Ghoul Retainer Q [LSJ]

Something that came up this weekend: A minion had a few (3 I believe) Ghoul Retainers on it. Combat inevitably ensued. The minion with the retainers had 2 weapons, one that the vampire used, and another weapon that all three Ghoul Retainers used. The opposing minion dodged. Assuming that the weapon strikes were valid at whatever range the combat is occuring: *Do the Ghoul Retainers each have to use a different weapon, or may they all use the same weapon, as long as the employing minion is not using it? *If the opposing minion dodges, he avoids the first minion's strike, but he cannot dodge the retainers' strikes, correct? Their damage is quasi-environmental, or something? Xian -- I'd tell the world and save my soul, But rain falls down and I feel cold. A cold that sleeps within my heart, It tears the earth and sun apart. --_Shellshock_, New Order www.waste.org/~xian

In article <3ZfZ5.4386$sZ4.4...@news.uswest.net>, Xian <xi...@waste.org> writes >*Do the Ghoul Retainers each have to use a different weapon, or may they all >use the same weapon, as long as the employing minion is not using it? No. Derek Ray, I believed, has tried to "abuse" this with multiple Ghoul Retaines and Flamethrowers and still not managed something brilliant. Telepathic Tracking might make it interesting now though. >*If the opposing minion dodges, he avoids the first minion's strike, but he >cannot dodge the retainers' strikes, correct? Their damage is >quasi-environmental, or something? There damage is figured like a Wolf Companion or whatever. Preventable, but not with "all damage from a strike". -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "It's hard to carry on when you feel all alone. Now I've swung back down again, it's worse than it was before. If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor." - James, "Sit Down"

In article <3ZfZ5.4386$sZ4.4...@news.uswest.net>, "Xian" <xi...@waste.org> wrote: > Something that came up this weekend: > > A minion had a few (3 I believe) Ghoul Retainers on it. Combat > inevitably ensued. The minion with the retainers had 2 weapons, > one that the vampire used, and another weapon that all three Ghoul > Retainers used. The opposing minion dodged. Note on answer that follows: All retainers following the rulings for Wolf Companion, as appropriate. > Assuming that the weapon strikes were valid at whatever range > the combat is occuring: > > *Do the Ghoul Retainers each have to use a different weapon, or may > they all use the same weapon, as long as the employing minion is not > using it? They may all use the same weapon at the same time. Thank Tom Wylie. From http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulings.html : Ghoul Retainer - Retainer (2) Read as "Each round of combat, Ghoul uses hands for 1 damage or a weapon of the employing minion that the minion is not presently using." [RTR 19941109] More than one Ghoul Retainer employed by a Minion could "use" the same weapon (that the Minion is not using) at the same time. [TOM 19950921] > *If the opposing minion dodges, he avoids the minion's strike, > but he cannot dodge the retainers' strikes, correct? Retainers don't get strikes. They do damage. This damage will not be avoided by dodge or prevented by "Card: Prevent Damage From a Strike". Damage from retainers can never be dodged. "The damage is not a strike, so cannot be prevented by a dodge. [RTR 19941109] " Also, the Ghoul Retainer will not do damage again that round with the weapon if their controller gets extra strikes. The only way to avoid the damage is Strike: Combat Ends, and being at the wrong range for the damage done by the retianer. > Their damage is quasi-environmental, or something? Or something. Environmental damage is not mentioned in the rules at all. It is simply a description of damage that does not come from the minion even though it may come from cards played on or by the minion. Carpe Noctem. Lasombra http://lasombra.tripod.com http://legbiter.tripod.com http://vekn_clans.tripod.com Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 02:41:24 +0000, James Coupe <ve...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: >In article <3ZfZ5.4386$sZ4.4...@news.uswest.net>, Xian ><xi...@waste.org> writes >>*Do the Ghoul Retainers each have to use a different weapon, or may they all >>use the same weapon, as long as the employing minion is not using it? > >No. Derek Ray, I believed, has tried to "abuse" this with multiple >Ghoul Retaines and Flamethrowers and still not managed something >brilliant. Telepathic Tracking might make it interesting now though. Actually, that wasn't me (surprisingly, since it sounds like something i'd try. I think it's the only-2 Ghoul Retainers I own). Pat Ricochet, however, has tried to get anything at ALL to happen with multiple Ghoul Retainers, and they go boom usually. A lot of times it's difficult to get anything to happen with INDIVIDUAL Ghoul Retainers, from what I can tell when he plays the deck/decks. Telepathic Tracking might make it interesting, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Pat's last effort, I believe, was getting a Retainer or two and Disguised Weaponing the toy out; it suffers from the usual problem with toys, which is that people run away from them and you have to figure out how to get into combat once you have the stinking things all ladled up onto a minion, and then you have to figure out how to oust someone with all that attached. Too many moving parts. Pat? :) -- Derek Jack-Booted Thug of Atlanta "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." - C. Darwin, 1871

[ quoted text not captured ] Actually, it was RPG Launchers and either Torment the Soul or SNS/DB for the agg on top. 2nd round, lots of "moving parts," as Derek said, etc. I was able to use Virgil burning the Ghoul Retainers and/or Compel the Spirit and/or Ambrosius in the Compel the Spirit version, but the SNS/DB with Jeeves the Ghoul holding your RPG for you took only cel/obf, and so worked better, but cost more. As a testament to their sum victory of 0 VPs, however, both are dismantled, and I'm not posting *either* deck to the V:TES Atlanta site. =) -- Pat Ricochet Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta

"James Coupe" <ve...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:p93u0XFU...@obeah.demon.co.uk... > In article <3ZfZ5.4386$sZ4.4...@news.uswest.net>, Xian > <xi...@waste.org> writes > >*Do the Ghoul Retainers each have to use a different weapon, or may they all > >use the same weapon, as long as the employing minion is not using it? > > No. From the official rulings and errata: More than one Ghoul Retainer employed by a Minion could "use" the same weapon (that the Minion is not using) at the same time. [TOM 19950921] -- Robert Goudie Chairman, V:EKN rob...@vtesinla.org

>> Their damage is quasi-environmental, or something? > >Or something. >Environmental damage is not mentioned in the rules at all. >It is simply a description of damage that does not come from >the minion even though it may come from cards played on >or by the minion. Is retainer damage done one at a time or simultaneously? (Or does it depend on the controller?) In the case of the Flamethrower, would you send the vampire to torpor (and combat ends) as soon as one Retainer does the 2R agg, or can your three Retainers simultaneously do 6R agg? Halcyan 2

[ quoted text not captured ] Retainer damage is done during the normal strike resolution phase. Other "during strike resolution" effects are also done during normal strike resolution (cf. Carrion Crows). All of these effects are simultaeous with one another. If you make a normal (as opposed to First Strike) strike, then all of those effects are resolved simultaenously with the strike, as well. The 3 Ghouls could use the Flamethrower to deal 6R agg (plus whatever damage your strike does). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

In article <g_iZ5.61773$II2.5...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, Robert Goudie <rrgo...@earthlink.net> writes >> >*Do the Ghoul Retainers each have to use a different weapon, or may they >all >> >use the same weapon, as long as the employing minion is not using it? >> >> No. > >From the official rulings and errata: > >More than one Ghoul Retainer employed by a Minion could "use" the same >weapon (that the Minion is not using) at the same time. My apologies. The "no" was meant as a "no" to "Do the Ghoul retainers each have to use a different weapon....?" My mistake, sorry. [ quoted text not captured ]