New Preview : Target Hand

Am I gonna be the first to announce them all ? lol. Target Hand Combat Aim [new combat type card]. Play when choosing a strike The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he or she gets -1 strength this action, and you may destry a weapon he or she has. A minion may play only one aim each strike. -- Orpheus ---------------- Top of Ban / Fix List : PTO, Champion, Memories of Mortality.

Oooh, new card type? *Hope rises on the 'cancel a grapple / S:CE' front for an Aim. :D

On 5 Wrz, 13:20, Shockwave <d_knowles...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Oooh, new card type? > > *Hope rises on the 'cancel a grapple / S:CE' front for an Aim. :D i hope so :) this card works well to counter "opportunity" magnum - which is nice - works best with first strike

On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 13:11:24 +0200, "Orpheus" <orphe...@free.fr> wrote: >Am I gonna be the first to announce them all ? lol. > >Target Hand >Combat >Aim [new combat type card]. Play when choosing a strike > >The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any >damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he >or she gets -1 strength this action, and you may destry a weapon he or she >has. A minion may play only one aim each strike. The thing I see in our meta, is that it has no real effect on S:CE or Fortitude (two fairly common concepts). And decks that revolve around that don't count their slaps back as anything but a bonus (Fort/Disarm not withstanding). Though it could boost an IG/Dead Hand deck significantly. Morgan Vening -But apparently I'm a "half empty" kinda guy.

>> Oooh, new card type? >> >> *Hope rises on the 'cancel a grapple / S:CE' front for an Aim. :D Something like (I'm making it up) : Target Foot Combat Aim. Play when choosing a strike The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, put this card on him or her ; a minion with this card cannot strike to end combat. Burn this card when the minion gains 1 blood or life. If this card is played with First Strike and the opposing minion doesn't play First Strike, he or she cannot dodge or strike to end combat. A minion may play only one aim each strike. A little circonvoluted, I know, but I couldn't find easier phrasing right now... ------ Orpheus -- Forget about it is like if you agree with someone, you know, like Raquel Welch is one great piece of ass, forget about it. But then, if you disagree, like A Lincoln is better than a Cadillac? Forget about it! you know? But then, it's also like if something's the greatest thing in the world, like mingia those peppers, forget about it. But it's also like saying Go to hell! too. Like, you know, like "Hey Paulie, you got a one inch pecker?" and Paulie says "Forget about it!" Sometimes it just means forget about it.

On 5 Wrz, 13:34, Morgan Vening <mor...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 13:11:24 +0200, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr> [ quoted text not captured ] it is good when you are blocking or you know that this hit will land

> Target Hand > Combat > Aim [new combat type card]. Play when choosing a strike > > The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any > damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he > or she gets -1 strength this action, and you may destry a weapon he or she > has. A minion may play only one aim each strike. Seriously, who is going to put these into a deck? Fairly average. Reduce a minions str by 1 and destroy a weapon. I could see much better uses for the slots that this card would take up in a deck. Hopefully there are better aim cards, or this card type will end up rarely seen. --> J grail_pbem "at" hotmail.com

On 5 Sep, 12:36, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr> wrote: > >> Oooh, new card type? > > >> *Hope rises on the 'cancel a grapple / S:CE' front for an Aim. :D > > Something like (I'm making it up) : <snip> Bit too long for me Orpheus, I'd go for.... Fatal Hesitation Combat Aim. Play when choosing a strike The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. Opposing Minion cannot play 'Combat Ends' as a Strike. They can cancel it, but either way against a dedicated CE deck you'll end up burning through their CE a bit faster.

[ quoted text not captured ] I think you're not looking at those cards with the right angle. The Aim cards add a litlte spice and more variety to combat. That's all. It probably won't make combat much more terrifying, or more viable as a winning strategy, but it might make it funnier to oppose two combat decks one against the other. And it won't cluster a combat deck too much either. This one could even help some Pot fighters without For to resist their opponents and even use Disarm more easily. Not game-breaking, but nice and colourful. If you're looking for anything else you might be disappointed, and rightfully so. [ quoted text not captured ]

>> >> *Hope rises on the 'cancel a grapple / S:CE' front for an Aim. :D >> >> Something like (I'm making it up) : > <snip> > > Bit too long for me Orpheus, I get that mate. > I'd go for.... > > Fatal Hesitation The name isn't right, you must choose a body part. > Combat > Aim. Play when choosing a strike > > The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. > Opposing Minion cannot play 'Combat Ends' as a Strike. Works of course, but maybe it's too powerful, which is why I'd like it to work that way only if in first strike. > They can cancel it, but either way against a dedicated CE deck you'll > end up burning through their CE a bit faster. Yes, it would have that effect. But it would allow easy anti-S:CE to minions without Pot, CEL or AUS, and would definitely wallpaperize Thought Betrayed. I don't think it would be good for the game, I'd rather see one day a new Grapple under Thanatosis and / or Quietus. [ quoted text not captured ]

