rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Some card/rules questions

9 messages from 5 participants · 18 February 2002
original thread on Google Groups

Petri Wessman

Ok, here's some questions that have been popping up over here lately, answers appreciated :) - If I contest an infernal vampire and the other guy yields, do I gain control of the vampire before the infernal penalty kicks in or after (or can I choose)? In other words, do I get the vampire tapped or untapped? - Anesthetic Touch: Strike: make a hand strike. Combat ends immediately after the resolution of this strike. I'd like some clarifications on this, so are the following correct? a) If the other minion plays a normal strike, the AT is resolved and combat ends (the other strike is never resolved). b) If the other minion plays a first strike also, both are resolved normally (and combat ends). c) If the other minion plays a dodge, the AT has no effect and combat ends (since dodge trumps first strike). d) If the other minion plays S:CE, combat ends immediately (since S:CE trumps first strike). - Contagion (and possibly others) are marked as "action, unique". What does this mean, exactly? a) A vampire plays Contagion and is blocked, can another vampire attempt Contagion later? b) A vampire plays Contagion successfully. Now if another vampire would play Contagion, would the Contagion contest or would the action be prohibited? c) A vampire plays Contagion, but is later burnt. Can another vampire now play Contagion without restrictions? //Petri

James Coupe

In message <7xsn7zq...@orava.akumiitti.fi>, Petri Wessman <or...@akumiitti.fi> writes: >- If I contest an infernal vampire and the other guy yields, do I gain > control of the vampire before the infernal penalty kicks in or after > (or can I choose)? In other words, do I get the vampire tapped or > untapped? Since the guy will have been out of play, you won't have had chance to do the Infernal thing. There's no "Infernal" phase during your untap. So when you gain control of him again, you choose at some point between then and the end of your untap phase whether to pay the pool or tap him. >- Anesthetic Touch: Strike: make a hand strike. Combat ends > immediately after the resolution of this strike. > > I'd like some clarifications on this, so are the following correct? > > a) If the other minion plays a normal strike, the AT is resolved > and combat ends (the other strike is never resolved). No, this is a hand strike - and so resolves normally, so far as I can tell. The other strike in the pair resolves simultaneously (assuming a normal strike). Then after the resolution of this strike (which occurs simultaneously with the resolution of the opposing strike), combat ends. If played with [OBE], then after the resolution of first strikes, combat ends. > b) If the other minion plays a first strike also, both are resolved > normally (and combat ends). Why the necessity for first strike? This is just a hand strike, at the [obe] level you cite. However, at [OBE], two First Strikes would resolve simultaneously. Then combat would end. > c) If the other minion plays a dodge, the AT has no effect and > combat ends (since dodge trumps first strike). Dodge beats either strike - first or no. So the strike will take effect, then combat will end. > d) If the other minion plays S:CE, combat ends immediately (since > S:CE trumps first strike). Yes, the S:CE strike will cause combat to end when it resolves, regardless of whether this was played at [obe] or [OBE]. >- Contagion (and possibly others) are marked as "action, unique". What > does this mean, exactly? That the Contagion is a controlled card that will contest with other copies of itself, per all Unique cards. > a) A vampire plays Contagion and is blocked, can another vampire > attempt Contagion later? Sure. Just like if you attempt to bring in a piece of unique locquipment which is blocked, you can try again later. > b) A vampire plays Contagion successfully. Now if another vampire > would play Contagion, would the Contagion contest or would the > action be prohibited? If you attempted to bring in another yourself, the action would be prohibited by the self-contesting rules. Another Baali controlled by someone else on the table could do it, however. > c) A vampire plays Contagion, but is later burnt. Can another > vampire now play Contagion without restrictions? Sure. This is effectively just the same as you controlling Pier 13 on a vampire. You can't get another, someone else can. And if it gets burned, everyone forgets about it and can do it all over again. -- James Coupe but I lust after the raw pow0r of c. PGP 0x5D623D5D together with the humping great EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 elephant arse of gnome. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D - Vashti

James Coupe

In message <KIH25nPS...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk>, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> writes: >> c) If the other minion plays a dodge, the AT has no effect and >> combat ends (since dodge trumps first strike). > >Dodge beats either strike - first or no. > >So the strike will take effect, then combat will end. Insert: but the hand strike part will do nothing (or similar) [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

