SABBAT SPOILERS: Questions

On 1 Nov 1996, ro...@duke.usask.ca (Nicole Roy) wrote: >Rules Questions >--------------- >Hidden Pathways: Define 'directed at your prey'. Do damaging votes count? >(I'm assuming that they do not; you are not supposed to name the target >of a vote until it is unblocked, after which point this card would be >useless. At the same time, I find nothing which prevents you from doing >so in advance...) An action is "directed at your prey" if it is a directed action and the target is your Prey (including actions directed at a card or cards controlled by your Prey). >Mind of a Child: Is the action to burn this card (D) or Undirected? It is undirected. Although by the definition of directed, the action should be directed when attempted by a vampire controlled by a Methuselah other than the controller of the victim of Mind of a Child (who is thus the controller of Mind of a Child itself), the Rules Team has clearly indicated that this definition is only a guideline. The only thing that determines the directedness of an action is the presence or absence of the (D) symbol on the card text (or in errata, in the cases where card text is in error in an obvious way). (Precedent set by The Treatment.) >My Enemy's Enemy: Just double checking on this one. If I am understanding >correctly, you can end up bleeding yourself in a three-person game. >Doesn't this break some sort of fundamental rule? And if you _do_ end up >bleeding yourself, can you have one of your vampires attempt to block it? No, in a three-player game, if your Predator is bleeding you and you play My Enemy's Enemy, then she is now bleeding your Predator's Predator, i.e., her Predator, i.e., your Prey. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com) Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. (*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

>No, in a three-player game, if your Predator is bleeding >you and you play >My Enemy's Enemy, then she is now bleeding your >Predator's Predator, i.e., >her Predator, i.e., your Prey. Actually, if your prey plays Enemies' Enemy, then your predator could bleed himself, so the question still holds. --- Liam Burke "Only a Malkavian would attack Cthulhu with laughing gas..." -overheard

JlB1925 (jlb...@aol.com) wrote: : >No, in a three-player game, if your Predator is bleeding >you and you : play : >My Enemy's Enemy, then she is now bleeding your >Predator's Predator, : i.e., : >her Predator, i.e., your Prey. : Actually, if your prey plays Enemies' Enemy, then your predator could : bleed himself, so the question still holds. If your Prey plays MEE, the you are the one who is taking the action, so your Predator won't be bleeding anyone at all. MEE cannot, under any contrivance, possibly indicate that someone will end up performing a self-bleed. [ quoted text not captured ]

vte...@wizards.com (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: > JlB1925 (jlb...@aol.com) wrote: > : >No, in a three-player game, if your Predator is bleeding >you and you > : play > : >My Enemy's Enemy, then she is now bleeding your >Predator's Predator, > : i.e., > : >her Predator, i.e., your Prey. > : Actually, if your prey plays Enemies' Enemy, then your predator could > : bleed himself, so the question still holds. > > If your Prey plays MEE, the you are the one who is taking the action, > so your Predator won't be bleeding anyone at all. > > MEE cannot, under any contrivance, possibly indicate that someone > will end up performing a self-bleed. Just to rephrase what Scott is saying: the card text on MEE prohibits playing the card unless you are being bled by your predator's minion, so in your example your prey can't play MEE in response to a misdirected bleed from your predator (which would otherwise result in a self-bleed). --- Eric Pettersen pe...@cgl.ucsf.edu (NeXTmail capable)