> I think you're not looking at those cards with the right angle. I think I am. > The Aim cards add a litlte spice and more variety to combat. That's all. Sure, but you could make any card to add variety, but if it's not as good as pre-existing cards it won't be used and thus no variety enhancing will happen. > And it won't cluster a combat deck too much either. This one could even help > some Pot fighters without For to resist their opponents and even use Disarm > more easily. maybe only for mono-potence weenies, but still Torn Signpost or StrikeX are still better uses of your limited card slots. > Not game-breaking, but nice and colourful. If you're looking for anything > else you might be disappointed, and rightfully so. It's cornercase, really only useful against weapon decks, but how often do you see weapons? [ quoted text not captured ]

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 04:38:02 -0700, AcheronNi...@gmail.com wrote: >> >Target Hand >> >Combat >> >Aim [new combat type card]. Play when choosing a strike >> >> >The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any >> >damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he >> >or she gets -1 strength this action, and you may destry a weapon he or she >> >has. A minion may play only one aim each strike. >> >> The thing I see in our meta, is that it has no real effect on S:CE or >> Fortitude (two fairly common concepts). And decks that revolve around >> that don't count their slaps back as anything but a bonus (Fort/Disarm >> not withstanding). Though it could boost an IG/Dead Hand deck >> significantly. >> >> Morgan Vening >> -But apparently I'm a "half empty" kinda guy. > >it is good when you are blocking or you know that this hit will land Only if they're playing with large numbers of additional strikes or presses, or you're playing with First Strike or presses. Because unless I'm reading it wrong, on the initial round of combat, the -1 strength doesn't get applied until AFTER the current strikes are resolved. So, the list of situations so far, where it is good to play. - when blocking - when not seeing lots of S:CE you can't get around anyway - when you are playing First Strike. - when they are playing additional strikes - when either is playing presses. I agree with J. I can't see this being worth the deck space. Though I (we?) could be wrong. Morgan Vening

[ quoted text not captured ] i dont want grapple card - i want equal chances - my BBT WWS against their punch for 1 dont forget that aim can cost let's say 1 blood :)

They could have some impact if there are some easy way to cycle them back into the deck (vampires card text, library-cards in play that effect aim-cards). A 10 card package that offsets your weaknesses and/or boosts your strenghts even further in combat. I hope there are zero defensive aim-cards.

> It's cornercase, really only useful against weapon decks, but how > often do you see weapons? Often.

> I hope there are zero defensive aim-cards. Aim : Bollocks. Your opponent can't strike you this turn, and might just whimper with a very high-pitched voice.

> >> Morgan Vening > >> -But apparently I'm a "half empty" kinda guy. > > >it is good when you are blocking or you know that this hit will land > > Only if they're playing with large numbers of additional strikes or > presses, or you're playing with First Strike or presses. Because > unless I'm reading it wrong, on the initial round of combat, the -1 > strength doesn't get applied until AFTER the current strikes are > resolved. > > So, the list of situations so far, where it is good to play. - when your opponent has equipment you're sick of looking at - when you have Smudge the Ignored and Trap > I agree with J. I can't see this being worth the deck space. Though I > (we?) could be wrong. Really? See, I personally have been asking for more cards that can get equipment off the table. And if this is a card which can fit into almost any deck and is capable of burning a .44 Magnum or an Ivory Bow, well, I couldn't be happier -- unless it burned any equipment, instead of just weapons. Also note that any weenie + Trap + Target Hand + unarmed opponent = Awesome. -- Brian

[ quoted text not captured ] Crap. DOM weenie combat. Crap. Thoughts + Trap + Maybe 2-3 Aim cards. Dead big vamp from 4 cap Weenie DOM monster. Crap.

