rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Several ruling/card questions

7 messages from 6 participants · 19 February 1996 – 24 February 1996
original thread on Google Groups

Jarrod P. Stenberg

While I have your attention, what's the likelihood of seeing a few allies that could use various discipline cards? I can think of a few that would make sense and could make the game interesting: A mage capable of using basic level Thaumaturgy or Necromancy; a ghoul who could use Potence or Fortitude cards... I've been saving up my questions. Here goes: 1, Can a vampire voluntarily remain in torpor despite having sufficient blood to rescue themself? The particular use I was thinking of was to gain extra blood from the Faithful Servant. 2, RE: Movement of Slow Body, Is "untapping" the action which may be blocked? or does the +2 stealth and possibility of being blocked apply to the now untapped vampire attempting to leave torpor--I can't think of any other action a vampire in torpor would take, aside from leaving. 3, RE: RPG Launcher and Disguised Weapon, can RPGL ("only usable after the first round of combat") be brought into play before range is chosen during the SECOND OR LATER rounds of combat with DW ("only usable before range is chosen") and put to use immediately? 4, RE: RPG Launcher and Strike: Steal Weapon, if RPGL is stolen in the first round, can the new owner use it the second round? Essentially, is the limitation literally that it be "after the first round of combat" or must it be in possession of a minion for a round before use? 5, RE: Rutor's Hand and Merrill Molitor, can Molitor's special ability prevent the aggravated damage from Rutor's Hand? If yes, at superior level Thaumaturgy only or at both levels? 6, RE: Bastard Sword (V:TES version) & Blood Rage, if the V:TES Bastard Sword provides +1 hand damage, is this considered striking with a weapon (thus nullified by Blood Rage) or is this an improved hand strike? 7, Similar to #6 above, are Thrown Gate and Thrown Sewer Lid considered one-use weapons or actions that just happen to cause damage? Would Blood Rage nullify these? 8, What happens if Lucian strikes to steal Ruins of Villars Abbey, Belgium if the vampire originally controlling RVAB had pumped a few blood points into it for manuevers before the theft? Are all manuevers lost? Do the unused manuevers transfer with RVAB to Lucian or remain with the original controller of RVAB for the remainder of the combat? 9, RE: Incriminating Videotape, if IV changes hands (by voluntary change, steal equipment, or diablerie), is the "chosen minion" incriminated by the tape now unable to block the new owner of IV? 10, RE: Fata Morgana, FM is an action modifer. Can another bleed card or bleed action be played first? Some specific examples: * Computer Hacking for +1 bleed (an action) followed by FM superior level for a total of +2 bleed. * Minion attempting to bleed, but modifying their bleed with cards specific to them (Laptop Computer, Spying Mission, Pulse of Canaille, Inveraray Scotland [I think that's the one I'm thinking of: +X bleed to minion]) before playing Fata Morgana. * A timing issue of playing another bleed action modifier first (Conditioning, Threats, et al)--I assume this is what the limitation to FM was trying to prevent: stacking with the Dominate and Presence-based bleed modifiers. My thinking is that the first two examples are legal, but the third isn't. CARD-WORDING QUIBBLES: X, RE: Faithful Servant, rather than reading "minion with this retainer", shouldn't this read "vampire with this retainer" as allies and other retainers are not likely to be in torpor and can't have minions? Y, RE: Rapid Healing, "acting vampire leaves torpor..." I assume this means without paying the usual 2 blood to leave torpor. Thanks for the patience and time, Brian sago...@maroon.tc.umn.edu

