Puzzler #2

I should also mention that none of the other players have any Out-Of-Turn Masters in their hands (for those of you who need such information) Corrected set-up follows: Set-up: X-players (X >= 2). Player 1: Joe Player 2: Bill Joe: Hand: Aura Reading Blur Fast Hands Hidden Lurker Legal Manipulations Psyche Sudden Reversal Ready/Active Area: Rake w/ 6 blood and a celerity skill card. Miranda Sonova w/ 8 blood. Bill: Hand: Aura Reading Obedience Rotschreck Sudden Reversal Wake w/ Evening's Freshness Wake w/ Evening's Freshness Zip Gun Ready/Active Area: Gilbert Duane w/ 2 blood and a Flamethrower TAPPED Mariel - Lady Thunder w/ 4 blood TAPPED Elysium - the Arboretum UNTAPPED Joe's turn: Untap Rake and Miranda. No Master. Rake bleeds Bill with Legal Manipulations. Joe draws Flash Gilbert plays a Wakey and blocks. Rake plays Aura Reading (inferior) Joe draws Faceless Night Gilbert plays Aura Reading (inferior) Bill draws Conditioning ---- Now, with perfect knowledge of each others hands, assuming that all of the subsequent draws from libraries are Legal Manipulations (Joe) and Govern the Unaligned (Bill) (assuming that none of the other Methuselahs has any Out of Turn Masters in their hands), Can Joe get the Flamethrower from Gilbert into the possession of either of Joe's minions? How? or How can Bill prevent this? -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | He who laughs last http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | thinks slowest Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

Sorry I could not post the puzzler text as my Netscape will not allow me to quote more text than I have added text. You basically have 2 end combat cards and 1 maneuver card usable by Bill. Joe has 2 continue combat cards and one maneuver card. Whatever order they are played in Joe can continue. Bill has one more unusual option to end combat, Rotsreich! Because the effect occurs when the aggravated damage is announced, WHETHER SUCCESSFUL OR NOT, the Fast Hands will not take effect before the Rotsreich does. So here's what we got. Combat is always at close. Playing a Zip gun is futile as the Flash will just bring the combat back to close. If the Elysium or Mariel is tapped to end combat then Rake continues combat with Psyche. Close again. If the Elysium or Mariel is used to end combat again Miranda continues with Hidden Lurker. As there is no strike given to Gilbert because of the HL, the Rots can not be used and the FT is stolen. If Bill uses the Rotzreich to end combat and send Gilbert to topor while in combat with Rake then Miranda will diablarize Gilbert. If Mariel attempts to block, Miranda can use the Faceless Night to avoid the block. When Miranda diablarizes Gilbert she gets his equipment (although it may be a short lived ownership as blood hunts are often fatal). The Blur, Sudden Reversal, Wake, Obedience, and Conditioning are all irrelevant as are all subsequent draws.

That's all fine but what's to stop Gilbert from just playing Obedience to stop it before combat begins? That way, neither Psyche or Hidden Lurker can be used because combat didn't happen. And then, if Joe tries to bleed with Miranda, use Lady Thunder to block instead of Gilbert. What am I missing here? *laugh* Oh, that is tricky. I almost missed the celerity skill card on Rake. So, Gilbert can't play Obedience, because he's not older than Rake. Hmm. In that case, it seems like Joe's minions get the flamethrower. Flash counters the Zip Gun. Using the Flamethrower and Rotschreck in the first combat means that Miranda will get it via Diablerie. Using the Elysium in the first combat means that Miranda will Hidden Lurker and Fast Hands. The only other thing that might change this would be if Lady Thunder could Wake and use her special in the Gilbert combat... but I don't think that Wake with Evening's Freshness is quite that powerful. -Scott

[ quoted text not captured ] >*laugh* [ quoted text not captured ] Hmm. Seems that that one wasn't as difficult as I thought. (And you're right about Mariel not being able to use a Wakey to end combat). I'll have to do better next time. [ quoted text not captured ]

On 12 Feb 1997 13:08:01 GMT, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: >aum...@io.com (Scott Shaw) writes: >>That's all fine but what's to stop Gilbert from just playing Obedience >>to stop it before combat begins? That way, neither Psyche or Hidden >>Lurker can be used because combat didn't happen. And then, if Joe tries to >>bleed with Miranda, use Lady Thunder to block instead of Gilbert. > >>What am I missing here? > >>*laugh* > >>Oh, that is tricky. I almost missed the celerity skill card on Rake. >>So, Gilbert can't play Obedience, because he's not older than Rake. Well, actually, there's another complication. Combat has already started, as both players have played aura readings, which they couldn't if the time was stil available to play the obedience. >>Hmm. In that case, it seems like Joe's minions get the flamethrower. > >>Flash counters the Zip Gun. Using the Flamethrower and Rotschreck in >>the first combat means that Miranda will get it via Diablerie. Using the >>Elysium in the first combat means that Miranda will Hidden Lurker >>and Fast Hands. > >>The only other thing that might change this would be if Lady Thunder >>could Wake and use her special in the Gilbert combat... but I don't think >>that Wake with Evening's Freshness is quite that powerful. > > >Hmm. Seems that that one wasn't as difficult as I thought. >(And you're right about Mariel not being able to use a Wakey >to end combat). > >I'll have to do better next time. Why do I always have to miss these things when the first come out? Maybe I should post one of the more obnoxious complicated dillemas from my playgroup to see what you people think... Alec Chang

[ quoted text not captured ] Please do. -- Jeffrey Endres Undergrad B. Eng (Aerospace Avionics) Queensland University of Technology "All human actions are equivalent ... and ... all are on principle doomed to failure." Jean-Paul Sartre (Being and Nothingness, Conclusion, sct. 2)