[ quoted text not captured ] well if someone dont play combat cards he deserve to die :P

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 05:15:21 -0700, islando...@aol.com wrote: >> >> Morgan Vening >> >> -But apparently I'm a "half empty" kinda guy. >> >> >it is good when you are blocking or you know that this hit will land >> >> Only if they're playing with large numbers of additional strikes or >> presses, or you're playing with First Strike or presses. Because >> unless I'm reading it wrong, on the initial round of combat, the -1 >> strength doesn't get applied until AFTER the current strikes are >> resolved. >> >> So, the list of situations so far, where it is good to play. > > - when your opponent has equipment you're sick of looking at As you explain further, it's weapon, not equipment. > - when you have Smudge the Ignored and Trap Unless they have S:CE or can do more than 1 damage in any of those rounds (including the first). >> I agree with J. I can't see this being worth the deck space. Though I >> (we?) could be wrong. > >Really? See, I personally have been asking for more cards that can >get equipment off the table. And if this is a card which can fit into >almost any deck and is capable of burning a .44 Magnum or an Ivory >Bow, well, I couldn't be happier -- unless it burned any equipment, >instead of just weapons. Assuming you are capable of still hurting them. Most decks I see with guns can keep it at long. So then you're still needing a ranged strike. Which essentially makes this card a slow Canine Horde. >Also note that any weenie + Trap + Target Hand + unarmed opponent = >Awesome. Unarmed and defenceless. In which case wouldn't another card be better situated? I like WHAT it does. Just not HOW it does it. Morgan Vening

On 5 Wrz, 14:27, Morgan Vening <mor...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] this card have very good synergy with any strikes which give press such as:thrown sewer lid, starvation of marena. it IS different CH which doesn't require animalism - it is meta card :)

Why is everyone saying that this card will never be played? Does no one see that the Trap combos (Apparition, skin adder, song of serenity, superior mettle) is now made disciplineless? Its pretty cool to me. They need to discard two combat cards to cancel it (can you play another if it is cancelled?), which unless you are playing a combat deck its not that common. Plus you can destroy a pesky gun. This type of deck can now be played with almost anyone now. I was about to remake my skin of adder / trap deck. But a combat imbued trap with target hand deck looks good too. (Using react with conviction to stop those majesties).

On 5 sep, 15:16, "adam.hu...@gmail.com" <adam.hu...@gmail.com> wrote: > Why is everyone saying that this card will never be played? > > Does no one see that the Trap combos (Apparition, skin adder, song of > serenity, superior mettle) is now made disciplineless? Its pretty cool > to me. More weenie combat. Look at me not jumping for joy. They need to discard two combat cards to cancel it (can you > play another if it is cancelled?), which unless you are playing a > combat deck its not that common. Plus you can destroy a pesky gun. > This type of deck can now be played with almost anyone now. Yes. With 2 caps most likely. woot > > I was about to remake my skin of adder / trap deck. But a combat > imbued trap with target hand deck looks good too. (Using react with > conviction to stop those majesties). yeah. great.... I hope the rule LSJ mentioned is something about when you can play aim cards....

I'd rather see one day a new > Grapple under Thanatosis and / or Quietus. > > -- > Orpheus Great idea, but it doesn't necessarily need to be a grapple. It could be a Frenzy, or even a typeless combat card like: Blood Decays [qui] Only usable before range is determined. This round, the opposing minion must burn two blood to strike to end combat. [thn] As [qui], but for the remainder of this combat. [THN] Only usable before range is determined. Burn a Mortal or Animal retainer on the opposing minion, or burn a blood to burn the opposing Mortal or Animal ally.

Jeroen wrote: > I hope the rule LSJ mentioned is something about when you can play aim > cards.... "LSJ mentioned"?

[ quoted text not captured ] You didn't? I must have misremembered then. Someone mentioned a new rule, i thought it was you. Or was it in the magazine thread? Sorry :-)

Morgan Vening wrote: > > I agree with J. I can't see this being worth the deck space. Though I > (we?) could be wrong. Bah, this card has awesome entertainment potential. I throw a Well Aimed Car... AT YOUR HAND!!! I Collapse the Arches... ON YOUR HAND!!! I strike with inferior Decapitate... ON YOUR HAND!!! Plus with superior Fractured Armament you could destroy _two_ weapons! Ahem, I'll shut up now. Appolonius. I Garrote... YOUR HAND!!!

On 5 Sep, 13:39, J <grai...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Target Hand > > Combat > > Aim [new combat type card]. Play when choosing a strike > > > The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any > > damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he > > or she gets -1 strength this action, and you may destry a weapon he or she > > has. A minion may play only one aim each strike. > > Seriously, who is going to put these into a deck? Fairly average. > Reduce a minions str by 1 and destroy a weapon. I could see much > better uses for the slots that this card would take up in a deck. I'd say it has very nice synergy with earthshock, personally. Especially if you see a lot of cel-gun in your meta.

How does first strike work with the destroying weapon part?