Daniel Hoffman

>1, Can a vampire voluntarily remain in torpor despite having sufficient >blood to rescue themself? The particular use I was thinking of was to >gain extra blood from the Faithful Servant. Yes, but I would rather rescue and then hunt since juicy vampires in torpor don't live long. >2, RE: Movement of Slow Body, Is "untapping" the action which may be >blocked? or does the +2 stealth and possibility of being blocked apply to >the now untapped vampire attempting to leave torpor--I can't think of any >other action a vampire in torpor would take, aside from leaving. Untapping is the action. >3, RE: RPG Launcher and Disguised Weapon, can RPGL ("only usable after the >first round of combat") be brought into play before range is chosen during >the SECOND OR LATER rounds of combat with DW ("only usable before range is >chosen") and put to use immediately? yes, fulfils card text. >4, RE: RPG Launcher and Strike: Steal Weapon, if RPGL is stolen in the >first round, can the new owner use it the second round? Essentially, is >the limitation literally that it be "after the first round of combat" or >must it be in possession of a minion for a round before use? see 3. >5, RE: Rutor's Hand and Merrill Molitor, can Molitor's special ability >prevent the aggravated damage from Rutor's Hand? If yes, at superior >level Thaumaturgy only or at both levels? Both levels, isn't considered prevention because he still takes the damage just not aggravated. >6, RE: Bastard Sword (V:TES version) & Blood Rage, if the V:TES Bastard >Sword provides +1 hand damage, is this considered striking with a weapon >(thus nullified by Blood Rage) or is this an improved hand strike? striking with a weapon >7, Similar to #6 above, are Thrown Gate and Thrown Sewer Lid considered >one-use weapons or actions that just happen to cause damage? Would Blood >Rage nullify these? just cards that cause damage >8, What happens if Lucian strikes to steal Ruins of Villars Abbey, Belgium >if the vampire originally controlling RVAB had pumped a few blood points >into it for manuevers before the theft? Equipment locations are considered locations not equipment once in play. > Are all manuevers lost? Do the unused manuevers transfer with RVAB to >Lucian or remain with the original controller of RVAB for the remainder of >the combat? Maneuvers are never lost >9, RE: Incriminating Videotape, if IV changes hands (by voluntary change, >steal equipment, or diablerie), is the "chosen minion" incriminated by the >tape now unable to block the new owner of IV? yes >10, RE: Fata Morgana, FM is an action modifer. Can another bleed card or >bleed action be played first? Some specific examples: yes > * A timing issue of playing another bleed action modifier first >(Conditioning, Threats, et al)--I assume this is what the limitation to FM >was trying to prevent: stacking with the Dominate and Presence-based >bleed modifiers. Only one action modifier changing the bleed may be used. >CARD-WORDING QUIBBLES: >X, RE: Faithful Servant, rather than reading "minion with this retainer", >shouldn't this read "vampire with this retainer" as allies and other >retainers are not likely to be in torpor and can't have minions? The same quible for Kindred Coercion. Not worth errata, it just doesn't fit the "template". >Y, RE: Rapid Healing, "acting vampire leaves torpor..." I assume this >means without paying the usual 2 blood to leave torpor. yes

REF

sten...@gold.tc.umn.edu (Jarrod P. Stenberg) wrote: > >1, Can a vampire voluntarily remain in torpor despite having sufficient >blood to rescue themself? The particular use I was thinking of was to >gain extra blood from the Faithful Servant. Yes, it takes an action to rescue and nothing says you have to take it. >2, RE: Movement of Slow Body, Is "untapping" the action which may be >blocked? or does the +2 stealth and possibility of being blocked apply to >the now untapped vampire attempting to leave torpor--I can't think of any >other action a vampire in torpor would take, aside from leaving. This one is vague. The action allows you to untap and perhaps get some blood. This allows the vampire to rescue themself on the same turn. >3, RE: RPG Launcher and Disguised Weapon, can RPGL ("only usable after the >first round of combat") be brought into play before range is chosen during >the SECOND OR LATER rounds of combat with DW ("only usable before range is >chosen") and put to use immediately? It can be done on any round. >6, RE: Bastard Sword (V:TES version) & Blood Rage, if the V:TES Bastard >Sword provides +1 hand damage, is this considered striking with a weapon >(thus nullified by Blood Rage) or is this an improved hand strike? It is still a melee weapon. Specifies weapons, so it would cancel a Sengir dagger as well. >7, Similar to #6 above, are Thrown Gate and Thrown Sewer Lid considered >one-use weapons or actions that just happen to cause damage? Would Blood >Rage nullify these? There not weapons (meaning equipment) but note that Blood Rage couldn't cancel sewer lid in any case since its long range only and the Blood cards only work at close range. So Blood rage has no effect on either card, anymore then it would on Aid from bats or growing fury. >8, What happens if Lucian strikes to steal Ruins of Villars Abbey, Belgium >if the vampire originally controlling RVAB had pumped a few blood points >into it for manuevers before the theft? > Are all manuevers lost? Do the unused manuevers transfer with RVAB to >Lucian or remain with the original controller of RVAB for the remainder of >the combat? Lucian can't steel the card. The new locations are treated as equipment to fit them into the existing mechanics. They are brought out as equipment but behave as locations once in play. >9, RE: Incriminating Videotape, if IV changes hands (by voluntary change, >steal equipment, or diablerie), is the "chosen minion" incriminated by the >tape now unable to block the new owner of IV? Yep. Anybody can blackmail afterall. >10, RE: Fata Morgana, FM is an action modifer. Can another bleed card or >bleed action be played first? Some specific examples: > * Computer Hacking for +1 bleed (an action) followed by FM superior >level for a total of +2 bleed. > * Minion attempting to bleed, but modifying their bleed with cards >specific to them (Laptop Computer, Spying Mission, Pulse of Canaille, >Inveraray Scotland [I think that's the one I'm thinking of: +X bleed to >minion]) before playing Fata Morgana. > * A timing issue of playing another bleed action modifier first >(Conditioning, Threats, et al)--I assume this is what the limitation to FM >was trying to prevent: stacking with the Dominate and Presence-based >bleed modifiers. > My thinking is that the first two examples are legal, but the third isn't. I agree fully. Thats why the new bleed boost mod cards specify that you can't further modify the bleed. Most of your other examples are modifying base bleed. >CARD-WORDING QUIBBLES: >X, RE: Faithful Servant, rather than reading "minion with this retainer", >shouldn't this read "vampire with this retainer" as allies and other >retainers are not likely to be in torpor and can't have minions? And they wouldn't typically have much need of the extra blood<g>. >Y, RE: Rapid Healing, "acting vampire leaves torpor..." I assume this >means without paying the usual 2 blood to leave torpor. I never liked the wording on that one either. I assume the same thing though. >Thanks for the patience and time, >Brian >sago...@maroon.tc.umn.edu Your welcome, Rory

