next influence out the cheapest OBE (blanche hill), CI to malk next turn, maddness network the turn after, and spirit marionette him. Burn to Khobor Towers, gain blood... Now what to do with all that blood... and how might I oust my prey? These are all things interestingly to consider... ~SV

vermil...@yahoo.com (vermillian) wrote in news:f987c6cd.02030...@posting.google.com: [ quoted text not captured ] Stealing all his vamps should make things kind of though for him... :-) > These are all things interestingly to consider... Well here's another interesting thing to consider: Blanche Hill can use her ability once each turn, so you can SM-FD-Hunt and stay untapped for 0 cost on each player's turn. Well, SM may not be the best option since you'll lose the stolen vampire when you hunt, but I'm sure you can use that combo for a Masika-like effect... At the very least, you can use the CI-Blanche with MN to hunt 5 times for each turn around the table, then minion tap her on your turn. :-) Flux

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:02:09 +0100, Joshua Duffin wrote: > You know, in case anyone hadn't noticed already, you *can* get Khobar > Towers usage with Spirit Marionette, if you use Madness Network. > > Your Malkavian (with Obeah) uses Spirit Marionette after your predator > finishes with minion actions; as long as you're grabbing a non-Malkavian > you'll keep it until your own minion phase. Exactly. =P I was accused of smoking grass when I first told about this on the French newsgroup. ;) > During your untap, Khobar away! Yow. And you don't even need the > Misdirection. Just a Clan Impersonated Salubri and the Madness Network. > And a Follower of Set so you can get Khobar Towers. You know, this > plan may be good enough to try for myself. (OK, funny enough to try for > myself.) If you want to get rid of the FoS/Khobar moving part, you can also try with Golconda and Antediluvian Awakening. But that, of course, would considerably decrease the manliness of the combo. You want to be bold, don't you ? :) Francois

In message <a6779a$jgr$1...@s1.read.news.oleane.net>, Francois Gombault <fgom...@I.dont.like.spam.activia.net> writes: >If you want to get rid of the FoS/Khobar moving part, you can also try >with Golconda and Antediluvian Awakening. >But that, of course, would considerably decrease the manliness of the >combo. You want to be bold, don't you ? :) Good Lord. Sleaze isn't about being manly, you know. -- James Coupe Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks, PGP 0x5D623D5D And the rich folks hate the poor folks. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 All of my folks hate all of your folks, 13D7E668C3695D623D5D It's American as apple pie.

"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:QLmApvih...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk... > In message <a6779a$jgr$1...@s1.read.news.oleane.net>, Francois Gombault > <fgom...@I.dont.like.spam.activia.net> writes: > >If you want to get rid of the FoS/Khobar moving part, you can also try > >with Golconda and Antediluvian Awakening. > >But that, of course, would considerably decrease the manliness of the > >combo. You want to be bold, don't you ? :) > > Good Lord. Sleaze isn't about being manly, you know. It's not? ;-) But seriously, the Golconda/Antediluvian thing isn't as good an effect, I don't think, because with Anted. you get much less benefit out of the steal/burn, and with Golconda you can only whack vamps of capacity 8+. (Still very cute, though. For additional non-manliness, play Heidelburg Castle and yank all the blood off your stolen vamp before you Khobar/Golconda/Antediluvian it.) Josh sleazy man

Flux <fl...@netc.pt> wrote in message news:<Xns91CA48825...@130.133.1.4>... [ quoted text not captured ] And there's another pool gaining strategy that has come from this little thing... Man... I really want to slap this deck together! :)

"Flux" <fl...@netc.pt> wrote in message news:Xns91CA48825...@130.133.1.4... > vermil...@yahoo.com (vermillian) wrote in > news:f987c6cd.02030...@posting.google.com: > > Well here's another interesting thing to consider: Blanche Hill can use > her ability once each turn, so you can SM-FD-Hunt and stay untapped for 0 > cost on each player's turn. Well, SM may not be the best option since > you'll lose the stolen vampire when you hunt, but I'm sure you can use > that combo for a Masika-like effect... > As long as she isn't full, you can hunt-SM-FD, to stay untapped for 0 cost per turn.

"Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in news:wRMh8.17688$Hf7....@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net: [ quoted text not captured ] Yes, but then you can't do anything with the stolen vamp, unless he's a Malkavian too... Flux

"Flux" <fl...@netc.pt> wrote in message news:Xns91CAD612C...@130.133.1.4... > "Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in > news:wRMh8.17688$Hf7....@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net: > > >> > > As long as she isn't full, you can hunt-SM-FD, to stay untapped for 0 > > cost per turn. > > > Yes, but then you can't do anything with the stolen vamp, unless he's a > Malkavian too... > > Well, you keep control of the vamp until the end of the next action, so you could do a few things. You could use that vampire for blocking, you could Rave with one of your other Malkavians. The next player might not take any actions for a number of reasons: you just stole his last minion, he wants the minion you stole to get wasted, you made some sort of deal with him, etc... On the other hand, you're right that the SM kind of ruins the nifty combo of hunt every turn for lots of blood, or hunting, acting and freak driving every turn for lots of nifty actions. If I could make such a deck, I would probably put in the possibility for both combos to work. You could probably make a very nifty Salubri/Malkav pool machine/interceptor deck, and could even use all of the Salubri, since you need CI in order to make it work anyway. Spirit Marionette would just become kind of a side-bar in that sort of deck... to the point where you might even skip the Settites and not use Khobar Towers. If you can empty the vamp with Heidelberg, that should probably be enough.