On Sep 5, 9:48 am, "adam.hu...@gmail.com" <adam.hu...@gmail.com> wrote: > How does first strike work with the destroying weapon part? If you destroy the weapon with first strike, it is not available when the strike declared with it resolves, thus no strike is resolved. Same sort of timing/situation as "I declared a strike with my weapon and then my opponent played Immortal Grapple" -John Flournoy

On Sep 5, 6:11 am, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr> wrote: > Am I gonna be the first to announce them all ? lol. > > Target Hand > Combat > Aim [new combat type card]. Play when choosing a strike > > The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any > damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he > or she gets -1 strength this action, and you may destry a weapon he or she > has. A minion may play only one aim each strike. I see this as being really good for Muddles, Renegade Garou, Shamblers, War Ghoul and Ossian. Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp

Wait clarification please... You play this as you anounce your strike. It only comes into effect if damage is successful. Normal damage is done simulateously. Does that mean the -1 strength does not affect the initial strike of the opposing minion?

> I strike with inferior Decapitate... ON YOUR HAND!!! Okay, I laughed. Especially if it was an Arbt Kindred. > Plus with superior Fractured Armament you could destroy _two_ weapons! Yeah, that'll teach all those people using Dual Berettas! Oh wait! :D

On Sep 5, 11:16 am, "adam.hu...@gmail.com" <adam.hu...@gmail.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Correct. witness1

[ quoted text not captured ] oooh... agg poke still dangerous then. If you have first strike I'm guessing the -1 strength does happen first. How about if you do a steal blood/life strike?

[ quoted text not captured ] I aim my Catatonic Fear at your hand. Psyche! witness1

On Sep 5, 10:16 am, "adam.hu...@gmail.com" <adam.hu...@gmail.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Correct, unless the strike was made with first strike. See Withering. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Auugh, we all posted at the same time. Reiterate my next question. How about stealing blood/life strike? Does the -1 str affter the normal initial strike then?

On Sep 5, 11:29 am, "adam.hu...@gmail.com" <adam.hu...@gmail.com> wrote: > How about stealing blood/life strike? Does the -1 str affter the > normal initial strike then? No. Card text is clear that Target: Hand has zero effect unless a damage dealing strike is performed. "If any damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, " Stealing life/blood will not trigger the effect of the Target card.

On Sep 5, 9:22 am, Jeroen <joen_...@hotmail.com> wrote: > I hope the rule LSJ mentioned is something about when you can play aim > cards.... I don't know about any rule, but card text is clear. "A minion may play only one aim each strike." If the first aim is cancelled, another cannot be played.

On Sep 5, 9:16 am, "adam.hu...@gmail.com" <adam.hu...@gmail.com> wrote: > (can you play another if it is cancelled?) No. Card text is clear. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Okay, I had to look up the whole Direct-Intervention-Cancelling discussion to understand correctly. Thanks.

On Sep 5, 7:39 am, J <grai...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Target Hand > > Combat > > Aim [new combat type card]. Play when choosing a strike > > > The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any > > damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he > > or she gets -1 strength this action, and you may destry a weapon he or she > > has. A minion may play only one aim each strike. > > Seriously, who is going to put these into a deck? Fairly average. > Reduce a minions str by 1 and destroy a weapon. I could see much > better uses for the slots that this card would take up in a deck. > > Hopefully there are better aim cards, or this card type will end up > rarely seen. > > --> J > grail_pbem "at" hotmail.com Destroy a weapon without worrying about range, and without a discipline? The alone makes it worth looking into ...

[ quoted text not captured ] > discipline? The alone makes it worth looking into ...- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - "Destroy a weapon without worrying about range, " Well you still have to successfully do strike damage (enviromental no good) which is dependent on range...

>> Does that mean the -1 strength does not affect the initial strike of >> the opposing minion? > > Correct, unless the strike was made with first strike. See Withering. BTW, if I make a Withering strike with First Strike, can the opposing minion still use a S:CE requiring a discipline or can't he ? I need to B sure... -------- Orpheus

[ quoted text not captured ] As far as I understand it the opposing minion can, S:CE goes off before "third" strike. Also, First strike only means your strike resolves first, It (as far as I know) does not limit your opponents strike options in any way (except in the case of things like CH vs guns) Sutekh_23

On Sep 5, 11:58 am, "adam.hu...@gmail.com" <adam.hu...@gmail.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] > good) which is dependent on range...- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - yeah that's OK, what I'm trying to say that by simply being disciplineless weapon destruction, which is also not range dependant, that you should expect some restrictions. And even if the gaming in your area isn't all weapons then you've still got the -1 strength, so yeah overall it seems quite a resonable card.