James Coupe wrote: > In message <7xsn7zq...@orava.akumiitti.fi>, Petri Wessman > >- If I contest an infernal vampire and the other guy yields, do I gain > > control of the vampire before the infernal penalty kicks in or after > > (or can I choose)? In other words, do I get the vampire tapped or > > untapped? > > Since the guy will have been out of play, you won't have had chance to > do the Infernal thing. There's no "Infernal" phase during your untap. > > So when you gain control of him again, you choose at some point between > then and the end of your untap phase whether to pay the pool or tap him. Correct, per the FAQ on the BL rules sheet. [BL 4] [snip more correct stuff - no comments to add] > > c) If the other minion plays a dodge, the AT has no effect and > > combat ends (since dodge trumps first strike). > > Dodge beats either strike - first or no. > > So the strike will take effect, then combat will end. Correct. Dodge only protects the dodger. It doesn't cause the other effects of the strike to fizzle. [more snippage] -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Sorrow

> Correct. Dodge only protects the dodger. It doesn't cause the other effects > of the strike to fizzle. Then how come if you Dodge a Bone/Fleshcraft, you don't get affected by the -1 stealth/strength? Sorrow --- "...but you know, evil is an exact science..."

James Coupe

In message <u71sbaq...@corp.supernews.com>, Sorrow <cbo...@apdi.net> writes: >> Correct. Dodge only protects the dodger. It doesn't cause the other effects >> of the strike to fizzle. > >Then how come if you Dodge a Bone/Fleshcraft, you don't get affected >by the -1 stealth/strength? Because it's protecting the dodger. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

Sorrow wrote: > > > Correct. Dodge only protects the dodger. It doesn't cause the other effects > > of the strike to fizzle. > > Then how come if you Dodge a Bone/Fleshcraft, you don't get affected > by the -1 stealth/strength? Dodge protects the dodger. [ quoted text not captured ]

Petri Wessman

On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:20:50 +0000, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> said: >> - Anesthetic Touch: Strike: make a hand strike. Combat ends >> immediately after the resolution of this strike. >> >> I'd like some clarifications on this, so are the following correct? >> >> a) If the other minion plays a normal strike, the AT is resolved >> and combat ends (the other strike is never resolved). James> No, this is a hand strike - and so resolves normally, so far as James> I can tell. The other strike in the pair resolves James> simultaneously (assuming a normal strike). Then after the James> resolution of this strike (which occurs simultaneously with the James> resolution of the opposing strike), combat ends. James> If played with [OBE], then after the resolution of first James> strikes, combat ends. Sorry, I was talking about the superior (first strike) version the whole time. >> b) If the other minion plays a first strike also, both are resolved >> normally (and combat ends). James> Why the necessity for first strike? This is just a hand James> strike, at the [obe] level you cite. James> However, at [OBE], two First Strikes would resolve James> simultaneously. Then combat would end. Yeah, I was talking about the OBE version. >> c) If the other minion plays a dodge, the AT has no effect and >> combat ends (since dodge trumps first strike). James> Dodge beats either strike - first or no. James> So the strike will take effect, then combat will end. When you say "strike will take effect", you mean the dodge don't you? With dodge, the AT should not have any effect(?) >> d) If the other minion plays S:CE, combat ends immediately (since >> S:CE trumps first strike). James> Yes, the S:CE strike will cause combat to end when it resolves, James> regardless of whether this was played at [obe] or [OBE]. Ok. >> b) A vampire plays Contagion successfully. Now if another vampire >> would play Contagion, would the Contagion contest or would the >> action be prohibited? James> If you attempted to bring in another yourself, the action would be James> prohibited by the self-contesting rules. James> Another Baali controlled by someone else on the table could do it, James> however. Ok. Assuming the other Baali is successful, then either would presumably have the option to yield the contest, as per normal contesting rules. Hmmm, ok. //Petri

Sten During

Petri Wessman wrote: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:20:50 +0000, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> said: > >>>c) If the other minion plays a dodge, the AT has no effect and >>>combat ends (since dodge trumps first strike). >>> > > James> Dodge beats either strike - first or no. > James> So the strike will take effect, then combat will end. > > When you say "strike will take effect", you mean the dodge don't you? > With dodge, the AT should not have any effect(?) > > Actually no. AT takes effect but dodge protects the target from any harmful effects. Consider the hypothetical card Inspired Strike. Inspired Strike: Make a Hand Strike at strength damage. The next strike this minion does is at +1 strength. With such a wording, if dodged, the striking minion will still benefit from the +1 strength in a later combat. Compare this with the situation when Wantenda uses his built in ability to cancel the effect of a strike. Watenda cancels Inspired Strike, and thus the striking minion will not gain the beneficial effect at a later time. Sten During