L. Scott Johnson

dhof...@cris.com (Daniel Hoffman) writes: All correct except: >>5, RE: Rutor's Hand and Merrill Molitor, can Molitor's special ability >>prevent the aggravated damage from Rutor's Hand? If yes, at superior >>level Thaumaturgy only or at both levels? >Both levels, isn't considered prevention because he still takes the damage >just not aggravated. Only at superior, since Merrill's power is only useful in combat, and only the superior version of Rutor's Hand involes a simulated combat strike. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | My neurons must have tenure - http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | none of them can be fired. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

Thomas R Wylie

Daniel Hoffman <dhof...@cris.com> wrote: >>5, RE: Rutor's Hand and Merrill Molitor, can Molitor's special ability >>prevent the aggravated damage from Rutor's Hand? If yes, at superior >>level Thaumaturgy only or at both levels? >Both levels, isn't considered prevention because he still takes the damage >just not aggravated. His ability only applies to damage taken during combat, so only applies if he uses the superior version of the card (in which case you treat the damage as having been dealt during combat). Since he starts with superior Thaumaturgy, he'll probably be converting the damage to normal, but sooner or later someone will find a reason not to (maybe prior to calling an Ancilla Empowerment). Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Jarrod P. Stenberg

> dhof...@cris.com (Daniel Hoffman) writes: > All correct except: > > >>5, RE: Rutor's Hand and Merrill Molitor, can Molitor's special ability > >>prevent the aggravated damage from Rutor's Hand? If yes, at superior > >>level Thaumaturgy only or at both levels? > > >Both levels, isn't considered prevention because he still takes the damage > >just not aggravated. > > Only at superior, since Merrill's power is only useful in combat, and > only the superior version of Rutor's Hand involes a simulated combat strike. "All correct..."? Some of the questions were in an either/or format, so I'm not quite sure what the answers are. I can be dense sometimes, but I'm feeling pretty lucid today. Specifically, can someone answer questions 6,7,8, and 10? Thanks in advance, Brian

Shane Travis

Re: your request to answer 6,7,8,10: Jarrod P. Stenberg (sten...@gold.tc.umn.edu) wrote: : 6, RE: Bastard Sword (V:TES version) & Blood Rage, if the V:TES Bastard : Sword provides +1 hand damage, is this considered striking with a weapon : (thus nullified by Blood Rage) or is this an improved hand strike? Bastard sword is (I believe) still a weapon in the VTES version, and thus would be nullified by Blood Rage. : 7, Similar to #6 above, are Thrown Gate and Thrown Sewer Lid considered : one-use weapons or actions that just happen to cause damage? Would Blood : Rage nullify these? Torn Gate and TSL are _not_ weapons: they are combat cards. If it doesn't say 'WEAPON' on the card, it isn't a weapon. : 8, What happens if Lucian strikes to steal Ruins of Villars Abbey, Belgium : if the vampire originally controlling RVAB had pumped a few blood points : into it for manuevers before the theft? Official Errata: Equipment/Location cards are treated as equipment _only_ when they are being brought into play. After they are in play, they are treated as locations only. Thus, Lucian could not steal the Ruins, rendering the question moot. : 10, RE: Fata Morgana, FM is an action modifer. Can another bleed card or : bleed action be played first? Some specific examples: : * Computer Hacking for +1 bleed (an action) followed by FM superior : level for a total of +2 bleed. : * Minion attempting to bleed, but modifying their bleed with cards : specific to them (Laptop Computer, Spying Mission, Pulse of Canaille, : Inveraray Scotland [I think that's the one I'm thinking of: +X bleed to : minion]) before playing Fata Morgana. : * A timing issue of playing another bleed action modifier first : (Conditioning, Threats, et al)--I assume this is what the limitation to FM : was trying to prevent: stacking with the Dominate and Presence-based : bleed modifiers. : My thinking is that the first two examples are legal, but the third isn't. Your thinking is correct on all counts. Shane H.W. Travis | Galbraith's Law of Human Nature: Faced with the tra...@duke.usask.ca | choice between changing one's mind and proving Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | that there is no need to do so, almost everybody | gets busy on the proof.