On Sep 5, 6:56 am, J <grai...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > I think you're not looking at those cards with the right angle. > > I think I am. > > > The Aim cards add a litlte spice and more variety to combat. That's all. > > Sure, but you could make any card to add variety, but if it's not as > good as pre-existing cards it won't be used and thus no variety > enhancing will happen. > > > And it won't cluster a combat deck too much either. This one could even help > > some Pot fighters without For to resist their opponents and even use Disarm > > more easily. > > maybe only for mono-potence weenies, but still Torn Signpost or > StrikeX are still better uses of your limited card slots. > > > Not game-breaking, but nice and colourful. If you're looking for anything > > else you might be disappointed, and rightfully so. > > It's cornercase, really only useful against weapon decks, but how > often do you see weapons? When I am playing guns, I really don't like it when my opponent has a gun. Especially when playing with defensive guns like Deer Rifle or Sniper Rifle. I really, really don't like seeing my opponent with an Ivory Bow. Now I can shoot it out of your hand. 'Play when choosing a strike' is the same window I can play Wolf Claws after seeing what my opponent plays, correct? Or do I have to choose my strike and then immediately play an Aim card before my opponent chooses their strike? Later, ~Rehlow

Rehlow wrote: > 'Play when choosing a strike' is the same window I can play Wolf Claws > after seeing what my opponent plays, correct? Or do I have to choose > my strike and then immediately play an Aim card before my opponent > chooses their strike? The latter. Play when choosing your strike.

In article <1188992361.1...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, J <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Seriously, who is going to put these into a deck? Fairly average. > Reduce a minions str by 1 and destroy a weapon. I think the main use of this card is as a disciplineless weapon destroyer. Which is pretty good. Except that it is incredibly easy to cancel (discard 2 cards, which is often a huge benefit in and of itself). But that being said, I can certainly see some decks including them to: A) Try and kill weapons first and foremost in a high weapon environment. B) Sometimes save you from additional strikes as a handy cycle ability. Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html "Find hungry samurai." -The Old Man

In article <1188993410.2...@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, J <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote: > It's cornercase, really only useful against weapon decks, but how > often do you see weapons? Interesting--IME, weapons show up *a lot*. Usually guns, but as guns are good for both offensive combat (weeine CEL, etc.) and defensive combat (weenie AUS, any kind of CEL blocky deck, Sniper Rifles). The Imbued also use weapons a often (as they can equip with them without an action and aren't overly concerned about the Improvised Flame Thrower exploding...) I see guns in both competitive and casual play all the time. I see melee weapons a lot less often, but guns show up enough to justify the inclusion of anti-weapon tech in pretty much any deck worthwhile. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <pdb6-DC0BE9.1...@news-server.stny.rr.com>, I <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote: > I think the main use of this card is as a disciplineless weapon > destroyer. Which is pretty good. Except that it is incredibly easy to > cancel (discard 2 cards, which is often a huge benefit in and of > itself). Heh. On closer examination, it is discard two *combat* cards to cancel Target Hand. Which is much less easy than "discard 2 cards", but still possible. But it is very common to run into decks that pack guns and no other actual combat cards. So sidelining a few of these into, like, a Thrown Gate deck (to throw a Gate at the hand of the guy with the Magnum...) will be pure gold, I'd suspect. [ quoted text not captured ]

Peter D Bakija wrote: > In article <pdb6-DC0BE9.1...@news-server.stny.rr.com>, > I <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote: > >> I think the main use of this card is as a disciplineless weapon >> destroyer. Which is pretty good. Except that it is incredibly easy to >> cancel (discard 2 cards, which is often a huge benefit in and of >> itself). > > Heh. On closer examination, it is discard two *combat* cards to cancel > Target Hand. Which is much less easy than "discard 2 cards", but still > possible. But it is very common to run into decks that pack guns and no > other actual combat cards. So sidelining a few of these into, like, a > Thrown Gate deck (to throw a Gate at the hand of the guy with the > Magnum...) will be pure gold, I'd suspect. My first thought was that it seems to hose Imbued Darby Dance decks right out of the gate. When is the last time you saw an Imbued deck with more than say 4 combat cards in 60? Um, never? There goes the Ivory bow, one of the key cards in many Imbued decks. best - chris -- Super Fun Cards http://stores.ebay.com/superfuncards/ auct...@superfuncards.com