L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) wrote: : If your Prey plays MEE, the you are the one who is taking the action, : so your Predator won't be bleeding anyone at all. : MEE cannot, under any contrivance, possibly indicate that someone : will end up performing a self-bleed. I _think_ I'm the one that wrote the original question, long long ago when Sabbat first came out. If so, I mis-read the card, and mis-asked the question. So, while my original question has no relevance, is there not still a case where the vampire can end up bleeding its owner--namely, a 2-player game? My Enemy's Enemy Reaction Auspex Normal: +1 intercept Superior: Only usable when a minion controlled by your predator attempts to bleed you. Tap this reacting vampire. The minion is now bleeding your predator's predator. Artist: Dave Seeley Rarity: Rare A: "Ozmo bleeds." B: "Block with Anneke" A: Proceeds to play more stealth than B has intercept. B: Plays 'My Enemy's Enemy' Ozmo should now be bleeding the predator of A's predator... namely, the predator of B... namely A. Wnat am I missing about this situation that makes outside the realm of possible contrivance? Seems to me that MEE is the _only_ bleed-bounce card which is useful in a two-player game, as the rest of them all state that the bleed cannot be bounced back to the acting Meth. As there is no such restriction printed on this card, I reiterate my question: -- Is there anything fundamental about the bleed action which prevents it it from being redirected back at the acting Methuselah? -- If so, why? (since card text is quite plain here...) -- If not, is there anything fundamental about the redirection process which either allows or the acting Methuselah to attempt to block his own minion with another or prevents him from doing so? Shane H.W. Travis | There is nothing more frightful ro...@duke.usask.ca | than ignorance in action. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -Goethe

Nicole Roy (ro...@duke.usask.ca) wrote: : L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) wrote: : : MEE cannot, under any contrivance, possibly indicate that someone : : will end up performing a self-bleed. : I _think_ I'm the one that wrote the original question, long long ago when : Sabbat first came out. If so, I mis-read the card, and mis-asked the : question. So, while my original question has no relevance, is there not : still a case where the vampire can end up bleeding its owner--namely, a : 2-player game? : My Enemy's Enemy Reaction Auspex : Normal: +1 intercept : Superior: Only usable when a minion controlled by your predator attempts : to bleed you. Tap this reacting vampire. The minion is now bleeding : your predator's predator. Yes, you wrote the original question (note the newsserve listed in the References: line of the header). In a two player game, if a minion controlled by your predator bleeds you, and you play MEE, then that minion will be bleeding your Predator's Predator, which is you. So, the minion controlled by your Predator is still bleeding you, and all you've done is cycle a card. : A: "Ozmo bleeds." : B: "Block with Anneke" : A: Proceeds to play more stealth than B has intercept. : B: Plays 'My Enemy's Enemy' : Ozmo should now be bleeding the predator of A's predator... namely, the : predator of B... namely A. : Wnat am I missing about this situation that makes outside the realm of : possible contrivance? : Seems to me that MEE is the _only_ bleed-bounce card which is useful in a : two-player game, as the rest of them all state that the bleed cannot be : bounced back to the acting Meth. As there is no such restriction printed : on this card, I reiterate my question: : -- Is there anything fundamental about the bleed action which prevents it : it from being redirected back at the acting Methuselah? : -- If so, why? (since card text is quite plain here...) : -- If not, is there anything fundamental about the redirection process : which either allows or the acting Methuselah to attempt to block : his own minion with another or prevents him from doing so? : Shane H.W. Travis | There is nothing more frightful : ro...@duke.usask.ca | than ignorance in action. : Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -Goethe -- [ quoted text not captured ]

L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) wrote: : : My Enemy's Enemy Reaction Auspex : : Normal: +1 intercept : : Superior: Only usable when a minion controlled by your predator attempts : : to bleed you. Tap this reacting vampire. The minion is now bleeding : : your predator's predator. : In a two player game, if a minion controlled by your predator : bleeds you, and you play MEE, then that minion will be bleeding : your Predator's Predator, which is you. So, the minion controlled : by your Predator is still bleeding you, and all you've done is : cycle a card. Ummm... D'oh? So I misread this card not once, but _twice_ -- and after you were so kind as to point it out to me too. Sheesh. (switching back to lurk mode) Shane H.W. Travis | There is nothing more frightful ro...@duke.usask.ca | than ignorance in action. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -Goethe ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This wasn't _supposed_ to refer to me... :-)