Undead Persistance Q

I know this is basic stuff, but I'm not digging up the answers. Vamp A is going to torpor, plays Undead Persistance and Presses to continue. Vamp B Flashes and presses to end. No further presses. Can Vamp A play a second UP since he is now back on his way to torpor? We've passed the press step, so I don't see any way for him to continue to another round of combat, but the player doesn't see it that way. Seems to me he could dump the card out of hand for no effect, but is even that allowed? David Cherryholmes Prince of Durham, NC

On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, David Cherryholmes wrote: > I know this is basic stuff, but I'm not digging up the answers. As in "I tried and failed to find the answers." I realized as my post showed up there is an alternative, obnoxious interpretation that could be made. [ quoted text not captured ]

David Cherryholmes wrote: > > I know this is basic stuff, but I'm not digging up the answers. Google: "undead persistence after combat press author:LSJ" (The third hit, when sorted by relevance) The "answer" is addressed in there, but maybe not as directly as you were looking for. > Vamp A is going to torpor, plays Undead Persistance and Presses to > continue. Vamp B Flashes and presses to end. No further presses. Can > Vamp A play a second UP since he is now back on his way to torpor? No. He's not on his way to torpor until after combat (i.e., not in the press step). > We've > passed the press step, so I don't see any way for him to continue to > another round of combat, but the player doesn't see it that way. You've passed the press step, yes. > Seems to > me he could dump the card out of hand for no effect, but is even that > allowed? No. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

David Cherryholmes <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote in message news:<Pine.GSO.4.21.021223...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu>... > I know this is basic stuff, but I'm not digging up the answers. > > Vamp A is going to torpor, plays Undead Persistance and Presses to > continue. Vamp B Flashes and presses to end. No further presses. Can > Vamp A play a second UP since he is now back on his way to torpor? Why cannot vamp a play a second UP at this point? it is played when combat ends "Only usable when this vampire should go into torpor. This vampire gets an optional press and will not go to torpor until combat ends (although he or she is still considered wounded and can be burned as normal). If 3 rounds of combat pass with no cards played, combat ends. This vampire is sent into torpor after combat." the vamp A should be going into torpor. even if it's after the press step, s/he should be allowed to play another UP. We've > passed the press step, so I don't see any way for him to continue to > another round of combat, but the player doesn't see it that way. Seems to > me he could dump the card out of hand for no effect, but is even that > allowed? The card isn't dumped for no effect, it's played as he's going to torpor, and so when he plays it, the vamp get's an optional press and will not go to torpor until combat ends. Would you deny a vamp from playing UP when taking 1 agg from Weather Control just because it's not during the press step? jds [ quoted text not captured ]

David Cherryholmes <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote in message news:<Pine.GSO.4.21.021223...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu>... [ quoted text not captured ] Signs point to no. Current text of Undead Persistence: "[for] Only usable when this vampire should go into torpor. This vampire gets an optional press and will not go to torpor until combat ends (although he or she is still considered wounded and can be burned as normal). If 3 rounds of combat pass with no cards played, combat ends. This vampire is sent into torpor after combat." Relevant pieces as I see them: (1) "This vampire is sent into torpor *after* combat." The vamp's not going to torpor until the combat has already ended. Therefore you can't play another one on the "when this vampire should go into torpor" condition, since he's not going to torpor until the combat is over, at which point combat cards are no longer playable. (2) You're right about press timing. When the combat ends due to no uncanceled press to continue, the press step is over. The round is ending; the combat is ending. You can't play more presses once you've allowed combat to end due to lack of a press to continue. It'd be sort of a paradox to try it. :-) Josh maybe if undead persistence required [TEM FOR]...