[ quoted text not captured ] Well, since stealing blood isn't doing damage, my guess is that you don't get any benefit from Target Hand. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] You need to be sure? Are you building a deck with this card *right now*, for a tournament this weekend? ;-) [ quoted text not captured ]

> The Imbued also use weapons a often (as they can equip with them without an action > and aren't overly concerned about the Improvised Flame Thrower > exploding...) Grrrrr. Humans who don't mind being set on fire. >_< (Sorry, didn't want to bring it up again....) I agree, the card(s) will only suit certain groups. So let's hope they're varied enough to encourage all of them in cross-group (i.e competitive) play. :)

> I see guns in both competitive and casual play all the time. I see melee > weapons a lot less often, but guns show up enough to justify the > inclusion of anti-weapon tech in pretty much any deck worthwhile. Sure, if you see guns a lot, then it's ok. But if you see them only semi-regularly or less, it's not worth it IMO. I'm the only player who regularly plays with weapons in my social group, and I might see maybe 5% of tournament decks with guns in them. Plus if I'm taking combat to a tournie, I usually figure that I'll be able to out muscle opportunistic guns anyway which is where most guns at a tournie come from, as there are very few cel/gun decks that I see at tournies, the combat is more likely to be potence/animalism/thaumaturgy. YMMV, but generally I still feel that this card isn't worth slotting in at the expense of other cards. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Sep 5, 7:20 pm, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote: > > BTW, if I make a Withering strike with First Strike, can the opposing minion > > still use a S:CE requiring a discipline or can't he ? I need to B sure... If I'm judge, I rule that strikes are chosen simultaneously, so any strike that required a discipline had already been played before the Withering resolves. Once resolved, the opposing minion could not play any cards that required disciplines (i.e. Disarm). Withering Type: Combat Requires: Thanatosis/Animalism [ani] Strike: 1R damage. [thn] Strike: make a hand strike. Place this card on the opposing minion. The minion with this card has -1 strength. Burn this card during his or her controller's next discard phase. [THN] As [thn] above, and the minion with this card cannot play cards that require any Disciplines. The key word here being "play". A Majesty, as an example, would already have been played before the Withering restricts the minion from playing cards that require disciplines. If the ruling is otherwise, well then it just doesn't make good sense. The inferior, however, would give the opposing minion -1 str at resolution, which, with first strike, would happen before the opposing minion's resolution, meaning the -1 str would already be applied.

It seems like a fantastic way to destoy Imbued Agg damage Weapon decks. You know the ones that have Moise and the Ivory Bow, Segnire (spelling???) Dagger, Crusader Sword, etc and tool up the minions with them. They rarely pack combat cards since hteir conviction and powers work nicely for them and unless oyu're packing a disciplin to steal/destroy equipment then they keep blocking and sending you to torpor. This card may cause you to go to Torpor a few times but at least it's not every time. Since there's only so many times they can get these weapons back.

>> BTW, if I make a Withering strike with First Strike, can the opposing >> minion still use a S:CE requiring a discipline or can't he ? I need to B >> sure... >> -------- >> Orpheus > > You need to be sure? Are you building a deck with this card *right now*, > for a tournament this weekend? > > ;-) > > best - > > chris Not right now for this week-end, as a matter of facts I won't build much before the French Championship (can't even play correctly anymore) but after that if the idea worked I'd love to try it out !! Doesn't look like it does, though... :-( Orpheus

In message <46de98e5$0$3298$426a...@news.free.fr>, Orpheus <orphe...@free.fr> writes: >> I'd go for.... >> >> Fatal Hesitation > >The name isn't right, you must choose a body part. That doesn't seem necessary. Assuming there aren't any in LotN, I could certainly imagine Aim cards in future expansions that allowed for you doing unusual, non-body part things. For example, a feint with a melee weapon or a distracting shot with a ranged/gun strike. A feint might give you an additional strike with the weapon with +2 strength, a distracting shot might let you change range or force a second round of combat, or something. Seems perfectly reasonably within the scope of an Aim card. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

>>> I'd go for.... >>> >>> Fatal Hesitation >> >>The name isn't right, you must choose a body part. > > That doesn't seem necessary. > > Assuming there aren't any in LotN, I could certainly imagine Aim cards > in future expansions that allowed for you doing unusual, non-body part > things. Well then, they'd have to get some other name. Aim means exactly that : choose a body part, or at least something a character has on him / is holding (but Hand takes care of that I guess). Any other use wouldn't deserve the "Aim" name. > For example, a feint with a melee weapon or a distracting shot > with a ranged/gun strike. A feint might give you an additional strike > with the weapon with +2 strength, a distracting shot might let you > change range or force a second round of combat, or something. Seems > perfectly reasonably within the scope of an Aim card. No. It seems perfectly reasonable for a Feint card. Not for an Aim card. ------ Orpheus ---------------- Top of Ban / Fix List : PTO, Champion, Memories of Mortality.

[ quoted text not captured ] I aim at your vehicles wheels, at your sanctuary's electrical supply box, at your storage depot's gas main... Seems perfectly reasonable... :)

Shockwave <d_know...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1189034754.5...@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com: >> The Imbued also use weapons a often (as they can equip with them >> without an action and aren't overly concerned about the Improvised >> Flame Thrower exploding...) > > Grrrrr. Humans who don't mind being set on fire. >_< > (Sorry, didn't want to bring it up again....) > Heh. I guess its tougher to remember "stop, drop, and roll" when you're under the influence of Rotschrek :-) DaveZ Atom Weaver

On Sep 5, 6:28 pm, J <grai...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > I see guns in both competitive and casual play all the time. I see melee > > weapons a lot less often, but guns show up enough to justify the > > inclusion of anti-weapon tech in pretty much any deck worthwhile. > > Sure, if you see guns a lot, then it's ok. But if you see them only > semi-regularly or less, it's not worth it IMO. I'm the only player > who regularly plays with weapons in my social group, and I might see > maybe 5% of tournament decks with guns in them. Plus if I'm taking > combat to a tournie, I usually figure that I'll be able to out muscle > opportunistic guns anyway which is where most guns at a tournie come > from, as there are very few cel/gun decks that I see at tournies, the > combat is more likely to be potence/animalism/thaumaturgy. > Those disciplines already have pretty good anti-weapons available to them. With potence, if you can catch them at close, Immortal Grapple, then pound them to torpor while they can't use their weapon. Animalism has Drawing Out the Beast, Terror Frenzy and Caine Hordes to deal with weapons. Thaumaturgy can largely ignore non-celerity guns by stealing as much blood lost to damage with Theft of Vitae. Now that any combat has an anti-weapon card, maybe those decks will feel safer at a tourney. > YMMV, but generally I still feel that this card isn't worth slotting > in at the expense of other cards. > Time will tell, but I am going to give it a try. Later, ~Rehlow

> Time will tell, but I am going to give it a try. > > Later, > ~Rehlow Besides, there needs to be a few rubbish cards. Otherwise, what will they fit all the single boosters we occasionally buy with? *Grin*

> I aim at your vehicles wheels, at your sanctuary's electrical supply > box, at your storage depot's gas main... > Seems perfectly reasonable... :) Variants : Aim : Your Momma. Aim : Your Goldfish Aim : Rollex watch Aim : Nuclear Plant Aim : LSJ's Portable Computer Aim : White Wolf's advertising department's head. Wait, who ? -------- Orpheus

> Those disciplines already have pretty good anti-weapons available to > them. With potence, if you can catch them at close, Immortal Grapple, > then pound them to torpor while they can't use their weapon. And if you can destroy the gun on the one occasion where you succeed at doing that, isn't it much better ? I think that Beast or Theo wouldn't mind too much if their opponent lost his strength even if he doesn't get disarmed right away, and the card is more polyvalent thanks to its use against weapons. >> YMMV, but generally I still feel that this card isn't worth slotting >> in at the expense of other cards. Could be. > Time will tell, but I am going to give it a try. Might work. -------- Orpheus, wait and see.

In message <46dfd5ab$0$874$426a...@news.free.fr>, Orpheus <orphe...@free.fr> writes: >Well then, they'd have to get some other name. Aim means exactly that : >choose a body part, or at least something a character has on him / is >holding (but Hand takes care of that I guess). Any other use wouldn't >deserve the "Aim" name. Aim means to target or direct something in a particular direction, or towards a particular target. It doesn't have any inherent meaning that requires body-parts. There's nothing stopping me aiming my gun at the wall behind you, for example, or shooting at the vehicle you're on, the chandelier above you, the tyre on your car, the apple resting on your head, or whatever. Many examples of such targeting can be found in action movies. Nothing about the word "Aim" necessitates any body parts being targeted. [ quoted text not captured ]

first, this: > It's cornercase, really only useful against weapon decks, but how > often do you see weapons? agree with peter. you see them plenty. twda's recent entries are mostly confined to ivory bows, crusader swords, etc used by imbued. another strong archetype is still celerity/guns. this makes both of these less effective, althoughcel/guns usually carries enough combat to toss it to stop the aim. it does give us disciplineless trap combos, most useful for weens & allies. won't surprise me if imbued can also find a way to (ab-) use this card as well. and then, on to "aim": though it doesn't necessitate a particular body part, it is a combat card term (afawk) so aiming your combat could easily be construed as picking a body area. i began to wonder if Disarm and Decapitate might both be considered "aim" cards now; they could be included with new text in the Giov starter. unlikely as this may seem, far less likely could be Backstab, Coagulate Blood, Fast Hands, and Pulled Fangs. Disarm and Pulled Fangs would be good in this case, to prevent Target Hand/combo with either. however, seems uber-unlikely b/c of their timing. john spore mage "The blood of these whores is killing me!" - Andy Warhol's Dracula

> agree with peter. you see them plenty. twda's recent entries are > mostly confined to ivory bows, crusader swords, etc used by imbued. > another strong archetype is still celerity/guns. Well I refute your claim that CEL/guns is a strong archtype. It is fun, but not strong. [ quoted text not captured ]

> Target Hand > Combat > Aim [new combat type card]. Play when choosing a strike > > The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any > damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he > or she gets -1 strength this action, and you may destry a weapon he or she > has. A minion may play only one aim each strike. How would this interact with Rowan Ring/Wooden Stake? I'd assume that Minion A declares strike with Aim, Minion B declares strike with Rowan Ring/Stake. Minion A goes to torpor but the Ring/ Stake is burned? Is this correct? [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <1189144831....@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, SPORE <spore...@hotmail.com> writes: >and then, on to "aim": >though it doesn't necessitate a particular body part, it is a combat >card term (afawk) so aiming your combat could easily be construed as >picking a body area. Why would it be so difficult for me to aim my gun at a conveniently located chandelier? > i began to wonder if Disarm and Decapitate might >both be considered "aim" cards now; they could be included with new >text in the Giov starter. Seems unlikely, if we follow the timing template for Target Hands that they're played when choosing the strike. Disarm is played a lot later, and Decapitate either is the strike or comes later. Also, Disarm doesn't really apply to any one strike. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] For the stake, assuming the stake strike inflicts sufficient damage... If A wants to destroy the weapon instead of receiving the stake, A can do so, sure. For the Rowan Ring.... Aim doesn't do anything at all, except offer B the option to discard two combat cards, since the Rowan Ring strike doesn't do any damage.

>> agree with peter. you see them plenty. twda's recent entries are >> mostly confined to ivory bows, crusader swords, etc used by imbued. >> another strong archetype is still celerity/guns. > > Well I refute your claim that CEL/guns is a strong archtype. It is > fun, but not strong. Refute all you want. Cel Guns is the one combat archetype that has been making final tables for years, more so than weenie Pot or Tariq or Enkidu, and comparable to Beast / Theo decks in its regularity. -- [ quoted text not captured ]

>> How would this interact with Rowan Ring/Wooden Stake? >> >> I'd assume that Minion A declares strike with Aim, Minion B declares >> strike with Rowan Ring/Stake. Minion A goes to torpor but the Ring/ >> Stake is burned? >> Is this correct? > > For the stake, assuming the stake strike inflicts sufficient damage... > > If A wants to destroy the weapon instead of receiving the stake, A can do > so, sure. > > For the Rowan Ring.... > > Aim doesn't do anything at all, except offer B the option to discard two > combat cards, since the Rowan Ring strike doesn't do any damage. I don't see why, if it's A who strikes : if he inflicts 1 damage he can still destroy the ring while going to torpor, can't he ? ------- Orpheus

[ quoted text not captured ] Ah, right. Read the question wrong. So, yeah, the aim "burn weapon" effect and the transfer have the same window, so the acting Methuselah orders them.

[ quoted text not captured ] > cards, since the Rowan Ring strike doesn't do any damage.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - "> Aim doesn't do anything at all, except offer B the option to discard two combat > cards, since the Rowan Ring strike doesn't do any damage.- " Mass Reality?

adam....@gmail.com wrote: > Mass Reality? Doesn't affect Rowan Ring, if that was the question you meant to ask.

In article <1189147965.0...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, J <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Well I refute your claim that CEL/guns is a strong archtype. It is > fun, but not strong. I dunno--in blind competition, CEL/gun weenies isn't that out of the realm of useful--it has weenies, it has a lot of actions, it is good at fighting, it can deal with S:CE (Psyche!). It isn't going to be the best deck ever, no, but as combat decks go, they are still pretty good. Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html "Find hungry samurai." -The Old Man